Idina's "note"- Page 2

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 5:29pm

what part of "defying gravity" does she hit the f? is it the "look" in "so if you care to find me look to the western sky"?

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 5:56pm

Yes, it is on that note as well as when she sings "I'm flying high deFYing gravity and soon I'll match them in reknown."

And if she's having a good night, I've heard her hit the F again when she riffs "Bring me down."

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 5:59pm

the "bring me down"s at the end are E's and im positive of that

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 6:04pm

On the cd they are...I've heard live renditions where she has completely made up her own notes on the riffs. I'm not referring to the "...is never gonna bring me down," but I'm referring to the one after that before her last riff in the song.

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 6:26pm

When Eden sang the song, she went up to an F a number of times in that song.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/10/04 at 7:37pm

Yes, I've heard her do the number...most of the times I saw Idina in the show, Idina took basically the same liberties vocally (though I would imagine she can't be doing it all the time) that Eden took with the exception of that chilling riff Eden does on the last notes of the song.

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/12/04 at 12:05am

ok so yeah...she still an alto...an alto with am amazing range...cause yeah she can sing two c's above middle c but there are other altos that can do that...there is no soprano that can sing the end of "im not that girl" as strong as she does...and she mightve have been a soprano in high school or whatever but shes older than she was then and when you get older you cant sing as high as you used to be able to no matter how much training you go through...so she mightve have been a soprano then but shes an alto now through and through

Posted: 9/12/04 at 11:00am

BroadwayGirl107

You are right. Idina does, indeed, hit a high B flat in "Life of the Party" in the line "Don't ya wanna be foot loose and free?" She hits it on free jumping an octave from "And" to "Free". So she must have SOME soprano tendancies if not having an actual soprano voice.

[BroadwayBaby3]

Posted: 9/12/04 at 11:29am

who's dee?

[NoDayButToday2]

Posted: 9/12/04 at 11:32am

broadwaybaby3-- what??? Updated On: 9/12/04 at 11:32 AM

[InTheMoney]

Posted: 9/12/04 at 12:07pm

"ok so yeah...she still an alto...an alto with am amazing range...cause yeah she can sing two c's above middle c but there are other altos that can do that...there is no soprano that can sing the end of "im not that girl" as strong as she does...and she mightve have been a soprano in high school or whatever but shes older than she was then and when you get older you cant sing as high as you used to be able to no matter how much training you go through...so she mightve have been a soprano then but shes an alto now through and through "

Er... Not necessarily

I have the same range - D below middle C to the C two octaves above middle C. The MDs in both the amdram companies I'm in, as well as the vocal tutors I've had at home and at Uni all class me as a soprano.

As someone else said, it depends entirely on tone quality. I used to be classed as an alto rather than a sop because I had a darker tone, but as I've got older my tone's become lighter and I'm now classed as a first soprano.

It's noticeable that for power, she belts or mixes the notes rather than sing them in head, and that when she doesn't belt the notes (eg "I'm through with playing by the RULES of someone else's game") Idina has a very light tone. That to me says soprano rather than alto, as altos naturally have a darker tone on the high notes because they place them differently.

In musical theatre terms, she would probably best be called mezzo-soprano, as that is pretty much the only term that fits a woman who can sing both the female "parts". However, in terms of the 4 'voices' in a choir - she's almost certainly a soprano. She definitely seems more comfortable up there (Glinda does much of the low harmony in DEFYING GRAVITY and FOR GOOD - Elphie stays on the higher notes and whilst most of her songs seem to have been tailor-made for Idina's range, the higher the note the stronger her voice seems to be. On my cd I can barely hear the low E of "UNlimited" in DEFYING GRAVITY.).

I'd also add in reference to one of your earlier posts that it IS very difficult to belt that F night after night and not risk damaging your voice. I wouldn't be surprised to find Idina uses a mix, rather than a belt, when performing it live, as this places less strain on the voice when hitting notes that naturally fall at the top of the passagio or in head normally.

Posted: 9/12/04 at 10:33pm

NoDayButToday, what "what???"

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 1:43am

ok...inthemoney...so yeah...whatever...wow...would you like a medal or something for your range? cause congragulations you just met someone with a wider range than you...and just because idina has a lighter tone on some of her higher notes definately doesnt make her a soprano and whatever gave you that idea is in need of a little music help...sopranos have darker tones than altos on higher notes because it is easier for them to hit those notes...altos are lighter because theyre not so used to singing that high...even the best trained alto stil has a light tone on higher notes...and using how she sung "rules" in "rules of someone elses game" is not evidence of her being a soprano with your reasoning anyway because changing your tone causes emotion in the song so that even people that are just listening to the recording and havent seen the show would be able to know what kind of emotion is being expressed at that point...and in defying gravity...the last duet part elphaba and glinda have in the song elphaba has the lower part...in what is this feeling elphaba has the lower part...in one short day elphaba has the lower part..you can probably not hear the low E of "UNlimited" because youre listening to your cd to damn quietly or because your ears onl hear certain notes better than others (and im not making that up...theres actually people like that) or maybe its cause...ooo i know...cause that note blends in with the background music...and to your "in reference to one of your earlier posts" umm i never said anything that you were implying i said...yeah i agree that belting that F night after night would be damaging...but she only hits the F at one spot (the "look" in "so if you care to find me LOOK to the western sky") and seeing as the note isnt that long it would be very hard to belt...but if you listen clostly on the cd its more of a squeak up to it...but seeing as the note isnt that long the untrained ear cant tell...and most likely on stage youve got enough adrenaline rushing to be able to just reach for it for the millisecond that you have to sing it for

[defyinggravity3]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 11:47am

I'm also in defense for that stupid comment "you're only 16 you'll hurt yourself"

i just turned 16 and i can sing that note too... it's not like you're hurting yourself if you can belt or sing it correctly. you have to be taught that, and hopefully she did learn it and not do it incorrectly but otherwise, theres no point in saying you'd hurt yourself singing that way.

[Ebonic_Singer]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 7:14pm

Simmer down ya'll. You all have extensive ranges. The end.

P.S. I've heard Eden riffify and it's insanely awsome at the end. Fs and all that good stuff.

[FOCI]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 8:20pm

So many people here are so full of BS....I doubt half the people on this board have half the ranges they claim to.

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 8:24pm

Please do not refer to it as belting. Belting is essentially dead. When The Merm died, belting went with her. Ask Margo for more details.

[lyfeisacabaret]

Posted: 9/19/04 at 8:45pm

Omg! I can sing the D 2 octaves below middle C and the F 4 octaves above full voice, and I got the part of Elphaba, but I turned it down because it was too easy.
You know, It's times like these that I wish I was a girl so that I could join in on these "range" competitions. I'm sure you can all sing an F times 3 to the 5th power above middle C, and I'm sure Idina can too... I hear she's really Tenor with an extensive head/mix range.

I'm sorry... This is really mean of me. Don't take it personally, it's just that I find these incessant "range wars" really humorous. Oh yea... I do have a valid question... How, exactly, does one distinguish a mix from belt or head voice?

I hope my rudeness hasn't put you all off enough to keep you from answering me!

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/20/04 at 12:23am

i agree that these range competitions are really dumb...and im not trying to compete with anyone...but one of my peeve is when people talk about things as though they know absolutely everything about it and then theyre wrong about a lot
anyway...for your question about distinguishing between belts mixes and head voice...its kind of hard to explain...a lot of people that know what it sounds like when they do it are able to pick it out when other people do...to try and help id say that belts are very strong and full sounding, mixes sound slightly lighter than a belt (it depends on how well the performer is at mixing...some its really obvious that theyr are but others are really good at it and its hard to tell unless youre specifically trained at that kind of thing or have an ear for it) and head voice usually sound much lighter than a belt depending on the singer...altos have lighter head voices than belts but some sopranos can have very strong and full head voices...usually head voice has a lot more vibrato than belts do because the sound is coming out more freely....i hope that answers your question

[rKrispyt]

Posted: 9/20/04 at 10:12am

Alrighty, alrighty, alrighty...chill out y'all!

So my roommate in college is defined as a colorotura (sp?) soprano, hits high E's all over the place, however she also sang for Madame Armfeldt, which are low E's (if I remember correctly - ?) when we did Night Music at school, as well as a lot of alto stuff when we did our recital, just to show off her amazing range...and she's FAR from professional.

My point is that whoever said 'it depends on the performer' was absolutely right. You simply cannot say "oh, she's an alto, therefore I don't believe you that she can hit a high C" cause I'm totally an alto/mezzo and I can do that - I never would by choice cause I don't 'live' up there, but if I had to (in something like Life of the Party say) I could...my roommate could have (and did) sing something like Glitter and Be Gay, followed by Liasons if she wanted to - she just had that capability and training and natural talent to pull from...it's so possible that Idina (and probably a large number of performers on Broadway) has that as well. Look at Kristen - she's singing high E's (though not on the cd I don't think) in that opening number and then is on the lower notes (which are kinda low) for For Good - all I'm saying is that it's possible and it's kinda dumb and pointless to sit here and try to argue that it's not possible.

About her high note in Defying Gravity - I think the highest note in the sheet music is an E (pretty sure) HOWEVER when I saw the show she strayed from the written page and did her own thing with it, going higher than that on all that stuff at the end, and then when I saw a video of a performance, she also went higher than that on one of the 'bring me down's so...if I had done better in Aural Training or had perfect pitch I could tell you what that note was...but she does go higher than an E live.

Also, it's just common sense that you shouldn't be 16 and trying to belt F's...I was always told not to even START voice lessons until I was AT LEAST 16 because it can ruin your voice if you start too early. I used to work for a youth theatre that has kids in voice lessons letting them belt their heads off cause they wanna sound like Idina and Sutton et al from grades 2 up and by the 7th grade all their voices are destroyed!

I think I'd just be careful - you have to learn proper technique for singing and THEN learn proper technique for how to utilize your chest voice before belting anything so that you don't give yourself nodes in a few years, let alone before trying to belt F's. Just be careful, don't get carried away and start doing it in an unhealthy way - that's all I'm saying.

Dang - that got long - sorry bout that...thus endeth my two cents.

[wickedkiwi]

Posted: 9/20/04 at 3:09pm

not that i know anything about ANYTHING but...

i can NEVER tell the difference between a head voice and a chest voice (which is where belts come from). the way i do it is by putting myself in the shoes of the singer. theres a time when u sing when ur voice automatically changes, it sort of hits a switch, and u start sounding different, lighter. if u can notice this switch in another singer, thats when they switch voices. opera singers are so good with head voice (and it sounds belted) because they work so long on those notes (plus they have a natural capacity for them) that the notes gain the strength of those under the chest range.

as for idina: she's on bway, we're not. jjaja so far she's a better singer than any of us, so i think this forum is hardly the place to talk about our personal ranges. i think idina is a soprano, just but what all of u have been saying. its true that its the sound of the voice that defines the range, not the actual range itself. for example, i'm labeled as a soprano, because my voice is high and squeakyish (think idina, sherie rene scott, bette midler, and bernadette peters combined cacophanously, according to me) however, my good notes are the belty chest notes, not the airy head notes. then again, my bottom range, is pathetic. however, probably throughout idina's life (if she's always been so talented) idina has been placed wherever she's been needed. therefore, in songs like take me or leave me, where her fellow singers obviously have a more beautifully gruff sounding alto voice, she sings the high part, to match that singer. and when chenowith sings the melody, menzel is placed in the harmony, which is higher (except in loathing, i think, where its hte other way around). however i may be wrong. the role description for amneris (whom she previously played) describes the role clearly as an alto (then again, it describes the role of aida as alto too, and those voices are EXTREMELY different, so again, i guess its more a matter of where she's put). as for that low note (G? i think) in im not that girl, she doesnt do as good of a job as she does in the olther notes, so its probably just a note that exists due to shwartz's whim rather than idina's range. o...and it isnt that hard to accurately belt that F every night, or even riff it. if she's had ANY classical training (which i recommend highly for everyone, since its the best way to not ruin ur voice - with a good teacher, its worth the money)...she can definetely do this very easily. she probably cant just belt higher than that, i dont think ive ever heard anybody do it, just because its so dangerous to. even to produce that sound by mixing, any higher than an F might be dangerous, i dont know. personally im dying to see someone really belt an A above that, but im starting to think its impossible to do it healthily. (the note she hits in life of the party or whatever is hit completely with a very well trained head voice. which i applaud incredibly!)

also, dont judge her (or anybody) by the cd. u have no idea all the tricks they pull to make stuff sound right. listen to a live performance, which is the best way to naturally measure someone's singing ability, rather than a controlled setting like a recording studio (the tony's is a good one. there's a few slip ups, but i think she did an AMAZING job considering the pressure she was under).

by the way, thnx to whoever mentioned she sang that song in the wild party. i had the cd stored somewhere but had no idea she was even IN it!! im happy cause now i can start singing her songs (sorry, but im extremely typecast, and they only want me singing songs from people who sound even remotely like me. so i can't ever sing as long as he needs me or some other beautifully low sound, but just my squeaky versions of menzel, peters, scott, and midler. so i beat you all, cause im definetely the worst singer!! jajajajjaja

ok this got long...sorry, dont kill me.

[xroger4lifex]

Posted: 9/20/04 at 3:48pm

ok so idina has an amazing voice no matter what was altered technologically on the cd...and i agree that you cant tell ill you see a live performance (i have yet to see wicked but i should be seeing it soon...and my friend and i are making sure that i see it before idina leaves) but her performance at the tonys cant be used as an example of what her voice really sounds like...i mean she did great and didnt wimp out and mix anything...it was all belted...but she was sooo sick...like i wouldnt be able to get out of bed if i was as sick as she was...my friend that saw the tonys plus read stuff about it told me that as soon as they got ehr down and out of the harness thing she like keeled over cause she used up all her energy and was sooo sick...and that taye ran up from the audience to the stage and took her home immediately

[wickedkiwi]

Posted: 9/20/04 at 5:17pm

on the whole being sick during the tony's thing...that's what i meant. i mean, ANYBODY under controlled conditions and optimized settings can sing like ______(insert name of amazing singer here), its what happens during the true knitty gritty (late nights, colds, breakups, exaustion, bad mikes or costumes, dangling over the audience on a harness, etc) that makes the singer. anybody who can sing like THAT while dying of something thats not JUST nerves, and flying over a stage thats not the one she usually flies over, plus the fact that she doesnt have the whole first act to lead up to the performance but must gather the emotion from right then and there...that's a real singer, ladies and gentlemen.

as for ddtruitt's comment, bravo! that sounds exactly right!!

and sorry, i assumed we were talking about idina's classical voice, which we obviously haven't heard. my bad.

[lyfeisacabaret]

Posted: 9/22/04 at 9:39pm

Thanks for the explanation! I can tell the difference between a belt and a head voice, it's just that mix. I guess, as a guy, it's not something that is really ever dealt with. I think I'll ask my voice teacher if she can explain it in more depth, because i really just can't comprehend it. lol... it's times like these that i feel really stupid, well, not really actually. I never feel stupid, because I'm not. What!? someone make me stop talking... lol.

[wickedkiwi]

Posted: 9/23/04 at 6:05pm

yeaa...i guess the reason u mix in the first place is so that nobody notices when u switch, so that it sounds nicer and less rough. so mix notes are in the uppor middle of the range (mine are like, C-F above middle c, and everything above that is usually head, and im learning to mix those too right now (paaaainfullyy hard jejeje, but im also lazy)

yea, i asked a male friend who goes with the same teacher as i do and he says that that stuff DOES exist in males too, but its rarely used and a lot less common. i guess its cause there's no need for it, i dunno. jejeje i think now im going to pay attention to male singers to see if i can tell if there are changes. i know for a fact that stuff like what jean valjean sings in les mis is head voice, so that quiet, almost female or falsetto sounding voice is his head voice. and i think mixing is what a lot of the best singers of rock bands (dream theater specifically comes to mind) do, but im completely speculating here.