CARRIE Reading?- Page 10
CARRIE Reading?
#225re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/29/09 at 9:41pm
I know we won't get a PM from here. Because it's illegal. And we're all good people. And we wouldn't even want to know for a second where we'd get it from via PM either.
I meant that asking here is not going to get you anything at all. It's too much of a risk to give that out here. You are going to need to do some foot work to get to it.
Jemstar86
Swing Joined: 5/11/04
#227re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 8:45amI am so excited this reading happened and I really hope it leads to a revival of this vastly underrated show. If only there was a way to hear the reading.... I know I found my copies of the broadway CDs on ebay... or uploaded on to a web site or something ... wish I could find them that way.
#228re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 8:48amIs someone passing out PMs? If so I'd like a PM. Just sayin'.
bwaylvsong
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/28/05
#230re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 11:23am
Alright what concerns me after hearing more in depth what changes were made for this new workshop:
CARRIE is supposed to be scary. Its based on a Stephen King novel. The success of any adaptation of it is going to rise and fall on how well its able to unnerve and frighten an audience. This is an even greater challenge when you take into account that what made King's book unusual and salient was that the 'events' of CARRIE supposedly affected a real small town in Maine.
King never lost sight of that, but his writing was also sophisticated - and adult, even when writing of the kids of the town. It was their inner secrets (Sue's shame at being devirgined, her pregnancy, guilt, the excitement of thrills at another person's expense) that he spent careful time on. Its a major, deceptive point and one of the things that the writers of the musical continue to miss...
When CARRIE premiered on Broadway it was a baffle fest because the writers had beautifully captured the eerie, co-dependent tone of King's material between Margaret and Carrie and yet surrounded their reality by a ridiculous campy 'BYE BYE BIRDIE' goes to the prom sensibility in the writing of everything else. (Terry Hands bizarre original staging of course just has to be dismissed as it arguably had little to do with the story being told).
So now we have a reading/workshop of CARRIE 20 years later. The writers have figuratively (and literally) returned to 1984, when the first workshops of the musical were held at 890 Broadway.
They have written substantial new material, and returned to that workshop script largely based on Cohen's screenplay for the 1978 film.
They have returned to their roots. They have not rethought their original decisions and the idea behind successfully musicalizing CARRIE - the scary STEPHEN KING novel.
The problems that were there in 1984, are still here. The writers needed to rebuild the house - they have simply rearranged the furniture and brought in a few new pieces. Yes, Debbie Allen and Terry Hands took your baby off the deep end, but I'm here to tell you, even with a new director, this script with this concept isn't going to work...
Rather than exploring what made the Margaret/Carrie scenes so perfect - rather than exploring the deeper emotional reaches of the other characters - rather than extending a mood of eerie, approaching fear - the writers have essentially just re-written and come up with the same bad ideas for the rest of the show.
The new songs for the teens may be slightly less cringe worthy than the originals, but they are the same feel. Instead of BYE BYE BIRDIE, we now have a high school of kids singing rejected songs from (yes one poster hit the nail on the head) LEGALLY BLONDE. Despite the sophisticated scores featuring complicated, truthful emotions of maturation that have been given to 'high school students' in recent Broadway musicals (like SPRING AWAKENING, BARE) Gore and Pitchford can't or don't seem interested in going any deeper in their emotional explorations of teen angst than HAIRSPRAY.
To help clarify the story, we are given a very precious framing device narrated by Sue (complete with patriotic singing voices, and a final visual of 'happy' Carrie at the prom).
Need I remind you that this is a Horror story? Do the writers think it would be a good idea to musicalize PSYCHO and have Norman Bates end up as just misunderstood and holding hands with his kind mother at the end?
These choices are absolutely wrong and completely foolhardy. Even more so when you realize that the major thrill factor in CARRIE were special effects that can never be accomplished on stage. To work as a musical, the show must be emotionally compelling from all angles. The tone must be unified and seamless.
What has kept CARRIE alive all these years, was the promise showed in writers' skill in musicalizing its two central characters. But that is never going to be enough until they get a grip on the rest of the musical storytelling.
To date, there has been exactly ONE musical that has succeeded in being , eerie and scary and that is SWEENEY TODD. TODD is text book perfect on how you create scary with mood, with musical themes, with unnerving story telling devices.
The writers of CARRIE need to look at it and get a clue. Go back to the novel. All they need to successfully tell this story is there. Look at the story telling. Look how little time is given on the teens as a group and how much time is given delving into their own private feelings - the fear (at growing up). If you want a framing device involving Sue- even that's there. This is not a story about being IN - its a story about being ostracized.
Most of all look at King's story telling - the mood he creates - the horror that ultimately is rooted in pent up, primeval emotion released without human tempering and write a cohesive complete sophisticated score grounded in this.
Yes, Carrie takes place in a normal, American High school...
But, King got it right. Beyond the horror of frightening parents, High school is one of the scariest places on earth.
Updated On: 11/30/09 at 11:23 AM
#231re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 12:03pmI don't agree with your point about Carrie being like another Sweeney Todd, it's perfectly fine to have some "Legally Blonde" moments for the high school kids. The real problem they need to overcome (and I think they already did in this reading) is making both aspects of Carrie (high school and mother-daughter relationship) one show, unlike the original production.
"Movies will make you famous; television will make you rich; but theatre will make you good." - Terrence Mann.
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#232re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 12:13pm
I also dont agree
I think the new songs for the kids work fine.
Whilst Carrie (the novel and movie) were Horror to point i would view the book as more of a coming of age story with a bit of horror thrown in during the 3rd act.
Even the the novel and the movie had its moments of comedy.
The new teen songs represent teens from a few decades ago. This is not Spring Awakening where they have used rock music to further amp up the story and shift it so that young audiences today can relate, this is 84 at this time where the most important things to these kids is how they look and what they will wear for the prom. The songs are care free, like the kids themselves yet some of the lyrics are very cruel reminding us that where these kids are just that...kids, they can still cause pain.
The World According to Chris and A Night We Wont Forget work because of the fun factor of the songs mixed with some very cruel lyrics.
The original suffered as the previous poster said that they did not manage to create 1 world, 1 musical, it was 2 musicals pushed together. I think this one has worked through that. The show should of course feel like 2 seperate moments, Carrie and her mum and the kids, that should stay as we need to see the divide of the 2 worlds. This time however it all feels like its come from the same show. Sue staepping out and telling the story helps that.
I dont think the songs need to sound dark, rock, emo etc to represent them, it should sound fun, alive and have an elemt of camp to it...and it does.
former sadm2 (wink)
#233re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 12:30pm
I think its absurd to state that the most important thing in 1984 for teens was what they wear to the prom - King wrote his book in 1974 and thats not at all what was on his mind.
I'm not saying you need to have a score that sounds like SWEENEY TOOD, but the musical needs to have a cohesion that propels it to its conclusion.
The camp value worked in the film because you could completely eradicate it with frightening special effects in the last twenty minutes. Based on the tone of what they have currently written, the writers are painting themselves into a corner from which they aren't going to be able to create a theatrical pay off without a 100 million dollar stage effect.
I actually think one of the continual mistakes with this musical is their reliance on the screenplay from 1978 as the foundation for their storytelling. What worked on film isn't going to work on stage - and I mean that from all perspectives - tone, story, effects..
I'm glad the changes work for you. I'm here to tell you this script with its current rewrites won't be successful in practical application (in an actual staging)unless the director decides to throw the entire show over to camp in its final moments.
And I know thats not what the writers have in mind.
Updated On: 11/30/09 at 12:30 PM
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#234re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 2:02pm
I think its hard to say what the final show is going to look like, its pretty amazing what can be staged now and in my opinion the staging of the destruction should not be so hard. The staging of the destruction in the movie is not brilliant, a hose pipe attacks a girl, flames erupt behind her and a basketball hoop crashes down. All thse are things that can easily be staged (please leave out the hose pipe lol).
With some projection screens, some wire work and building the sets and doors to represnt the gym it really should not be all that hard (have the tables flip over etc).
The whole point of what i think the writers are trying to create is that the 2 worlds walk side by side barely meeting until the end. Those worlds are so very different. The High School stuff should be fun, camp, fluffy etc as thats a world that Carrie would love to enter. She sees the fun in it, its a perfect escape for her. To have the songs for the teens sounding rock/emo etc is not going to iluminate a world she wants to enter.
I also think whilst you are saying to many people are looking at the screen play i also think that you are looking at the novel to much. Much of what is done in the novel and how its written would not translate to the stage. I always thought the teen moments in the novel were not that great, quite cliched i guess.
The writers of the musical are creating 2 worlds and they do that fine. I also love the idea that these 2 worlds (which did not gel toghether in the 88 production) are so close yet so different is brilliant.
Listening to the reaction from the new reading audiences seemed to love it and get it (they were even laughing at some of the moments with Carrie and her mother which i think is great, they are campy)
At the end of the day Carrie is camp because of its subject matter, it was never going to be a straight musical.
Oh and i also said that in 1984 at THIS TIME the most important things to THESE kids are the prom etc, thats where the action takes place, the run up to the prom. Thats why In works so well, it just shows them talking about things which are important to them which us as adults may find absurd.
former sadm2 (wink)
Updated On: 11/30/09 at 02:02 PM
bwaylvsong
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/28/05
Disneyland Magic Man
Featured Actor Joined: 9/9/06
#237re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 3:38pm
Dantes, the point of the effects of the destruction in the film isn't that they were brilliantly executed (the film was actually done on a tight budget) the fact is they are effects easily managed for a movie and incredibly difficult to do on a stage in front of an audience, not to mention the liability of having flames and flipping tables on a stage full of union actors.
I think we can argue to death whether the tone of the camp is appropriate or inteded (I actually disagree and don't believe the writing team is going for camp in some of the examples you cite) but I think we both agree that the prom itself - the destruction and the ending of the show is not meant to be campy.
How you create a musical with this subject matter and arrive at a paltatable conclusion is the real issue. I question their approach to the material as a whole.
I for one don't think the creative team has thus far proved that the changes made justify the entire enterprise of a musical of CARRIE, not when they site the tragic (non campy) opera "LuLu" as their inspiration for attempting this.
I feel as if in doing this reading they seem to be saying that most of the problems that occured with the 1988 production were simply related to the staging and the cuts dictated by Hands and Allen's concept for the material.
I appreciate the attempt at clarifying plot but I don't see the changes made thus far greatly improving the material. The tone, for me, as a whole still isn't cohesive, just as it wasn't in 1988.
As fun as it would be to see a full production attempted - what I've seen and heard about this new version so far doesn't warrant a 20 million dollar Broadway revival.
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#238re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 3:56pm
Michael even though we disagre, please know i adore you
"not to mention the liability of having flames and flipping tables on a stage full of union actors. "
They have done this many times including in Martin Gueere
No the Destruction should not be campy at all your right, but i think it still can be done.
To me changes made are all for the better, the new book scenes work great, you feel more for Tommy and Sue. Margret and Carrie's scenes are as strong as ever. The updates on In and Do Me A Favour are brilliant (Do me a Favour was always one than had a darker side to it than most of the other teen songs). The solo's for Tommy and Sue are far better. I like Carrie's new solo and the act 2 opener is campy and fun because the kids are out shopping for prom outfits etc, it should sound fun.
The only one i could slightly agree with you on is 'The World According To Chris'. I think a much darker song, something quite aggresive could have gone in there. As for the other teen songs and teen speak i think it sets the tone for kids shopping and getting excited about prom night
I think the creative team have done a great job of rewriting the show. I think you also hae to take in to account that if they strayed away to much they would have a lot of angry Carrie fans.
At the end of the day Carrie is a teen high school show with a crazy mother thrown in or a show about a crazy mother with a teen high school show thrown in, i think the 2 sounds should be very much far meoved from each other.
former sadm2 (wink)
#239re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 3:57pm
this is 84 at this time where the most important things to these kids is how they look and what they will wear for the prom.
Really? Is that what was most important to us at the time? Wish someone had told me that back then. And since when did looks and fashion, especially at prom time, stop being important to teens? At what year did this occur? Because as far as I can tell, it's still a very big deal across the country. The biggest differences I notice is that we didn't use cell phones with built-in cameras and text messaging or ride in Hummer stretch limos in the mid-80s. Other than that, it's still fancy dinners, fancy dresses, tuxes, dancing, sex, alcohol, same old stuff from generation to generation with perhaps some minor deterioration in enthusiasm, but mostly through the same fringe groups.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#240re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 4:14pm
You are missing the point
Im saying at the time the play is set (the few days to the run up to the prom) thats what is important to hthese kids we are meeting in this story.
The kids have one thing on their minds when Carrie begins, the girls are excited about the prom, the guys are hoping their gonna get laid at the prom, thats why its such a kick in the face when Chris gets her ticket revoked because Prom fever has hit the school and thats whts on everyones minds.
Sorry i just worded my original comment badly
sorry
former sadm2 (wink)
EatMySchwartz
Swing Joined: 11/30/09
#242re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 5:38pm
I'm not quite sure I stand in this because I HAVEN'T HEARD THE NEW STUFF YET ROARR ETC.... but I'm leaning more towards Michael Bennett. Here's a few thoughts.
To begin. (I'll start this in gorilla terms first so those who don't care for explanations can skim their reading)
CAMP... IS BAD. Camp is cop-out. Camp killed Carrie first time. I kill camp.
(Un-Gorrilla)
I think Carrie should be one show, as previously stated. The reason this is being revived is because one of the two show-with-in-a-shows is not only salvageable, but top-notch brilliance. That show is anything with Carrie and Mom besides "I'm Not Alone".
So, no. There should be no "Legally Blonde" moments. There needs to be "Carrie". Maybe some "LB" highlights 
.
The truth is that flamboyant ensemble numbers, however much you may enjoy them, are not conforming with the rest of the show. True, the high schoolers are shallow and frivolous, but it doesn't mean that a large ensemble number belongs in "Carrie". The medium, musically and plot-wise of this piece, is a dark tragedy. Can the show be dark straight through? No. Sweeney Todd is still funny. But you don't make "Sweeney" funny by inserting a scene from "Funny Girl". You make "Sweeney" funny by using the same mode of composition and putting in witty lyrics and barbs that the character's of "Sweeney" would make ("By the Sea" and "A Little Priest" and "Sweet Polly Plunkett").
That's why I think the writers are doing better- they started focusing on the characters and not the ensemble in the teen scenes. However, if it's true that these songs have a LB feel, they need to be changed and probably will be, bit by bit. Not that they should sound "emo Spring Awakening". They should sound "Eve Was Weak"/"I Remember..."... CARRIE!
"There are only two worthwhile things to leave behind when we depart this world of ours: children and art."
-Sunday In The Park With George
#243re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 5:39pm
I'm not quite sure I stand in this because I HAVEN'T HEARD THE NEW STUFF YET ROARR ETC.... but I'm leaning more towards Michael Bennett. Here's a few thoughts.
To begin. (I'll start this in gorilla terms first so those who don't care for explanations can skim their reading)
CAMP... IS BAD. Camp is cop-out. Camp killed Carrie first time. I kill camp.
(Un-Gorrilla)
I think Carrie should be one show, as previously stated. The reason this is being revived is because one of the two show-with-in-a-shows is not only salvageable, but top-notch brilliance. That show is anything with Carrie and Mom besides "I'm Not Alone".
So, no. There should be no "Legally Blonde" moments. There needs to be "Carrie". Maybe some "LB" highlights .
The truth is that flamboyant ensemble numbers, however much you may enjoy them, are not conforming with the rest of the show. True, the high schoolers are shallow and frivolous, but it doesn't mean that a large ensemble number belongs in "Carrie". The medium, musically and plot-wise of this piece, is a dark tragedy. Can the show be dark straight through? No. Sweeney Todd is still funny. But you don't make "Sweeney" funny by inserting a scene from "Funny Girl". You make "Sweeney" funny by using the same mode of composition and putting in witty lyrics and barbs that the character's of "Sweeney" would make ("By the Sea" and "A Little Priest" and "Sweet Polly Plunkett").
That's why I think the writers are doing better- they started focusing on the characters and not the ensemble in the teen scenes. However, if it's true that these songs have a LB feel, they need to be changed and probably will be, bit by bit. Not that they should sound "emo Spring Awakening". They should sound "Eve Was Weak"/"I Remember..."... CARRIE!
"There are only two worthwhile things to leave behind when we depart this world of ours: children and art."
-Sunday In The Park With George
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#244re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 6:17pm
The teen ensemble numbers are not camp in the way of bad. The new songs are actually very well written, but if you are going to cover a situation of girls and guys out shopping for prom outfits that the music has to represent what they are feeling. That song is called A Night We'll Never Forget. During this song it also has darker tones with Chris putting her plan in to motion.
'In' is a song about teenagers and teenage hang ups, again the music is going to refelct what the kids are singing about and feeling "what if all my ends should split" etc, this is young people worrying about young peoples stuff, it should sound that way as well.
The World According to Chris is a new song which is fun but i would agree that it could come out. The set up for this song is quite mean spirited and the sound does not really reflect that.
Do Me A Favour has always had a great dark feel to it anywhere and still does this time around, i see this one as the perfect balance between the teen world and the adult world
Now except those 4 songs the rest are the Carrie and her Mother songs or Ballads etc, all of which represents the piece fine.
And Sweeney Todd keeps getting mentioned as an example, but its a silly one. Sweeney Todd does not deal with High School kids talking about High School things, Carrie IS story about teenage rebellion, its just camp in the sense that it happens to be a girl that can move objects with her mind.
Those 4 songs are the only real teen numbers in the show and 3 of them work great, 1 needs cutting. The rest of the score is great, much of it outstanding. The book scenes are developed well and the story moves with ease
To me that is the sign of writers who have done a good job
former sadm2 (wink)
#245re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 6:53pm
The problem, at the end of the day, is that Ken Mandelbaum's assessment of CARRIE at intermission of the 1st preview in NYC in 1988: "What is Carrie - so far half of it is gorgeous music theatre, half of it is thuggish camp" remains true. Even with the new changes.
I agree Dantes that the changes help clarify the story and give the characters more depth, but the bigger problem of justifying a musical version of CARRIE hasn't been answered compellingly yet.
Its the same recipe with a few added ingredients that don't change the flavor of the ice cream enough to make it good.
And I stick by my original thought - that if a musical version of CARRIE, based on a Stephen King horror story isn't scary, than the authors have failed and there is no reason to produce it.
The changes don't work to that end yet. At the moment, the only thing currently scary to me is that this musical could be a huge bomb on Broadway twice.
TheBoyDownstairs
Featured Actor Joined: 10/10/07
#246re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 7:16pmI would love a PM myself if there are some going around
AEA AGMA SM
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/13/09
#247re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 7:31pmI have to admit that I never found the novel or the film particularly "scary," at least not in the way King's later works were. Let's face it, we're not dealing with ghosts, demons, or inter-dimensional space spiders who feed on the souls of children. I found the novel to be quite gripping, but never scary. Even the movie only had the one final moment that scared me. Carrie herself never haunted my nightmares the way some others from that era (Regan, Michael Meyers, Jaws) did.
Dantes
Broadway Star Joined: 10/11/09
#248re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 7:34pmThats because Carrie is not really a horror, its a drama with a bloody finale, thats why i don't think any version of Carrie ever will be scary because its not really suposed to be.
former sadm2 (wink)
#249re: CARRIE Reading?
Posted: 11/30/09 at 7:44pm
Dantes, that is ridiculous. HAMLET is a drama with a bloody finale. Even if you don't buy that CARRIE should be overt gothic horror (and yes its sold in the horror section of your book store) its most definitely a thriller. Moreover, people perceive this as a horror story and audiences will expect as much.
Trying to tell them this is just a drama with a bloody finale will lay like a big old turd.
And speaking of finale, even you Dantes have to admit the ending of the new version is awfully stupid - the chorus of dead kids stepping forward to do a "Rent-style" epitaph / narrative, Carrie being chased by her mother with a knife and then hit by lightening - the final images of the happy kids in their prom gowns surrounding a smiling Carrie while the gospel version of OUR FATHER plays in the background.
C'mon now...
Updated On: 11/30/09 at 07:44 PM
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