Billy Porter out of Cabaret 8/20- Page 2

[lopside]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 9:16pm

God knows there's plenty of valid criticism of Porter, especially with regards to his comments, but incessant bullying of performers is a very Broadway specific ugliness, based on poor bootlegs. 

Some of the pile on has genuinely scared me because I've seen young people throw out racist Trump speak like "DEI-hire" and these people are seeking to uphold the integrity of Cabaret of all things. Death of both empathy and literacy. 

There was similarly very ugly vitriol towards Feldstein, and she hadn't even put her foot in her mouth or had been callous like Billy. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 9:19pm

Falsettolands said: "I always felt like the general Broadway sentiment about Beanie was "gosh, she's trying so hard but this is so sad. I wish her well" and it has felt like the sentiment around Billy has been "this performance is offensively bad. I do not wish him well.""

Would have loved it it had been, but it so was not.

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 9:25pm

binau said: "It's funny because there is like 400 upvotes on reddit joking that it's the only time ticket sales will go up without the star. In my opinion, this is just fun joking narrative. The sales tonight look terrible, the sales for the rest of the week look terrible. No one knows who Marisha Wallace or Billy's understudy are, and I don't think they care to know either. A few online theatre nerds paying bargain bottom prices at last-minute does not turn around the box office. The show is doomed."

The show was already as doomed as the Weimer era it covers, but hiring Billy was essentially the burning of the Reichstag. 

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 9:41pm

CoffeeBreak said: "Maybe they will bring back Orville, who doesn't seem to tour until November? Or maybe he and Adam can split the remaining dates?

Either of those two with Marisha would beshows to see."

I believe Orville is filming the Street Fighter movie at the moment.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 10:25pm

lopside said: 

Some of the pile on has genuinely scared me because I've seen young people throw out racist Trump speak like "DEI-hire" and these people are seeking to uphold the integrity ofCabaret of all things. Death of both empathy and literacy.

There was similarly very ugly vitriol towards Feldstein, and she hadn't even put her foot in her mouth or had been callouslike Billy."

Oh, this Billy Porter situation is a prime opportunity for this board to be as anti-Black and racist as it wants to be because now there's a "justifiable excuse." The man has said crappy things and isn't the best Emcee, heard. But the celebratory pile on is a bit overkill. You all claim to love the theater, but you somehow leave your humanity at the door when it comes to the people who perform it. 

It's giving DEH mob which is quite meta. We get it, you hate him, you've made your point. Don't go see the show, but Jesus Christ it's a musical. It's not real life. It's been losing money before Billy joined. I want them to close the show at this point so you all can find something else to complain about. 

 

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/20/25 at 11:42pm

^^ Such a pathetic response. And so predictable from the source.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:16am

joevitus said: "^^ Such a pathetic response. And so predictable from the source."

Pathetic because I'm a POC who doesn't tolerate the bs on this board? I'll be your source any day. And you'll still be the pathetic human talking-ish about a theater star, who for better or worse, gives you a reason to log on and have something to talk about. Get a life. Find it and go live it. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:28am

Pathetic becaue your fake outrage and wild mischaracterization of others on this board is embarassing. 

[Mr. Wormwood]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:35am

I don't love the toxic piling on here and other places but I do think this is different from the Beanie situation in that Beanie shouldn't have been put into the situation (or put herself in the situation) that she clearly wasn't up to no matter how hard she tried or how much work she put in. Whereas, Billy COULD be fine in this role and is not. I put much more blame on Billy's own choices than I did on Beanie.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:49am

joevitus said: "Pathetic becaue your fake outrage and wild mischaracterization of others on this boardis embarassing."

Embarrassing to who? Do you mean your embarrassing spelling? 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:50am

Mr. Wormwood said: "I don't love the toxic piling on here and other places but I do think this is different from the Beanie situation in that Beanie shouldn't have been put into the situation (or put herself in the situation) that she clearly wasn't up to no matter how hard she tried or how much work she put in. Whereas, Billy COULD be fine in this role and is not. I put much more blame on Billy's own choices than I did on Beanie."

I agree. Billy didn't do the work to make his performance land. But he's only allowed to do what the production allows him to do. I blame the creatives as well. 

 

[binau]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 1:44am

I think the creatives can be 'blamed' for casting Billy because no one casts themselves. However, I'm not sure I agree that the issue is as simple a "he is only allowed to do what the production allows him to do". Part of the perception of what is going on here is that it seems like the Director of Billy Porter in Cabaret is not Rebecca Frecknall, but Billy Porter - mainly because Billy Porter's choices do seem to be a complete departure from many of the original choices and concepts. 

And when you get 'a star' sometimes you have to accept what they want to do, otherwise you don't get 'a star'. If these were Rebecca Frecknall's choices I think she should be throwing Billy Porter a bone and put a social media update that Billy is doing what they wanted him to do, because he is the one getting the blame for it!

I wonder if what Billy Porter needed to be successful in the role is a combination of 1. It should have been 6-10 years ago when he was in better vocal health and peak fame 2. Much more heavy handed 'handlers' that can try and lead him to be more careful about what he says in public appearances, reminding him that the goal should be to be liked and forward his career not to speak his mind freely all the time (it sucks, but this is the world we live in) 3. A different production, such as a Jamie Lloyd take or another more radical take that would have helped people accept his choices 4. Not being a replacement and following people like O Peck and A Lambert might also have helped.

On 3, I kind of accept the more I think about it that of course people might find it a little at odds with the setting and character for someone to say 'thank you bitchesessss' and metaphorically snap his fingers about. But the production and context is everything - for example, Nicole Scherzinger is definitely not playing Norma Desmond in the 1950s in Sunset but it works within the context of the production and direction. For this take on the role, he needs a production that lets the audience suspend a little disbelief about the time period and not be taking his performance so literally. 

But I also really think the vocal health is also what's killing him a lot - because if he is going to go for a take on the role that employs a lot of vocal improvisation and vocal pyrotechnics if he doesn't actually have the voice to support it I think it might come across to some not as a dynamic expression of his inner emotional world (which I think was the intention, for example in 'I Don't Care Much') but as someone who is unpleasantly wailing, struggling, straining.

 

[Idiot]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 1:48am

Ensemble1698878795 said: "joevitus said: "^^ Such a pathetic response. And so predictable from the source."

Pathetic because I'm a POC who doesn't tolerate the bs on this board?I'll be your source any day. And you'll still be the pathetic human talking-ish about a theater star, who for better or worse, gives you a reason to log on and have something to talk about.Get a life. Find it and go live it."

To say we aren't board buddies is to state the obvious, but I've come to see that you do passionately believe the things you say.  You're smart a whip and dedicated to your cause and I admire it, even though we will often disagree on what's racist and what's not.  

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 3:19am

Ensemble1698878795 said: "joevitus said: "Pathetic becaue your fake outrage and wild mischaracterization of others on this boardis embarassing."

Embarrassing to who? Do you mean your embarrassing spelling?"

Typos are accidents and no big deal. Responding to any comments you don't like with blanket accusations of "racism" is lazy, pathetic, unwarranted and inaccurate. You'd be lucky if the worst thing you were guilty of was a typo. 

[gibsons2]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 7:08am

Mr. Wormwood said: "I don't love the toxic piling on here and other places but I do think this is different from the Beanie situation in that Beanie shouldn't have been put into the situation (or put herself in the situation) that she clearly wasn't up to no matter how hard she tried or how much work she put in. Whereas, Billy COULD be fine in this role and is not. I put much more blame on Billy's own choices than I did on Beanie."

Infantilizing of Beanie continues. She got the role in FG because of nepotism and her connections. She knew damn well she couldn't sing it. Is it narcissism or complete lack of self awareness? And no, she didn't try all that hard. Amazing that still, anyone but Beanie is blamed for her fiasco.

Updated On: 8/21/25 at 07:08 AM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 10:16am

joevitus said: 

Typos are accidents and no big deal. Responding toany comments you don't like withblanket accusations of"racism"is lazy, pathetic, unwarranted and inaccurate. You'd be lucky if the worst thing you were guilty of was a typo."

I’m sensing a low IQ here. I don’t just respond to any and every comment accusing people of racism. I study patterns and trends on this board. Like where and who grace is given to and who those people look like. 

The best methods of denial are gaslighting and deflection. If you think challenging patterns of racism is “pathetic” it says a lot more about you than I. The more you open your mouth the more you prove my point. 

So we can continue to do this dance or you can gracefully bow out. The “you call everybody/thing racist” is a weak trope and untrue. Ya got something else? Unlike Billy I am here to defend myself and I will. 

[binau]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 10:36am

I often think some of the racism claims are unfair (eg all the arguments we had over the Patti Kecia situation but I don’t want to open that can of worms again). But I have wondered if race is a factor with this pile on. I’m not convinced it is yet because you have to admit Billy has said some controversial things that would annoy anyone regardless of their ethnicity. And there are parts of his performance that people are speaking objectively true about (his voice, a character backstory and interpretation that some - not me personally - feel is at odds with the show). 
 

How do we determine if race is a factor or not? In the Patti/Kecia situation it was easy because Patti was commenting on objective truths that were verified by multiple third party sources (the promotion article on the usually loud speaker system and the box office staff warning audiences in the front row the show is loud). 

In the Billy situation it’s hard to tell if people would be responding differently if he weren’t black. How do we know?

All of the other names discussed of people who experienced humiliation (eg beanie, J Tambour etc). they’re all white. 
 

We don’t want Billy to be having a harder time because he is black. At the same time if we assume it’s related to race when it’s not that’s a whole other set of problems. How do we know?

 

[OhHiii]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 10:45am

Yeah absolving Beanie of blame in the Funny Girl situation is pretty laughable. She knew she couldn't sing that part just like everyone else who worked on those songs with her in rehearsals did. And big yes to the nepotism point. She's essentially an adopted daughter of the Platts. I would be willing to bet that is the sole reason she was not excused from the production. In a rational world, the production would have been postponed to rehearse a new Fanny. But instead they let the story get away from them. So much so someone who actually sat in those marketing meetings leaked how the whole thing went down behind the scenes. Ahhh what a time that was. In hindsight, they missed an opportunity marketing a star-making show-saving moment by putting Julie Benko in the title role full time and letting what happened organically when she started going on regularly happen en masse. It would have been quite special.

Anyway, it sounds like Billy has lost the juice. The turning point for him (his public persona anyway) was so clearly when he got (deserved) praise for Pose. Some take success like that and work to build upon it. Others expect the work to come to them. And now, Billy is a 4th replacement in a Broadway show. So it goes.

Updated On: 8/21/25 at 10:45 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 10:46am

Well, it's not like Porter is unique in having his performance as the Emcee criticized. Eddie Redmayne was widely criticized and mocked for his turn as the Emcee. His Tony performance alone spawned a ton of viral videos and memes making fun of him. But, of course, the production was never more successful than when he was in it. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 11:02am

Off key singing, lousy ad libs, and hostility towards the audience are the sources for the criticism. NONE of this has anything to do with Porter's race, and anyone pretending to do so is the leftist equivalent of Fox News: bombastic accusations meant to stroke the egos of those who don't really want to think. 

Was anyone so lazy as to claim attacks on Beanie in Funny Girl stemmed from anti-semitism? To ask that question is to expose the nonsense directed at most of the people in this thread. 

Updated On: 8/21/25 at 11:02 AM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:26pm

joevitus said: "Off key singing, lousy ad libs, and hostility towards the audience are the sources for the criticism. NONE of this has anything to do with Porter's race, and anyone pretending to do so is the leftist equivalent of Fox News: bombastic accusations meant to stroke the egos of those who don't really want to think.

Was anyone so lazy as to claim attacks on Beanie in Funny Girl stemmed from anti-semitism? To ask that question is to expose the nonsense directed at most of the people in this thread."

Lazy is your favorite word to use and adequately summarizes your argument. You sound MAGA. Whether your brain can comprehend it or not there's inherently built in cultural biases at every angle of the world and that bleeds into theater. Anti-semitism and racism towards Black people are not equally yoked in this country. Another fault of Billy's commentary. But don't try and wash away the racist culture on these threads with a piss poor comparison. 

Three things can be true. Billy made some insensitive comments. He's not the best in the show and these boards can lean into racist territory. I know that's a big pill for you to swallow, but throwing out "the left does blah blah" is yet again another deflection. We're smarter than that, babe. Your president trained you well, but we're not dumb enough to fall for it. 

 

[The Rural Juror]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:38pm

Having not seen the actual performance, something interesting I noticed in one of the audio recordings of "If You Could See Her" is after Billy said the "jewish" line reveal, there was no audible reaction from the audience. Nevertheless, he inserted the "really??" as if the audience had laughed. It is my understanding that Adam started adding that when audiences were laughing at the line. The "really??" seems unnecessary if the audience is silent and seemingly understanding the point. He just seems to not be on the same wavelength as the audience and not really responding to their energy, more just what he assumes will get reaction? 

[binau]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 12:50pm

But can you articulate what/why racism might be happening? I genuinely can’t follow because you keep saying it’s racism without explaining why. If Billy had white skin are you saying he would be treated differently? What do you think would be happening if he had white skin and why do you think that? 

Updated On: 8/21/25 at 12:50 PM

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 1:18pm

Binau, don’t feed the troll. Ensemble169$&!?@ is one of those people who has dedicated their entire world view to one of being an oppressed victim, with every problem in their life being the result of evil white people. It should seriously be classified by psychologists as a personality disorder at this point.

[quizking101]

Posted: 8/21/25 at 1:55pm

joevitus said: "Off key singing, lousy ad libs, and hostility towards the audience are the sources for the criticism. NONE of this has anything to do with Porter's race, and anyone pretending to do so is the leftist equivalent of Fox News: bombastic accusations meant to stroke the egos of those who don't really want to think.