CARRIE Reading? — Page 12

I cant agree at all that the show sounds less sophisticated now at all, i think it plays far more grown up.

I think shows like Spring Awakening are dealing first and formost with teen angst though, wghere as i think Carrie is more about Carrie herself, the rest of the kids are kinda a backdrop to her troubles.

And dont tell me you never wore leather to a burger bar hahaha

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I'd love to get a PM as well

I'm not saying CARRIE should sound like those shows, but the new material and their new concept of Sue as a narrator gives the show more than ever a rather precious feel - that makes the entire production feel like a musical for Theatreworks USA or for middle school kids.

The show believe it or not sounds less sophisticated now than it did in 1988

If this is true, I can't see the show succeeding commercially or artistically, it won't close on opening night, but it'll be yet another fiasco.

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Just to clarify what I meant by stating the show sounds less sophisticated now than it did in 1988:

The writers began working on a musical of CARRIE in 1983, the era of FAME and FOOTLOOSE. At the time, the pop aspects of the score felt contemporary.

By 1988 there seems to have been a push (probably in the wake of PHANTOM and LES MIZ) for CARRIE to be almost completely sung through. The problem was that they simply cut the dialogue and didn't replace any of it with sung passages explaining plot - so the story in 1988 was completely lost - however, it did mask the basic fact that in 1983 (and again now) the writers are approaching this in the style of a book musical that feels like ti was written in about 1965. And now, of course, the music is so dated, they have created a framing device to actually place the show in 1984.

I think a composing team a little more rooted in the music of today would probably succeed in better musicalizing the teen sections of the score.

As I've said before, I don't believe the writing team is going for satire or camp - I don't think they have the skill for it. I think they are writing more of what they know how to write - is just out of touch with current music and the development of teen themes in musical theatre.

Kids -- there is nothing to PM. I'm sure at some point a recording of the workshop will start floating around but as of right now its not out there.

I have a feeling the PM thing is nothing more than a cruel joke.

I'm freaking terrified that this will become another Legally Blonde.

Ok, I think you need to calm down a little bit. Now matter how much we hem and haw and wish and hope, it will be whatever the creators want it to be. That said, I really don't see any evidence that it specifically resembles Legally Blonde in any way, no matter how much you want to obsess on that point. I think there are enough of us that would like this to succeed to send enough positive vibes out there, but even amongst the show's fans, there will be disagreements regarding how it should be changed. AND THAT IS OK. Personally, I love the melodies of In, Dream On, Don't Waste the Moon and Heaven and I'm sad to see some of it cut. But if it's cut, it's cut and I'm hoping the new material will be even better. But for God's sake, I'm not going to panic or be scared and anxious about what happens to the show (which could very well be nothing from here on out). And I've been an obsessed fan WAY longer than you. Have fun with the discussion and speculation, but you might want to ease up on your fear that others may show a little enthusiasm for a view that is different than yours. If their opinion proves to be a majority, then perhaps it is the best direction for the show, rather than the one direction you think it should take.

There were LOADS of people who HATED the light touch given to the adaptation of Wicked, but looking back, it was the right decision.

I don't want this to sell out. I'd rather it do lackluster financially and be a success d'estime, a la Sondheim...

Not every flop will be a Follies. Very few, in fact, are noted as artistically or critically successful. And there have been some really great financial hits in the last century as well.

ETA: Pointless to state the obvious.

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Updated On: 12/1/09 at 03:15 PM

Matt, if you like those songs from the original and feel they were the appropriate way to musicalize CARRIE, you will probably greatly enjoy the changes and the new material (which musically does resembles LEGALLY BLONDE, so I think thats probably where that observation started).

I think the 'lighter touch' works for WICKED because the creative team was united in their vision for the material. They knew what kind of musical they wanted to create, what they wanted the experience to be for the audience, and who the show was going to be marketed to.

At the end of the day, the over-riding issue is that the creative team of CARRIE apparently still doesn't know what or who they are trying to appeal this musical to.

If they want it to be lighter, and appeal to teens and their families - than they need to cut the scene in the shower in which Carrie has tampons thrown at her, probably need to cut way back on the religious undertones, because a lot of Christian tourists from the midwest would be offended by it, and probably need to not have CARRIE kill everyone by fire and electrocution.

If they want to write something that appeals to college students and kids in their 20s than they need to make the material for the kids feel timely, make the music feel contemporary, need to up the scare factor and make this entire enterprise feel cool and slick.

If they are going for a sophisticated audience that patronizes Sondheim and Tony Kushner, they need to cut the teenie bopper numbers and write an adult, lyric and witty musical in line with the original subject matter.

If they want to write a parody - something campy like XANADU, then they need to get a smart director, a good dramaturg and be willing to let their serious numbers like "Eve was Weak" enter 'no wire hangar' territory.

Instead, the creative team is trying something in between. It won't work. It hasn't worked. It never will work. Not as a musical.

What I keep coming back to is the film. In the communtary on the dvd, the director/producers pride themselves on creating a film that was spooky and real but that became terrifying in a violent twist in the final 30 minutes.

That formula is great in film. Its great in a medium where special effects can completely change the experience of an audience in a split second.

Musicals don't operate in that way. They require a skill in story telling and style that takes the audience on a very carefully planned journey (see my note above about WICKED).

Sondheim was astute in his explanation of SWEENEY TODD (again yes, I'm bringing it up). He describes how important it was from the very instant that the audience heard the very first chord of music that they understand that this was to be a scary, frightening experience.

It wouldn't have worked for SWEENEY to have opened with happy sunny London with everyone bright and doing numbers from OLIVER until suddenly throats start getting slashed in the end of the first act. Audiences never would have bought it.

Nor will they buy a production of CARRIE in which the opening number now sounds like the beginning of HAIRSPRAY.

Matt, I agree there isn't really anything to worry about, because I doubt sincerely that this will ever come back to Broadway. It makes absolutely no sense right now from a financial model and I would be floored if the producers were able to sell this to a team of investors in its current vision.

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 03:37 PM

Well, Matt, that is where script and story telling devices come into play.

Right now, CARRIE actually opens with shots of all the teens waking up in different houses singing IN (please tell me how this could possibly be staged as anything other than camp) and then moves to the volley ball game.

However, - the only reason there is a volleyball game is because there is one in the movie and the creative team is extremely reliant on that film script for this project.

The book doesn't begin with a volleyball game. It begins with a bunch of unnerving point of view reports about an 'unexplained' incident in Maine. Carrie's powers, her background, her mother and the mystery surrounding her story are the entry into the story.They are explained before the scene in the showers. Before we see any of the other kids.

For the record, the movie script was also supposed to begin this way and was only changed when the special effects budget was cut.

That in itself is a clue to me that beginning this musical with an immediate (and trite) emphasis on the teens and peer pressure is not necessarily the best way to open a musical version of the story.

And I still think the point isn't for us to empathize with the kids because they have pimples and split ends. We should be happy to see them burn in hell. That's the whole macabre fun of the story. Its the whole fantasy played out thing we all secretly thought of during our high school days that gives CARRIE its wit and punch.

Updated On: 12/1/09 at 04:58 PM

However, - the only reason there is a volleyball game is because there is one in the movie and the creative team is extremely reliant on that film script for this project.

Good point. I like the idea of a prologue that provides some of the back story in the opening of the novel, but I still believe there needs to be the undercurrent of the everyday teen life that is required to move the narrative along. I think I may pull out the novel again tonight because I remember some things Sue said that to me, really rooted out the true horror of the tale. The fact that they were kids and acted like kids, just like everywhere else in the country, but paid the ultimate price for their behavior. And given the events of Columbine, it only makes the story more poignant and somewhat prophetic. I'm not suggesting using the Columbine angle, but it will be in the back of people's minds, regardless.

People on here now are already writing this off without actually hearing it which is just odd.

No, that's pretty much the norm on the main board.

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I've just read this thread, and as someone who saw the original three times in previews, I find the changes fascinating. They certainly seem on track. The key is the lyrics. Even the blander songs in the original might've worked in context with sharper -- let's just say it: better -- words to sing. The banalities just rang out and sounded amateurish. I agree with the "I'm Not Alone" commentary, because truly the inane words did it in.

But providing a narrator allows some critical information to be provided, even if via the oldest and baldest conceit. Why not? The novel worked because it's POV shifted, allowing King to come at his tale from multiple perspectives and time zones. That's not possible in a musical, but we need a way in, we need access. I'd accept the narrator cliche just to have the story told with more texture and telling detail.

I've often wondered if about one possible solution might marry the two 'halves' of this tale -- to put at least one musical motif in the show that is sung by both Carrie/Margaret and some other characters. Some binding melodic line, part of a song, or full verse that unites the disparate components. On that point, does Carrie get a verse of "In?" There's a start. It grounds her at least partially in the world of the others. (Maybe that's answered above.)

If Carrie sang some portion of the teen world music to her mother, she'd be 'bringing it in the house,' and we might feel the worlds clash in real time, musically as the characters clash.

Just a thought. I have waited for a revival, and this thread s certainly a thrilling appetite whetting preview.

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I've often wondered if about one possible solution might marry the two 'halves' of this tale -- to put at least one musical motif in the show that is sung by both Carrie/Margaret and some other characters.

Actually, there was one instance of this in the original score, but it was fleeting and not so astutely used. The Evening Prayers melody is later sung by the entire ensemble as the school's Alma Mater when Carrie is crowned Prom Queen.

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Updated On: 12/1/09 at 06:02 PM

I really like your idea of using In for Carrie, especially when she tells her mother Tommy asked her to the prom. Using a darker arrangement, it could make interesting counterpoint to the feud that ensues when ultimately, Carrie uses her mother's own melody against Margaret to finish out the scene, holding the power over her mother for the first time. I always felt that musically, the final scene to the first act was quite brilliant in how they traded off the melody and counter-melody.

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All I am going to say right this moment is that MB and Dantes are superstars and this MAY end up being one of the best, if not the very best, threads BWW has ever seen. Keep it up fellas!

And let's talk about the prologue/epilogue of "Our Father" at some point... I'm not sure if it works as well as it should, but again, the first and last scenes depend so much on the visuals that I feel it could either come off as a chilling, surrealistic limbo or a newsreport/powerpoint presentation gone bad (in more ways than one!)... and also I'd like to hear thoughts about the introduction of Margaret singing with the radio chorus as opposed to being introduced in a solo. I think it is detrimental, though linking Margaret with the real world, or at least the real world as portrayed on a Christian radio station, from the get-go is a good idea and having her then emerge in solo voice may be the gentlest way to present her. Although, it seems as though Margaret sings in the first "Our Father", albeit from off-stage, which I think is an absolutely brilliant move. How about have the song slowly build by having Sue sing first, solo, then the voices of the survivors join in as they congregate on stage, and then by the big swell in the music have the voices of all those who perished join in from off-stage. I say Carrie and Margaret should not be noticeable at this point in the choral structure, but maybe Carrie alone (offstage) could sing "Amen" at the end of it as her prom picture comes onscreen/on-stage. I think at the end in the reprise of "Our Father" Sue could begin it and then we could hear the voice of Carrie and/or Margaret sing from off-stage while the powerpoint/newscast plays the prom powerpoint. At the very end of the song after a pause Carrie alone could sing "Amen." THEN a lightning flash and blackout. I think it could work. Either way, I'm just thinking out loud...

P