Charlie and the Chocolate Factory- Page 4

[Roscoe]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 1:35pm

The first film can be seen as a precursor of the sort of film that has become very common: a family film that adults can enjoy as well. The story is intact, but there are odd little poisonous moments that the kiddies just can’t seem to appreciate. What is a child supposed to make of Wonka’s advice to Mike Teavee: “You should open your mouth a little wider when you speak” (a direct quote from Carroll’s Red Queen to Alice in Through the Looking Glass) or the quote from Arthur O'Shaughnessy “we are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams.” And it isn’t just Wonka. Mrs. Teavee’s mis-identification of the tune on Wonka’s musical lock (Mozart, not Rachmaninoff) and the picture of Martin Bormann used to identify the Argentinian gambler who forged the last golden ticket are all glorious little inside jokes, out of place in an ordinary family movie.

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 01:35 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 1:46pm

NoName3---Gene Wilder (as Wonka) does that all through the movie. He bastardizes and lifts quotes from random sources:

"99 and 44/100 percent pure." (Ivory Soap ad)
"Where is fancy bred? In the heart or in the head?"
"So shines a good deed in a weary world."
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men."
"Bubbles, bubbles everywhere but not a drop to drink."
"A small step for mankind, a giant step for us."
"All I ask is a tall ship and a star to sail her by."
"Is it my soul that calls upon my name?
"Across the desert lies the promised land."
"Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker."


And the tinker outside the factory who says, "Up the airy mountain, down the rushy glen. We dare not go a-hunting for fear of little men." (The Fairies by William Allingham - 1824-1889)

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 1:53pm

Roscoe -- I love all those things you pointed out.

That's why I get a little saddened when I hear people say the 1971 movie was too "cute" or sappy. So much of the dry wit and clever references are lost.

I remember as a kid, the whole first part of that film left me tapping my foot a bit (I was 8 years old the summer it came out). The satire of the media frenzy and the hype around the Wonka bars was only mildly amusing. I couldn't wait for them to get into the factory and start the tour.

Then as I got older, I loved the first part of the film more than the tour.

Now that I'm even older, I appreciate both parts equally as well. There are so many little gems in the lines of dialogue, the looks on the actors' faces.

I love the cleverness of it and the wit behind so much of it.

[NoName3]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 2:05pm

Best12, I haven't seen the film since its original release in 1971, when I didn't think much of it. This thread has convinced me it's long past time to give it another try.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 2:13pm

Cool! I think I'm going to give both films another viewing this weekend.

[trentsketch]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 2:15pm

dreaming, I think Tilda Swinton could pull off the Grand High Witch in a new version of The Witches. I can think of a few other indie actresses who could do it justice but you just know they would go with a big name in that role to sell ticket.

Regarding Charlie, I don't know what they could do to fix the problem of Charlie. It sounds like, for the most part, the musical team went really faithful to the book which is great. I love that. But if you're going faithful to the book, Charlie is practically perfect in every way. His only struggle is poverty and even there he has no expectations of ever not being poor.

The only fix I can think of is to add in that Charlie is actually worried about what happens to the other children in the factory. It would make him an even purer character and allow for that all is well moment that cuts a lot of the tension in the films and book. He could voice his concerns a little louder after each punishment happens. Charlie could even reject Willy Wonka at the end when Wonka dismisses his concerns about the other children because they were naughty. Then Wonka could explain how being compassionate and kind was the final test.

It has the weight of the sacrificing the Gobstopper for drinking the Fizzy Lifting drink without having to add on an out of character naughty moment for Charlie. That could be a nice twist that stays very true to the book. Isn't there a moment where he says something like "What about Mike and Veruca and the others?" when they go up in the glass elevator?

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 02:15 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 2:25pm

"What about Mike and Veruca and the others?" when they go up in the glass elevator?

In the 1971 film, yes. It's actually before the elevator scene, when Wonka tells Charlie and Grandpa Joe to show themselves out.


CHARLIE: Mr. Wonka, what's gonna happen to the other kids? Augustus, Veruca?

WONKA: My dear boy, I promise you they'll be quite all right. When they leave here, they'll be completely restored to their normal, terrible old selves. But maybe they'll be a little bit wiser for the wear. Anyway, don't worry about them.

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 02:25 PM

[DeNada]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 3:38pm

trentsketch, every time one of the children is dispatched in the stage show Charlie says "Poor Veruca!" or "Poor Augustus!" or "Poor Violet!" (admittedly I don't think he says it about Mike, but never mind - given how ecstatic Mrs Teavee is about his shrinking maybe he didn't think it was all that bad!).

I may have missed it if he mentions them again afterwards but I don't think he does - I suspect he's too caught up in the wonder of Wonka's ideas to think about them!

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 3:48pm

Does anyone have a song list? Also if Veruca and Augustus "die", then what happens to the others?

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 3:50pm

A song list was posted on the first page of this thread.

[DeNada]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 3:56pm

Violet ends up in, I think, the jam room, where Wonka tells her dad to go ASAP so that she doesn't start fermenting.

Mike is shrunk as in all iterations of the story - Mrs Teavee thanks Wonka, puts him in her purse, and then leaves.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 5:17pm

By the way, there are definitely things I love about the Tim Burton film ...

Freddie Highmore is a wonderful Charlie. "Sincere" doesn't even begin to cover it. I love Helena Bonham Carter as his mom, too. Bad British teeth and all.

And I really love Missi Pyle's "crazy eyes" as Violet's mother. She belongs on Toddlers and Tiaras as one of the moms. Genius! I can't ever get enough Missi in my life.

I also love Geoffrey Holder's voice as the narrator. Takes me back to the "Cola Nut, Un-Cola Nut" Days.

Watching the movie now ...

Updated On: 5/24/13 at 05:17 PM

[disneybroadwayfan22]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 5:18pm

Thanks best12bars! The titles are really intersting. But, I can't recongize what happens in some of them O.o I wish they kept the Candy Man song. That would be perfect.

And thanks to you too, Denade. Weird how Augustus and Venorica get gruesome send-offs while the others stick to the book. But, I wonder how Violet gets blue and fat.

[DeNada]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 5:54pm

I don't think the insinuation is supposed to be that Augustus and Veruca have actually died - that would be far too dark. I assume that, like in the original material, they're perfectly fine. But the show insinuates nasty things and then there's no time to ever see the children again, so there's always the possibility that they have met particularly gruesome fates!

Violet wears a costume that inflates after she chews the amazing gum and, thanks to some very clever lighting, she appears to be turning purple in front of us. She then runs upstage, gets some proper makeup put on her, and gets strapped into a disco ball - the Oompa Loompas sing a song called "Juiced!", the lyrics of which I unfortunately couldn't hear a single word of, while doing disco choreography.

[Jonwo]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 7:44pm

I find it interesting that they retained the nationalities of the four children from both film versions Augustus being German, Veruca is English and Mike and Violet are American, I guess since its not stated in the book where they come from and it worked well on film that they kept it for the musical, Charlie is English in the show but I imagine if it transfers to Broadway that they could change his nationality to American since its not stated where he's from, the same is true with Wonka.

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/24/13 at 10:26pm

One of the clever things they did in the 1971 film was to cast all of the children in the town where Charlie lived with Americans. Charlie and his family were a mix of American and European.

But nearly all other adults were European (mostly British or German).

And they shot all the exteriors for the town in Germany (very obviously so, with the architecture).

All of that was intentional (according to the director) to make it unclear exactly where Charlie was from.

[Nickhutson]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 2:49am

They'd probably keep Charlie British when this show goes to Broadway, as all his dialogue and lyrics are written in the British vernacular.

[AnythingGoes23]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 5:01am

ATG are lining up Cherlie for the Foxwoods is a strong rumour flying.

[Princeton Returns]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 7:48am

I find it odd that in all the comments etc ive read, there is not much mention of Hodge as Wonka. And what I have read has been mixed to nothing special

[mikey2573]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 9:31am

"it presents the problem of having an entire story told where nobody involved is realistic, including the protagonist."

This is the problem in the book MATILDA as well. And it is a problem that the creators of the musical MATILDA were unable to solve (or maybe they did not think it was a problem). This is why I found it so difficult to care about any of the characters in that show; there was NO ONE I could identify with.
The writer of the original WILLY WONKA film (David Seltzer) really worked at solving that problem by fleshing the story out and making Charlie and his Grandpa much more realistic, while keeping all the other characters as silly and cartoonish. Seltzer also added the part about Slugworth being a double agent who really works for Wonka and he added that test for Charlie. When Charlie makes that HUGE sacrifice by placing the Gobstopper on Wonka's desk, that is still a very powerful moment in the film. All of this was not in the book or the Burton film, which makes them both inferior to the 1971 film. Not sure how the new musical version will deal with this, but it is definitely a problem in almost all of Dahl's books; unrealistic characters and simplistic plots. I hope the new musical fixes this, otherwise I fear we are in for another MATILDA-like musical.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 9:34am

It might play in America, but I doubt it. Throw in more of the Bricusse/Newley score and maybe we'll talk.

[Playbilly]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 1:15pm

Burton took another perfect property (he specializes in ruining my favorites) and Depped it up with poor storytelling, cartoonish characters and way to much "production value". The farther the stage version stays away from his version, the better.

[ohjustjake]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 1:19pm

I thought there was a playbill or bww article that stated that they planned on using some of the songs from the first film? I saw they included Pure Imagination, but I'm surprised they didn't include "I've Got A Golden Ticket" or "I Want It Now", which both are fantastic songs.

[Thparkaly]

Posted: 5/25/13 at 10:55pm

Incredibly strange question, but how was the music other than those songs (scene change music, underscoring, etc.)?

[best12bars]

Posted: 5/28/13 at 9:54am

Is it just me, or does he look a little too "Snidely Whiplash" here.




Douglas Hodge as Willy Wonka

Updated On: 5/28/13 at 09:54 AM