Hello Dolly ?

[alxscrz2]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 3:12am

So I was watching Hello Dolly tonight and dont really get why Dolly wants to marry Horace ??? He just seems like a grumpy old man who has lots of money...... Can anyone please explain, thanks :)

[Matt2]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 3:51am

To advance the plot. Really, I can think of no other explanation for why Dolly Levi would want to marry Horace. She makes it clear in her speech to Ephram right before "Before the Parade Passes By" how she wants to move on with her life and marry again. But why her next husband needs to be Horace Vandergelder is anyone's guess.

Updated On: 4/23/12 at 03:51 AM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 5:25am

She doesn't think she will ever LOVE again, so she decides to be of good use -- both to Horace and with his money. (The attraction of the money is not for her personal use.)

[Patash]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 9:00am

Easy -- he's a "half-a-millionaire". Have you ever heard of people marrying for money?

She hints at it a lot of times, but most clearly this little interchange explains her intentions:

Sullivan, ticket seller: Where to, Dolly?
Dolly Levi: Yonkers, New York, to handle a highly personal matter for Mr. Horace Vandergelder, the well-known, unmarried, half-a-millionaire.
Sullivan, ticket seller: Gonna marry him yourself, Dolly?
Dolly Levi: Why, Mr. Sullivan, what ever put such a preposterous idea into my head... er, your head!

[madbrian]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 9:26am

I think she sees him as a project. Probably Adelaide and Sarah said it best in Marry The Man Today. Maybe Ephram was also a curmudgeon before Dolly married him?

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 9:33am

I was just going to say something similar, madbrain.

It's heavily implied that Dolly sets out to marry Horace as "sport." She loves a challenge, and successfully landing such a notoriously difficult man as a husband would be a big coo. While she makes a living through her "meddling," she also needs to secure her own financial stability in the wake of Ephraim's death, and marrying the richest man in town is the perfect way for her to do that.

Updated On: 4/23/12 at 09:33 AM

[beaemma]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:01pm

In her first speech to her dead husband, she says that she wants to marry Horace for his money and that she intends to spread the loot around just like her husband taught her. She also says that it won't be a marriage in the sense that she and Ephraim had one, but that she thinks she can make Horace happy. She sees him as an unhappy man who could benefit if she meddles in his life, and she's already said that she loves to meddle.

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:04pm

She's wants to raise Horace's freak number.

[newintown]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:06pm

And selling feed wasn't Horace's only connection to horses, if you get my drift.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:07pm

Every other man in the show is either too young for her or a gay waiter.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:12pm

And we have a winner.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 1:22pm

I saw this post heading and thought it was a new Gen Y, upswoop-at-the-end-of-your-sentences version of the classic musical.

[SondheimFan5]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 3:08pm

Remember, Dolly's a lot older in the stage show than in the film.

[madbrian]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 3:20pm

We recently watched the non-musical The Matchmaker, with Shirley Booth as Dolly, and a very, very young Anthony Perkins as Cornelius, Robert Morse as Barnaby, and Shirley MacLaine as Irene. I think I was too obsessed about how young the supporting cast was to pay much attention to the movie itself.

[Jon]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 3:33pm

In other words, the supporting cast were the correct ages. Cornelius says he is 28. He tends to be played by actors pushing 40. Barnaby should be about 19.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 4:16pm

I think the point of the opening number (whichever opening number: stage or screen) is not just a tribute to Dolly's ingenuity, but an illustration of just how hard a middle-aged widow has to work to support herself in the period. Why wouldn't she want to marry Horace?!

At first, Irene Molloy wants to do the same thing, actually, but it is the attitude of the play that she is too young to give up on true love.

And for those Americans who are squeamish about marrying for money, the musical at least (I can't remember the last scene of the straight play) throws in an extra twist where Dolly refuses Horace's proposal. She says she wants a "sign" from her dead husband (and that may be true), but what she gets is a sign that Horace has changed to become the generous and kind man she wants him to be.

Updated On: 4/23/12 at 04:16 PM

[TxTwoStep]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 4:25pm

when i work on the show, i talk with the actress playing Dolly about softening that at-times mercenary attitude. Besides wanting to make Horace happy (which is a positive, and fits in with the other things she "meddles" in, as in she can see an outcome for someone they cannot), i also point out that he is such a "project" that Dolly would not wish him on a weaker woman...it would end in failure AND hurt her rep as a matchmaker. So the only option is to "do it herself" while also honoring Ephraim's memory.

As to the MATCHMAKER film, it's a dear thing to see...and quite good. For another take on the material, research ON THE RAZZLE, where Stoppard meets Wilder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Razzle_(play)

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 4:32pm

Sounds wise, TxTwoStep, and very helpful to actors.

But speaking as a spectator, I've never seen a production where I was bothered by a "mercenary" Dolly. Horace is so obviously miserable, I have to assume he will be better off with Dolly in the house.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 4:35pm

I'm curious about this big coo. That must be one massive dove.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 5:22pm

She loves a challenge, and successfully landing such a notoriously difficult man as a husband would be a big coo.

Okay, I'll be the grammar Nazi. It's "coup" (the "p" is silent) not "coo"

Today's lesson was brought to you by the letters "F" and "U"...

:: roll end credits ::



Updated On: 4/23/12 at 05:22 PM

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 10:48pm

As long as we're discussing DOLLY!, can someone refresh my memory?

Why does Irene sing "Ribbons Down my Back" (except for the obvious reason that the song reveals her to be too romantic to be an appropriate match for Horace Vandergelder)?

Isn't Horace already courting her? (She awaits his arrival in that scene.) Why is she singing about wearing ribbons to catch "some gentleman's eye"?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/23/12 at 10:55pm

She does not have feelings for Horace, she plays with the idea of being a bad girl, breaking the rules to attract a man and not doing the "right" thing.

[justoldbill]

Posted: 4/24/12 at 2:14am

I always loved the way Pearl Baily would pet and stroke the cash register.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 4/24/12 at 4:06am

I've never known a thing about Hello, Dolly!. Well, except that Carol Channing was much celebrated as the role's originator. But that's it.

After reading this thread, I want to know this musical. Sounds like right up my alley; eccentric MILF with the peculiar name of "Dolly" sets her sights on a grumpy old miser after she is widowed. Why? Cos' she can, and this old fella is a "project," and Dolly LOVES a good project! And she shall distribute good will and get her paws on some cash while she's at it.

F*cking quirky as hell.

I LOVE IT!

[TxTwoStep]

Posted: 4/24/12 at 9:05am

i have no idea why "coup" came out "coo". i know the difference. Apparently my typing fingers do not.

As to RIBBONS, the placement is simple enough: Channing can't sing ballads. Herman writes lovely ones. Channing can't sing soprano. Every show of that period needed one. Thus: RIBBONS for Irene.