CAROUSEL at the Lyric Opera in Chicago — Page 13

Well I hope it's true.

how did you know that?

After seeing it multiple times my sense was that maybe the operator was inconsistent, so on some nights it felt a bit awkwardly slow while at other performances it was a better speed and was emotionally charged. In all cases, though, it served to move the transition into magicalness (is that a word?) to earlier in the show so by the time the the starkeeper arrived that felt very natural, which was a great improvement over every other production I've seen. So even on the awkward nights I felt there was a nice payoff for that choice in the end.

And while I agree Ms. Grave's June can be improved, her Never Walk Alone was stunning, so once again I felt that there was a significant payoff in the end for that casting choice.

Updated On: 4/26/15 at 06:26 AM

Saw the show Friday night. While I agree that it is produced and performed beautifully, that can't excuse the content of the piece. This show's theme of domestic abuse is deplorable. I can't believe it is getting so much praise. It should be put away to not be performed again. I am glad we didn't take our 13 year old daughter. I never want her to hear that it is ok to be hit by someone that loves you. I can't believe the theatre community still embraces this show. Yes I know it was written at a different time, but that doesn't make it ok.

I don't think Carousel endorses domestic violence, or that Rent promotes heroine addiction, or that Spring Awakening endorses teen suicide, or that Sweeney Todd promotes cannibalism, or that South Pacific promotes racism. I think the show explores ending cycles of abuse through the obviously-flawed tragic anti-hero of Billy. Julie's line about it being possible for a hit to feel like a kiss needs to be overheard by Billy in order for him to finally see firsthand how badly he warped those he loved and to motivate him to try to make amends from beyond the grave.

I also don't think the subject of domestic violence should be taboo, since recent elevator video demonstrates that the issue is still highly relevant. And honestly, there are many people alive today who clearly understood that parents who spanked them did so out of love, however wrong their actions may have been.

In my opinion Carousel does not promote domestic violence, but it DOES promote discussion of the subject, which was exactly the type of art we most enjoyed exposing our 13-year-old kids to.

Humans are complex, and R&H dared to tackle taboo subjects. Good for them and, it seems to me, good for all of us.

Updated On: 4/26/15 at 06:39 PM

"This show's theme of domestic abuse is deplorable."

That is not the theme of Carousel. It's an offstage incident we're told about - that Billy once hit Julie. It's a story of love and redemption.

Maybe I fell asleep and dreamt most of the show, because the show I saw at the Lyric referred to being hit by someone that loves you so often it felt like a theme. Maybe it was the boring staging and lifeless choreography that didn't help me focus on something else. I, personally, will not visit a production of Carousel again.

I studied Eugene O'Neill extensively during my undergrad, so I'm not a stranger to heavier shows. But yes, not every show is for everyone. Clearly this one is not for me.

I saw the show last night and figure I need to start with the script itself (and the discussion that I see has been taking place here), as I had a hard time moving beyond the piece as a whole.

I’ve seen “Carousel” once before when I was much younger. I didn’t remember much about it, despite not caring for it, but I was excited to revisit it as an adult. I tend to prefer dramatic musicals that tackle heavy, difficult topics so the inclusion of domestic violence within a musical is nothing I would balk at, but rather would welcome the inclusion of an important (and relevant) topic. And, obviously, I walked into the theatre taking into account the year in which the piece was created and the society at the time. But, even with the historical context in mind, I had a very hard time swallowing last night’s production, based on the show itself.

First, beyond the discussion of domestic violence, it’s hard for me to understand how this is still considered a great musical. Maybe for its time, but for it to still be highly respected is beyond my understanding. I understand everyone’s revere for the score, yes. But, I found the overall story dull, the characters not fleshed out enough, and the dialogue clunky.

In terms of the domestic violence, I think the issue I had with it is the discrepancy between what the show is trying to say and what actually comes off.

I agree the show is never saying that domestic violence is right. What I do think the show ultimately presents to its audience (no matter how much it’s not intended to), however, is that, while it’s never okay to abuse your partner, it can be excusable for the right reasons. As long as you regret it, it’s forgivable. As long as you truly love them, your partner should understand it had nothing to do with her/him.

Do I think this is what the creators intended to say? No. However, as written, I do think that this is largely what comes off from the script.

A previous poster mentioned this in regards to Julie’s line:

Julie's line about it being possible for a hit to feel like a kiss needs to be overheard by Billy in order for him to finally see firsthand how badly he warped those he loved and to motivate him to try to make amends from beyond the grave.

Yet, without reading that, it never would have occurred to me, based off of the script, that this was the intention of the inclusion of Julie’s line. Because, after Billy witnesses her saying this, his making amends and redemption beyond the grave only consists of literally encouraging his daughter to listen to the man speaking and for Julie to feel his love. For me, it’s not enough to show that he truly realizes everything he did. It’s also difficult to swallow this ending because we never really see Billy treating Julie well at all before he dies. Julie mentions at one point that Billy has done so much for her and I immediately thought, “What?” I don’t think there is enough true exploration of Billy or his and Julie’s love in the first act for his small moments of redemption to be enough (or for us to actually see that those small acts of redemption are motivated by a deep understanding and regret of his actions on Earth). If the inclusion of Julie’s line about a hit feeling like a kiss is meant to be the catalyst for Billy’s realization, then that needs to be extremely clear. And, no matter how much an actor and director can try to show that this is what is happening, for me, that is too extreme a line to be said without Billy directly addressing it and denouncing how wrong it is for Julie to feel that. What’s written as his realization and redemption in the script, for me, is not enough. As it came off last night, I got the reaction that he just felt so grateful that Julie understood him and he realized how good a woman she is. Not that he realized the extent to which he emotionally abused her.

I’d like to believe that it only came off this way in this particular production, but I really don’t believe there is enough in the written script to combat how such an intense line like that. And, while I’m skeptical that much can be done, it doesn’t seem like, in this production, Ashford took stock of how this piece would be received by modern-day audiences and how to ensure that we take away what he wants us to.

As for the production itself, the quality is top-notch, but there were a few disappointments. Last year, seeing “The Sound of Music,” I admit that I enjoyed the opulence of that production and was hoping for a similar grandiosity in “Carousel,” but found myself left wanting. The sets were a bit boring and a tad dreary. The lighting, however, was gorgeous and I felt was the biggest contributor to any beautiful stage pictures created. My favorite aesthetic moment, by far, was the constructed carousel during the ballet.

I was disappointed in the choreography (although the ballet was beautiful). A cast of gorgeous dancers, yet they didn’t have much to do and, when they did, the choreography was clunky; in particular, the basket of clams dance in the first act. I actually felt bad for those poor performers, who clearly were struggling with awkward choreography with the clunky basket prop.

The cast is really excellent and everyone’s voice is wonderful (although Graves does seem quite out of place and I agree with the diction issues for “June&rdquo.

Jenn Gambatese, to me, brought the most heart and life to the production. Such a sincere and engaged performer – in the past few years, every role I have seen her in she has just brought a different and wonderful quality to each of her characters. It was a completely joy to watch her onstage.

Steven Pasquale was also excellent. After seeing him in “Bridges” last year, I will quickly flock to anything he is in. That voice is just a gift to get to hear in person. “Soliloquy” was an absolute highlight.

As a lifelong feminist I enjoyed the complexity presented in both the show and in this production. While it's easy to take Julie's single line out of context, why not instead focus on Carrie saying "Did you hit him back? I would have!" Or Carrie saying "You should leave him. I would. He's a bad 'un.", or saying "You're better off without him" only moments after his suicide and Julie quickly agreeing? Or the community of women who quickly rally to support both Julie and Carry when they need it?

Billy is clearly a mess. He can't control his anger, he won't communicate his feelings verbally, he gambles, he drinks, he doesn't find work. That's key to this tragic story.

And one could easily argue given today's norms that Mr. Snow is perhaps even more abusive in getting Carrie pregnant 7 times when she doesn't seem all too enthusiastic about it (maybe there really is "nothing so bad for a woman as a man who thinks he's good").

I have always found Carousel (with the exception of a recent terrible production I saw in a different state) to be a beautiful, tragic and complex love story, not unlike the cruel, crazy beautiful world in which we all live.

As for the redemption aspect, the show does follow the Christian theology that sins can be forgiven if there is true repentance, but that forgiveness does not mean that Billy's actions were in any way justifiable in the first place.

My argument is that I don’t see enough “true repentance” in the show. He is told that he has to do more before he can be accepted into heaven. I get the idea the creators were working toward – that he does fully see his wrong-doing. My issue is that I don’t actually see that through Billy at all.

And, I’m certainly not forgetting the moments (mostly Carrie’s lines) where the show blatantly talks about how Billy’s hitting Julie is bad. Which is why I never thought that the show was trying to say domestic violence was okay to do. I take issue with the execution of their handling of the subject, where I think it allows way too much room for audiences to think that the show is saying that, while it’s never okay to actually do, there can be understandable reasons why the offender did that wrong.

And, Julie’s single line is not the only thing I am taking into consideration - it’s just the culmination of everything we see throughout the show. Other than the moment when she tells him she is pregnant, he has been treating her horribly the entire relationship that the audience has seen or been told about. If the show really wants to look at the complexities and trials of relationships and the idea that humans are not “all bad” or “all good,” then I wish the show had included more of the ups and downs throughout. I feel we only see how terrible Billy is. And, I think we are supposed to feel at least somewhat bad for Billy at the end – at least in the way that he couldn’t figure out how to properly treat those he loved. Yet, with all of his horrible actions throughout the entire show, seeing just how emotionally and mentally wrecked he made Julie and his daughter, even 15 years after his death, and then not really actually doing much in his “last chance” moments on Earth – how can we, as audience members, be expected to feel anything for him? The whole time we see this man who we really see only bad from, including how he treats Julie from the start of their relationship. Yet, the show gives HIM the redemption moment at the end; a redemption moment that does not seem deserved by him nor earned in any way, shape, or form.

Again, I don’t think the show or creators are actually trying to justify the hitting. But, in the execution of the writing, Julie’s line comes off as an understanding of Billy and forgiveness of his hitting because it wasn’t really about her. I went with a group of 6 people who I often see theatre with. Ages ranging from mid-twenties to mid-sixties. All active theatre-goers, always with intellectual conversation afterward. To all 6 of us last night, Julie’s “a hit can feel like a kiss” line came off as making it understandable that Billy hit her, as if he was off the hook for what he did because she knew he didn’t mean it. If we 6 all had that reaction, then I guarantee there were many others in the audience that did, too. And, THAT is the issue I take with it. I don’t think R&H meant to endorse domestic violence – not at all. But, I think their execution of storytelling in “Carousel” can come off poorly.

One more comment, and the above message was getting too long to edit/add to it (sorry)!

Spoilers (discussion of ending):

I do kind of agree that ultimately Billy didn't really do anything that Louise or Julie could consciously detect (i.e. he didn't make himself visible or audible to them in the end scene) even though they seem to have "heard" him and reacted to what he was saying when he encouraged Louise to listen to the speaker and Julie to know that she loved him.

To me, this feels very much like real life. When someone hurts us and then dies, we don't get to have them come back and interact with us for a day 15 years later and apologize to us for how they have hurt us. All that we really can do is to "know that they loved us" and remember that we can stand on our own without being brought down by their failures, and use that knowledge/insight to move on with our lives. So to me, the ending stayed very true to real life in that way.

The idea of 'sensing' the person's presence telling us to listen to those messages or assuring us that they loved us, as was shown in the show's ending, is something that we would be feeling only on the inside, much like Louise and Julie seem to be doing in the show. That aspect of the story to me rings very true.

The idea that Billy earns redemption for it is, as Steve721 has pointed out, basically just the Christian theology onstage. The implication is that he has realized that he did harm to those he loved and feels bad for it and wants to repent and help them to get over it, and that alone would redeem him in Christianity, without him having to make concrete amends. Obviously, that is an artifact of the idea of the afterlife - if his consciousness is really gone after he dies, then of course the character himself wouldn't actually have a change of heart after dying, and any redemption then would be created only in the minds of those who loved him, who would basically look back and reflect ("know") that he loved them, and feel that he is forgiven in their minds, perhaps as part of their own healing process of letting go and moving on.