#26
Posted: 6/22/06 at 5:53pm
The Frogs, blech.
A little swash, a bit of buckle - you'll love it more than bread.
Boring Sondheim Shows? — Page 2
#27
Posted: 6/22/06 at 5:59pm
Sondheim shows come off initially as boring since often times, the songs are slow or are melodic. Not much happens in the stories as well. However, as the musicals progress, there are twists & turns, revelations, or climaxes that make the stories, as a whole, very smart and entertaining. When I first saw, Sweeney Todd, I was bored (No Place Like London, Green Finch, Pirelli's Elixir) but by the end, I was captivated.
#28
Posted: 6/22/06 at 6:12pm
"All Sondheim shows take time to get into, and they make you think. Some people don't want to think, they want sh*t pop scores, and a spoon fed plot"
I know this has already been mentioned. But. I think this is totally pee-pee caa-caa. Wanting to think and liking Sondheim are not mutually exclusive. Some people just don't like Sondheim shows and for the most part they have very good reason. Many of the books for Sondheim shows ARE boring... obviously my opinion... The (new) Frogs... Anyone Can Whistle Company... Pacific Overtures... Bounce... Assassins... Not only are they not very exciting... I personally don't think they are all that well written. I think for some of you, not all, but for some of you... you forget about the boring book when you listen to the cast recording... which is completely understandable as I think Sondheim's contribution to those shows is rarely boring. But the shows themselves... well as a few recent revivals have proven... without a strong directorial concept... they fall on their tushie. Not because the score isn't brilliant... but because the book is pedestrian. I love, love, love the score of Pacific Overtures... but it would take a pretty brilliant production to sit through John Weidman's awful book again.
I know this has already been mentioned. But. I think this is totally pee-pee caa-caa. Wanting to think and liking Sondheim are not mutually exclusive. Some people just don't like Sondheim shows and for the most part they have very good reason. Many of the books for Sondheim shows ARE boring... obviously my opinion... The (new) Frogs... Anyone Can Whistle Company... Pacific Overtures... Bounce... Assassins... Not only are they not very exciting... I personally don't think they are all that well written. I think for some of you, not all, but for some of you... you forget about the boring book when you listen to the cast recording... which is completely understandable as I think Sondheim's contribution to those shows is rarely boring. But the shows themselves... well as a few recent revivals have proven... without a strong directorial concept... they fall on their tushie. Not because the score isn't brilliant... but because the book is pedestrian. I love, love, love the score of Pacific Overtures... but it would take a pretty brilliant production to sit through John Weidman's awful book again.
Jesus saves. I spend.
#29
Posted: 6/22/06 at 6:17pm
You can mention those flawed books of Sondheim shows. But don't fail to mention that Sweeney Todd, Sunday In The Park, Into The Woods, and Passion have wonderful books.
#30
Posted: 6/22/06 at 6:20pm
I totally agree... well... I think Passion is kinda difficult. And I love the book for A Little Night Music too. And Gypsy... well that's the perfect book.
kmc
kmc
Jesus saves. I spend.
#31
Posted: 6/22/06 at 6:28pm
You are so right. Everyone has different tastes and the obnoxious attitude espoused by some that if it does not appeal to you, then you are not enough of an intellectual to grasp the "grand picture" of deep thoughts or true artistic merit is quite annoying. Particularly as often as it is used as a bludgeon by many "serious" theatergoers against those who do not immediately fall into line with their high-brow opinion.
I have my issues with both Webber and Sondheim. I think they are both closer in quality then their ardent admirers are willing to admit - although the consensus is to overvalue Sondheim and undervalue Webber. Both have their ups and downs for me.
I like some of the music from Forum, but the chronic stupidity of the play wears me out after a while, even with a fantastic lead. West Side Story is pretty terrific, although I have seen some dismal productions of it. I have loved all incarnations of Sweeney Todd, except for the current revival (a revelation which had some posters implying that I just did not have the intelligence to understand its audacious minimalist vision). I like many of the songs from Follies, but I found the play itself cold and distant - I really did not care about the midlife crises of these shallow characters. Bounce had a few musical highlights, but again I did not find the central characters very compelling, despite the great cast.
I have not had the opportunity to see The Frogs, Sunday in the Park With George, Pacific Overtures, Merrily We Roll Along or Passion as yet. And since John Doyle is staging the revival of Company similar to the ST revival, I will save myself the pain of enduring it.
I have my issues with both Webber and Sondheim. I think they are both closer in quality then their ardent admirers are willing to admit - although the consensus is to overvalue Sondheim and undervalue Webber. Both have their ups and downs for me.
I like some of the music from Forum, but the chronic stupidity of the play wears me out after a while, even with a fantastic lead. West Side Story is pretty terrific, although I have seen some dismal productions of it. I have loved all incarnations of Sweeney Todd, except for the current revival (a revelation which had some posters implying that I just did not have the intelligence to understand its audacious minimalist vision). I like many of the songs from Follies, but I found the play itself cold and distant - I really did not care about the midlife crises of these shallow characters. Bounce had a few musical highlights, but again I did not find the central characters very compelling, despite the great cast.
I have not had the opportunity to see The Frogs, Sunday in the Park With George, Pacific Overtures, Merrily We Roll Along or Passion as yet. And since John Doyle is staging the revival of Company similar to the ST revival, I will save myself the pain of enduring it.
#32
Posted: 6/22/06 at 6:44pm
The Company revival is much more low key... in my opinion... than the Sweeny one. I think it's much more in keeping with the original intention of the piece... where as I think the Sweeney revival just sort of invented a whole new mythology that doesn't make much practical sense or have much to do with the plot(though I'm not sure if this was John Doyle's idea or perhaps one or two overcreative cast members... who are oft quoted on BWW.com)... I think they production of Company really deepens what the show is saying. Don't be put off... is what I'm saying.
kmc
kmc
Jesus saves. I spend.
#33
Posted: 6/22/06 at 7:37pm
I love Sondheim shows, but there are a few moments that bore me.
For example, there are parts of ITW that bore me, mostly the dialogue, also a few songs such as It Takes Two, and parts of So Happy.
Though it is my favorite show, No Place like London in Sweeney Todd always somewhat bores me, especially after the thrilling Ballad of Sweeney Todd.
The bginning of the Ballad of guiteau and most of the Gun Song in Assassins bore me.
However, most of the Sondheim shows I like keep me entertained and attentive. These moments I mentioned are boring, but the interesting and entertaining moments in his shows far outweight the boring moments.
For example, there are parts of ITW that bore me, mostly the dialogue, also a few songs such as It Takes Two, and parts of So Happy.
Though it is my favorite show, No Place like London in Sweeney Todd always somewhat bores me, especially after the thrilling Ballad of Sweeney Todd.
The bginning of the Ballad of guiteau and most of the Gun Song in Assassins bore me.
However, most of the Sondheim shows I like keep me entertained and attentive. These moments I mentioned are boring, but the interesting and entertaining moments in his shows far outweight the boring moments.
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
#34
Posted: 6/22/06 at 7:39pm
We've got a great production of Sunday in the Park running in London -
www.sundayinthepark.co.uk
www.sundayinthepark.co.uk
#35
Posted: 6/22/06 at 8:08pm
Frontrowcentre, you hit the nail on the head for me.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#36
Posted: 6/22/06 at 8:15pm
One of the only Sondheim shows I dont like is Follies. I dont know why it just isn't enertaining to me.
My Fav: The Frogs!
"Words and Music. I love them. And especially what happens when you put them together into songs. And sing them, in a large building, in a central part of town, as part of a play, with a lot of people listening, who have all paid a great deal to get in." - Edward Kleban, composer/lyricist of A Class Act and lyricist of A Chorus Line
My Fav: The Frogs!
"Words and Music. I love them. And especially what happens when you put them together into songs. And sing them, in a large building, in a central part of town, as part of a play, with a lot of people listening, who have all paid a great deal to get in." - Edward Kleban, composer/lyricist of A Class Act and lyricist of A Chorus Line
"I'm tellin' you, the only times I really feel the presence of God are when I'm having sex and during a great Broadway musical." - Nathan Lane - Jeffrey
Updated On: 6/22/06 at 08:15 PM
#37
Posted: 6/22/06 at 9:52pm
For the record, Sondheim didn't write the music to WEST SIDE STORY or GYPSY. That would be Leonard Bernstein. Sondheim was merely the lyricist.
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
#38
Posted: 6/22/06 at 9:56pm
"Sondheim" and "boring" don't belong in the same sentence.
But if I had to pick, Passion.
But I'm not a deep person, so I didn't appreciate it as much.
But if I had to pick, Passion.
But I'm not a deep person, so I didn't appreciate it as much.
#39
Posted: 6/22/06 at 10:00pm
For the record - Jule Styne wrote the music for GYPSY.
#40
Posted: 6/22/06 at 10:07pm
I stand corrected, Jon! Incidentally, is it me or does Sondheim fanatic = theater snob?
Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
Updated On: 6/23/06 at 10:07 PM
#41
Posted: 6/22/06 at 10:33pm
Sunday in the Park with George bored me to tears. There. I said it. The only part in the entire show that I found mildly entertaining was the beautiful Act 1 finale.
A musical must be entertaining or else it is not a good musical (same goes for straight plays, literature, or film). Excellent musicals are both entertaining AND thought-provoking. The problem with many of Sondheim's shows (ESPECIALLY Sunday) is that they aim to be thought-provoking FIRST, and if they happen to be entertaining, bully for the audience! That drives me bananas.
Sweeney is damn entertaining stuff, Sunday is not.
A musical must be entertaining or else it is not a good musical (same goes for straight plays, literature, or film). Excellent musicals are both entertaining AND thought-provoking. The problem with many of Sondheim's shows (ESPECIALLY Sunday) is that they aim to be thought-provoking FIRST, and if they happen to be entertaining, bully for the audience! That drives me bananas.
Sweeney is damn entertaining stuff, Sunday is not.
#42
Posted: 6/22/06 at 10:41pm
The problem with many of Sondheim's shows (ESPECIALLY Sunday) is that they aim to be thought-provoking FIRST, and if they happen to be entertaining, bully for the audience!
I don't agree at all. I've been entertained (and intruiged) by various productions of Sweeney Todd, Assassins, ...Forum, Follies, Anyone Can Whistle. I can see why some would be bored by Sunday in the Park, but the others?
I don't agree at all. I've been entertained (and intruiged) by various productions of Sweeney Todd, Assassins, ...Forum, Follies, Anyone Can Whistle. I can see why some would be bored by Sunday in the Park, but the others?
Updated On: 6/22/06 at 10:41 PM
#43
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:03pm
For the record, Sondheim didn't write the music to WEST SIDE STORY or GYPSY. That would be Leonard Bernstein. Sondheim was merely the lyricist.
stagemanager2, did you mean to say "solely"?
stagemanager2, did you mean to say "solely"?
#44
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:08pm
freeadmission, it may have been the SITPWG production that you saw.
The one I saw with an opera singer lead in Honolulu took my breath away. Done right, it's amazing. The director was one of the most talented we have in Hawaii, John Rampage, and he confided to me that directing it was the hardest thing he'd ever done in his life.
The one I saw with an opera singer lead in Honolulu took my breath away. Done right, it's amazing. The director was one of the most talented we have in Hawaii, John Rampage, and he confided to me that directing it was the hardest thing he'd ever done in his life.
#45
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:21pm
"Saturday Night" is pretty boring.
However, that show doesn't hold much weight in his catalogue.
Any show can be boring if it's directed badly...this is a pointless thread.
Also, I don't think "Passion" is quite as deep as a lot of people seem to think - it is simply about love - something so simple and beautiful and personal to everyone. I'm staggered that so many people find it off-putting.
In fact, all of Sondheim's shows may have extreme depth to them, but they're all built off of a very simple unifying idea or plot/theme. Three-year olds will be thrilled at "Into the Woods" and not understand the real meaning of what's underneath. As said in a recent interview with the director of the Mernier "Sunday" revival, at the core of the show is a simple love story. "Passion", as stated, is also a simple love story. "Sweeney" is about a man out for revenge. "Company" is about a single man with crazy married friends. That's it. There's tons of depth underneath these simple, straightforward plots, but you're not a "deep person" you don't have to let the depth bog down your enjoyment of what can be seen as a simple musical comedy. This theory doesn't hold up for all of his shows ("Pacific Overtures" and "Assasins" come to mind) but I still just find it difficult to see why so many people find him off-putting when his work can be viewed as simple just as it can be viewed as complex.
It seems like people have this pre-concieved notion that it's "too artistic" for them before they even walk into the theatre.
However, that show doesn't hold much weight in his catalogue.
Any show can be boring if it's directed badly...this is a pointless thread.
Also, I don't think "Passion" is quite as deep as a lot of people seem to think - it is simply about love - something so simple and beautiful and personal to everyone. I'm staggered that so many people find it off-putting.
In fact, all of Sondheim's shows may have extreme depth to them, but they're all built off of a very simple unifying idea or plot/theme. Three-year olds will be thrilled at "Into the Woods" and not understand the real meaning of what's underneath. As said in a recent interview with the director of the Mernier "Sunday" revival, at the core of the show is a simple love story. "Passion", as stated, is also a simple love story. "Sweeney" is about a man out for revenge. "Company" is about a single man with crazy married friends. That's it. There's tons of depth underneath these simple, straightforward plots, but you're not a "deep person" you don't have to let the depth bog down your enjoyment of what can be seen as a simple musical comedy. This theory doesn't hold up for all of his shows ("Pacific Overtures" and "Assasins" come to mind) but I still just find it difficult to see why so many people find him off-putting when his work can be viewed as simple just as it can be viewed as complex.
It seems like people have this pre-concieved notion that it's "too artistic" for them before they even walk into the theatre.
#46
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:21pm
I found The Frogs to be really bad. I liked the first few songs, but it went downhill from there.
I think Pacific Overture is just so-so. I really like "Someone in a Tree" though.
And finally- I don't know why, but I find Sunday in the Park with George just boring. I find the first few songs intolerable. Once "Finishing the Hat" rolls along, it gets better. Some of the second act songs are quite touching.
I think Pacific Overture is just so-so. I really like "Someone in a Tree" though.
And finally- I don't know why, but I find Sunday in the Park with George just boring. I find the first few songs intolerable. Once "Finishing the Hat" rolls along, it gets better. Some of the second act songs are quite touching.
#47
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:24pm
I've never seen SITPWG live (you would be astonished at the small number of musicals I've actually seen), but I saw the Bernadette/Patinkin(sp). I was wholly unentertained.
And don't say, "It was only because you saw it on video, not live! It's so much better live!" Other shows that I've seen only on video/DVD/TV are Sweeney Todd and Piazza, both of which entertained me immensely . . . non-liveness has nothing to do with it's inherent entertaining quality (though I'm sure every piece of theatre is better live).
And don't say, "It was only because you saw it on video, not live! It's so much better live!" Other shows that I've seen only on video/DVD/TV are Sweeney Todd and Piazza, both of which entertained me immensely . . . non-liveness has nothing to do with it's inherent entertaining quality (though I'm sure every piece of theatre is better live).
#48
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:48pm
i'll be honest: i'm kinda bored with sondheim... let me burn if i'm wrong. i find i can't really get into them.
::bust a move::
#49
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:52pm
"For the record, Sondheim didn't write the music to WEST SIDE STORY or GYPSY. That would be Leonard Bernstein. Sondheim was merely the lyricist. "
It's awesome that someone would try to correct someone and make an error in the correction. I love it. And merely? Really? That's kind of understating things. Also, I'm not sure anyone on this thread didn't know that Sondheim didn't write the music to those shows.
kmc
It's awesome that someone would try to correct someone and make an error in the correction. I love it. And merely? Really? That's kind of understating things. Also, I'm not sure anyone on this thread didn't know that Sondheim didn't write the music to those shows.
kmc
Jesus saves. I spend.
#50
Posted: 6/22/06 at 11:54pm
Boring isn't the word that comes to mind.
I always get a headache listening to his scores, so I'd say painful before boring.
I always get a headache listening to his scores, so I'd say painful before boring.
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