Can someone tell me the reason why washington and burr and hamilton arent white?

[massofmen]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:48pm

I am truly asking to see if anyone can shone a light on this question seeing as I cannot get a straight answer from anyone. Thanks. 

 

 

Updated On: 3/30/16 at 05:48 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:52pm

Because Lin said so.

[massofmen]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:53pm

So is there an actual creative reason for it or...just because? 

[Broadway Forever2]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:55pm

Apparently it was actually Tommy Kail's idea not Miranda. But like why not I mean it's a hip hop musical. A lot of hip hop artists are black. If they had a bunch of white people rapping songs in the musicals about dead old white men it would have gotten a lot of criticism... Also I think it's to get POC interested in it as well and the founding fathers have the stigma of slavery so casting POC removes that stigma a lot. Like all the black people who love Hamilton probably wouldn't have looked at it twice if it was a mostly white cast. and would be like eh "slave owners" 

 

i guess if you really looked into it as a symbol of white oppression of minorities but I rally don't think that's there I think they just find it funny that the only white character is the comic relief who sings British Pop songs. In the original casting note before the Off broadway production King George wasn't specified as white. 

Updated On: 3/30/16 at 05:55 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:56pm

I mean, the short answer is because Lin and the rest of the creative team wanted to- there doesn't have to be a deeper explanation than that. 

That said, all of the creative team have spoken repeatedly about this- it was their intention to tell this story with a cast that looks more like the racial make-up of today's society. No, it doesn't boil down to perfect percentages, which would be impossible to cast and a moronic way of looking at the situation, but it's a pretty racially diverse cast. Plus, there's absolutely power in having these dead old white men, almost all of whom owned slaves, played by the very people who would have been oppressed during the time period of the show- it's a reclaiming of the narrative, essentially saying that American stories are also the stories of people of color, not just the white people who were in charge in 1776. This also explains why George is white- he's the figure with far and away the most power in the show, and thus he's played by a white man- the people in society who still hold the most amount of power.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:56pm

You must not have looked very hard as this topic has been discussed in great detail, in tv appearances, interviews as well as here.

 

He wanted the story told by the people that currently make up America...with an emphasis in the immigrant contribution.

[massofmen]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:57pm

Gotcha so what your saying is its a publicity stunt to get poc interested more than a creative choice based on anything else. 

 

I would get it if the founding fathers were poc ND the slaves were white..the inverse would be interesting but that's not happening here. 

 

Thanks. 

[Broadway Forever2]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:57pm

wonderfulwizard11 said: "I mean, the short answer is because Lin and the rest of the creative team wanted to- there doesn't have to be a deeper explanation than that. 

That said, all of the creative team have spoken repeatedly about this- it was their intention to tell this story with a cast that looks more like the racial make-up of today's society. No, it doesn't boil down to perfect percentages, which would be impossible to cast and a moronic way of looking at the situation, but it's a pretty racially diverse cast. Plus, there's absolutely power in having these dead old white men, almost all of whom owned slaves, played by the very people who would have been oppressed during the time period of the show- it's a reclaiming of the narrative, essentially saying that American stories are also the stories of people of color, not just the white people who were in charge in 1776. This also explains why George is white- he's the figure with far and away the most power in the show, and thus he's played by a white man- the people in society who still hold the most amount of power.

 

"

you explained it really well 

[massofmen]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:58pm

Thanks this makes more sense. 

[Broadway Forever2]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 5:59pm

massofmen said: "Gotcha so what your saying is its a publicity stunt to get poc interested more than a creative choice based on anything else. 

 

I would get it if the founding fathers were poc ND the slaves were white..the inverse would be interesting but that's not happening here. 

 

Thanks. 

 

"

i mean it is a creative choice. All these founding fathers had slaves at the time and America was mostly white. It's showing that American history and the ideals that started America belongs to ALL Americans not just white people.... 

Updated On: 3/30/16 at 05:59 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:00pm

massofmen said: "Gotcha so what your saying is its a publicity stunt to get poc interested more than a creative choice based on anything else. 

 

I would get it if the founding fathers were poc ND the slaves were white..the inverse would be interesting but that's not happening here. 

 

Thanks. 

 

"

No, that's not what anyone said, at all.  But obviously you were looking for an answer to negate anyway.

[KCW]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:01pm

First off, Hamilton wad actually from St. Croix (is that how you spell it?) In the show they mention that a few times so Hamilton was actually not white.

"Dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean " (Alexander Hamilton)

"Privately calls him creole bastard in his taunts "(Adams Administration) 

I an sure people will explain Lin reasonings, but I also want to add that it is very rare to find a white person who can rap well.

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:05pm

Think about it this way. If Washington, Burr, and Hamilton were played by, say, Gavin Creel, Michael Cerveris, and Tony Yazbeck (not necessarily respectively, of course), do you think it would feel as truly and profoundly pertinent and real and contemporary?

Let me be clear—I think the strength in the show is the material itself/the libretto, and that if they were all played by white guys, we would still hold Hamilton up to extraordinarily high praise because it's just brilliantly written.

But when you shirk the notion of these Founding Fathers—who were real and who were white—being played by white actors, it makes the piece as a whole feel that much more contemporary in feeling and relevant. If Hamilton began with (to refer back to my terrible example) Michael Cerveris walking on stage in colonial garb and asking the question, "How does a bastard orphan...," you would intrinsically feel an immediate level of detachment because you imagine him as Burr himself. When Odom, black, steps out, he plays not Burr the Man, but rather, the personification of Burr's ideas, values, and belief system. 

The above post will probably read as completely nonsensical to others, so please ask me for points of clarification and I'd be happy to elaborate! I feel very strongly about this.

[Broadway Forever2]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:05pm

KCW said: "First off, Hamilton wad actually from St. Croix (is that how you spell it?) In the show they mention that a few times so Hamilton was actually not white.

"Dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean " (Alexander Hamilton)

"Privately calls him creole bastard in his taunts "(Adams Administration) 

I an sure people will explain Lin reasonings, but I also want to add that it is very rare to find a white person who can rap well.

 

"

yeah and this project would have gotten so much criticism from the black community if it was all white hip hop musical with white guys playing people who owned slaves having rap battles. Like people realize that right lol?

Updated On: 3/30/16 at 06:05 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:08pm

To be fair, while Hamilton was indeed born in St. Croix and can be considered an immigrant, he was still a white man. His mother was of British and French descent, and his father was Scottish. In his book, Chernow talks about how Hamilton could have easily felt out of place in America, since he was not a citizen of a particular state like so many of the Founding Fathers (and at that time, people highly identified with their state of origin moreso than America as a whole) but he was absolutely a white man. 

[KCW]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:16pm

He may have been white in skin but not in custom like other founding fathers.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:25pm

How, exactly? I mean, yes, he was not raised in the luxurious lifestyles of the other Founding Fathers, but he very quickly was taken under the wing of some local wealthy men in St. Croix when his brilliance revealed itself. And while he grew up around slaves, his family was never quite destitute enough to really be put on that level- at worst, you could probably describe Hamilton's upbringing as lower class. Still, at least according to Chernow's book, Hamilton was able to quickly acclimate himself to upper class society, and if privately he never felt totally comfortable, he nonetheless became a leading political and social figure in early America. 

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:29pm

In his writings, Hamilton was notoriously far more prolific in quantity as well as more polarizing in tone than were other Founding Fathers.

[Cupid Boy2]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:34pm

I view it as people of color taking ownership of the part they played in laying the foundation for our country. It's credit they're not often given, which is what makes this casting so meaningful. 

[laughingplace]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:44pm

I  have not seen the show . I will in May but I always presumed by showing  the difference between The British and the new nation

[BroadwayConcierge]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:54pm

Yet another reason! ^ The sheer visual and aesthetic contrasts between the American colonists and the British is rather pronounced through brilliant costume design, but deeply embedded, too, by these racial differences. There are a number of other cross-national contrasts that can be identified in the show; racial differences contribute.  

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:54pm

St. Croix was colonized by Europeans as North America was.  Hamilton was born to European colonists and was no more similar in culture or custom to native St. Croix residents than the founding fathers were to Native Americans.  He may have had differences from the other founding fathers as a result of being from St. Croix rather than a state, but the rest of the founding fathers likewise would've differed from one state to another.  They're all culturally closer to Europeans than they are to any native cultures in the Americas. 

 

And yes, they were all white, and it's a social commentary and artistic choice that the creative team chose to cast them as persons of color.  In addition to the explanations already provided, my understanding is that Miranda sees a parallel between the struggles and oppressions faced by our founding fathers and the struggles and oppressions faced by minorities of today (which is also why he chose hip hop and rap as the language through with that story was told).  He has compared Hamilton to Tupac.  That's a gross simplification but that's my interpretation of the interviews I've seen with him. 

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 6:59pm

And I also agree with Broadway Concierge's and Cupid Boy's comments.  In particular, it's worth noting that while THESE founding fathers whose stories are featured in Hamilton were white, persons of color played an important role in our history.  Those stories are just seldom told and as a result have not necessarily made it into our history books (just as those of the founding mothers, which is one of the reason Chernow and Hamilton both emphasize Eliza's role).  This probably includes things we'll never know about because it was never documented due to the prejudices of those in the past.

Updated On: 3/30/16 at 06:59 PM

[theatreguy12]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 7:13pm

And Alexander Hamilton was an outsider of sorts, and treated as such, despite the similar color of his skin.  So he knew, in a manner, what it was like to be on the outside looking in as the founding fathers looked at him differently due to where he was coming from as well.  Even if they shared the same color skin.  

It's all about finding something in others to raise your nose at; there will always be that dynamic, unfortunately, with mankind.  It happens between cultures, and within cultures too.

But it's not only found in culture, ethnic background, religion, and skin color, but also, on a more surficial level,  in the academic/scholarly realm, where intellectual elitism exists as well.

[leeleecocororo]

Posted: 3/30/16 at 7:21pm

Can someone tell me the reason why Radames and Amneris are white?