IF/THEN- Page 2
IF/THEN
THEATRICAL100
Featured Actor Joined: 9/12/10
#26IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 2:16pmBoy, this is a story. I appreciated Idina ever since RENT, but was never a "mega fan". IF/THEN is truly Idina's show and I really can't see anyone else headlining the show for a while (Jackie IS great, though). Idina's voice becomes a character in the show -- so distinct and iconic. I loved her after the show. For the record, I really didn't like the show when I was watching it... disliked greatly might be a good choice of words. I thought(and still think) that the Liz/Beth divide makes no sense and that the men in the show dominate all the ballads and they all sound pretty much the same. Idina has some great material and the lyrics are clever, but they get muddled and weighed down by other characters. The audience was waiting the entire show for Idina to come back and do something amazing, and in my opinion, it didn't have to be like that. A better design would've worked (the theatre was too big for a show that utilized a turntable and the hollow block-frame things -- it totally felt swallowed to me) and the script definitely needed a little work. The whole thing with gas masks felt bizarre to me. But the score is pretty great -- I listen to it a few times a day and it's great, but if a distinction is supposed to be made between the two "worlds", it's impossible. I like to listen to the show rather than see it. If the show wasn't written in the "Idina has to have everything that is good" mindset the rest of it would be just as engaging as when she's singing. The show just feels sticky and weighed down. IF they wanted to do the alternate life thing, then it should've been a color and hair thing. And it should've been obvious. The subtlety of it doesn't work. People don't get it -- and it sucks because it takes away from the power and poignancy of the piece. And the characters that cross over in both worlds needed to be streamlined... I still have no clue what happened to Josh in either universe.
Marla: I have to go sing about a life I never led.
#27IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 2:19pm
"IF they wanted to do the alternate life thing, then it should've been a color and hair thing. And it should've been obvious."
The entire color palette of the staging switches from blue to orange the entire night.
How can she have different hair in half a second in a scene without it turning into some Jefferson Mays GGTLAM farce?!
Pootie2
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/1/14
#28IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 2:40pm
"People don't get it -- and it sucks because it takes away from the power and poignancy of the piece. And the characters that cross over in both worlds needed to be streamlined... I still have no clue what happened to Josh in either universe."
I think enough people get it such that mass review venues have decent aggregate ratings; I rather doubt that all the viewers with positive comments didn't understand the bifurcated plot but loved only Menzel. (I didn't get the gas mask moment at first either, but it's such a minor comedic point in the entire thing that it wasn't worth getting hung up on.)
As for Josh, uh. Well, I thought it was obvious, but YMMV. There are three elements they use for differentiation: glasses, lighting color, and Elizabeth is called out as either Liz or Beth very clearly. Granted, I went in having already heard the OBCR and knowing those details, so maybe I got a whole lot more out of it than many, yet there are definitely viewer comments that they went in blind and followed mostly just fine.
At some point I may sit down and sift through the notes I took when I managed to catch the show out of sheer luck, as I find the entire piece and the "meta" social stuff around it very intriguing.
#BoycottTrumplikePattiMurin
THEATRICAL100
Featured Actor Joined: 9/12/10
Fantod
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/3/14
#33IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:02pmIt's not like If/Then is some bare bones musical. It's got a big star heading the cast and has quite a few players in the cast and a very technical set design and a decent sized orchestra. Sure, the story is original, but it's not some crazy risk. In fact, I think the show was too safe for its own good.
Pootie2
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/1/14
#34IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:16pm
"It's not like If/Then is some bare bones musical. It's got a big star heading the cast and has quite a few players in the cast and a very technical set design and a decent sized orchestra. Sure, the story is original, but it's not some crazy risk. In fact, I think the show was too safe for its own good."
That's certainly a reasonable perspective. I expect a number of decisions were made to try to lower that "75%" industry number, but Menzel was part of the process so early that it seems a bit chicken/egg to say her casting was necessarily playing it safe: Since Menzel wanted to return to Broadway anyway, I suspect anything she would have been cast in could be argued thus. Are having a good cast, technical set design, and decent-sized orchestra really points in playing it too safe, or are those elements of a relatively well-produced musical? Having a larger orchestra, for example, would cost more, right? So that in the economic argument would seem to increase risk again.
"But theatre shouldn't be something where someone has to do homework before or after. I knew exactly what the show was like and still got lost while actively trying to understand the plot."
And others didn't. YMMV.
"Josh is used to show that there are some aspects of our lives that we are destined for. No choice or decision can change that."
That's one (very reasonable) interpretation. 
#BoycottTrumplikePattiMurin
Updated On: 12/16/14 at 03:16 PM
#35IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:34pm
Isn't every new non-jukebox musical solely responsible for the entire fate of Broadway? Except Wicked, or course, because it's POP-yoo-ler.
LAR!
I loved Next to Normal and saw it four times. I liked the cast and design for If/Then, but felt the rest was pretty weak and bland. No desire to see it again. And neither of those opinions have anything to do with how I feel about any other musicals, jukebox or otherwise.
Expecting everyone to feel the same as yourself regarding any show on Broadway is just going to lead you either into a life of bitterness or a lot of therapy. I loved Women on the Verge and thought it was a shame it closed so quickly, but I know that's how it goes. I thought Motown was a silly mess, but understood why it was a hit and people wanted to see it. How I feel about a show has nothing to do with its success, critics' reviews, or anyone else's desire to see it. That's theatre. That's art. That's life.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#36IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:37pm
Expecting everyone to feel the same as yourself regarding any show on Broadway is just going to lead you either into a life of bitterness or a lot of therapy.
Just a suggestion: Some people on this board write the above on a Post-It® note and stick it on their laptop/pc/tablet screen.
Sutton Ross
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/13
#37IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:47pm
"Are audiences so afraid of a challenge that even Idina Menzel can't sellout a theater?"
A challenge? There was nothing challenging about If/Then. It's a shi*ty show all around, and audiences don't want to see that.
"It hurts me to see this wonderful show wane ever week in sales, while predictable mediocrity sells tickets."
It hurts you, like physically hurts you that a Broadway show isn't doing well? K.
Updated On: 12/17/14 at 03:47 PM
#38IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:51pm
A challenge? There was nothing challenging about If/Then. It's a shi*ty show all around, and audiences don't want to see that.
^^ THIS IS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE STATING THEIR OPINION AS FACT AND SPEAKING FOR EVERYONE ELSE ON THE BOARD OR FOR THAT MATTER AUDIENCES WORLDWIDE.
Updated On: 12/16/14 at 03:51 PM
Fantod
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/3/14
#39IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 3:59pmThought I don't agree that then how is terrible (I'm with Mister Matt, though I also liked the score), I agree that it really was not that challenging of a musical. Challenging is Next to Normal or Cabaret, If/Thence is just a story and nothing revolutionary (of course, it's an opinion)
indytallguy
Broadway Star Joined: 7/13/08
#41IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 5:32pmI found IF/THEN to be just OK. So when friends ask for recommendations for shows if I have something I feel more strongly about, the OK shows rarely even get mentioned. I've felt far more passionate about far more serious and complex shows and recommended them accordingly.
#42IF/THEN
Posted: 12/16/14 at 11:35pm
I am calling BS on the OP. If you look at the top shows, Kinky Boots and Book of Mormon are in the top 7 grossing shows. These are completely original or challenging if you will. You can also include Wicked in that definition of an original show as well. Depending on your definition of challenging, Matilda should also be included.
Good shows are rewarded accordingly. I thought If/Then was only a decent show because of Idina. Take out Idina and there isn't much of a show.
I loved Beautiful and Jersey Boys. I disliked Motown. Why? Jersey Boys and Beautiful had better story lines. To me that's challenging.
The next big jukebox musical will be "On your feet". It will be interesting to see how that performs. It will be rewarded accordingly if it is done well and has a great storyline.
Jukebox musicals will always be around. They recreate music and emotions from earlier periods of our lives, along with bringing back fond memories. Absolutely nothing is wrong with them and I believe are just as challenging as any other show to do well.
Not to be confused with Dave19.
Updated On: 12/16/14 at 11:35 PM
Sutton Ross
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/20/13
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#46IF/THEN
Posted: 12/17/14 at 12:19am
Your lack of knowledge doesn't make it original. Your personal experience doesn't classify a bway show.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#47IF/THEN
Posted: 12/17/14 at 2:14am
I thought the music and the story line in IF/THEN were incredible. The plane crash scene scared the hell out of me, and [SPOILER ALERT] I had tears running down my face at the end.
The only thing that I thought was illogical (and it might have changed since the DC previews) was that the lesbian couple (whose names I've forgotten, but who were played by LaChanze and someone else) split up in one timeline and stayed together in the other. This would only make sense to me if Liz/Beth did something in one timeline to cause that result.
Audrey, the Phantom Phanatic, who nonetheless would rather be Jean Valjean, who knew how to make lemonade out of lemons.
delongpre
Featured Actor Joined: 12/12/12
#48IF/THEN
Posted: 12/17/14 at 8:19am
"The only thing that I thought was illogical (and it might have changed since the DC previews) was that the lesbian couple (whose names I've forgotten, but who were played by LaChanze and someone else) split up in one timeline and stayed together in the other. This would only make sense to me if Liz/Beth did something in one timeline to cause that result. "
She did. In the Beth storyline she states that Ann and Kate ARE the love in her life, and she explains to them in the library that their love is what has given her hope. She encourages them to work on it and they end up staying together...for the time being at least.
In the Liz storyline Liz HAS a love in Josh, as well as 2 kids, and therefore is not focused on Ann and Kate's love as much. It's apparently her absence of involvement that leads to their divorce. Liz was not there to keep them together.
Updated On: 12/17/14 at 08:19 AM
#49IF/THEN
Posted: 12/17/14 at 11:39am
These are completely original or challenging if you will. You can also include Wicked in that definition of an original show as well. Depending on your definition of challenging, Matilda should also be included.
What is your definition of "completely original"? Wicked and Matilda are both adapted from novels.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
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