Idina's "note" — Page 2

what part of "defying gravity" does she hit the f? is it the "look" in "so if you care to find me look to the western sky"?

---

the "bring me down"s at the end are E's and im positive of that

---

When Eden sang the song, she went up to an F a number of times in that song.

---

ok so yeah...she still an alto...an alto with am amazing range...cause yeah she can sing two c's above middle c but there are other altos that can do that...there is no soprano that can sing the end of "im not that girl" as strong as she does...and she mightve have been a soprano in high school or whatever but shes older than she was then and when you get older you cant sing as high as you used to be able to no matter how much training you go through...so she mightve have been a soprano then but shes an alto now through and through

---

who's dee?

"ok so yeah...she still an alto...an alto with am amazing range...cause yeah she can sing two c's above middle c but there are other altos that can do that...there is no soprano that can sing the end of "im not that girl" as strong as she does...and she mightve have been a soprano in high school or whatever but shes older than she was then and when you get older you cant sing as high as you used to be able to no matter how much training you go through...so she mightve have been a soprano then but shes an alto now through and through "

Er... Not necessarily

I have the same range - D below middle C to the C two octaves above middle C. The MDs in both the amdram companies I'm in, as well as the vocal tutors I've had at home and at Uni all class me as a soprano.

As someone else said, it depends entirely on tone quality. I used to be classed as an alto rather than a sop because I had a darker tone, but as I've got older my tone's become lighter and I'm now classed as a first soprano.

It's noticeable that for power, she belts or mixes the notes rather than sing them in head, and that when she doesn't belt the notes (eg "I'm through with playing by the RULES of someone else's game") Idina has a very light tone. That to me says soprano rather than alto, as altos naturally have a darker tone on the high notes because they place them differently.

In musical theatre terms, she would probably best be called mezzo-soprano, as that is pretty much the only term that fits a woman who can sing both the female "parts". However, in terms of the 4 'voices' in a choir - she's almost certainly a soprano. She definitely seems more comfortable up there (Glinda does much of the low harmony in DEFYING GRAVITY and FOR GOOD - Elphie stays on the higher notes and whilst most of her songs seem to have been tailor-made for Idina's range, the higher the note the stronger her voice seems to be. On my cd I can barely hear the low E of "UNlimited" in DEFYING GRAVITY.).

I'd also add in reference to one of your earlier posts that it IS very difficult to belt that F night after night and not risk damaging your voice. I wouldn't be surprised to find Idina uses a mix, rather than a belt, when performing it live, as this places less strain on the voice when hitting notes that naturally fall at the top of the passagio or in head normally.

ok...inthemoney...so yeah...whatever...wow...would you like a medal or something for your range? cause congragulations you just met someone with a wider range than you...and just because idina has a lighter tone on some of her higher notes definately doesnt make her a soprano and whatever gave you that idea is in need of a little music help...sopranos have darker tones than altos on higher notes because it is easier for them to hit those notes...altos are lighter because theyre not so used to singing that high...even the best trained alto stil has a light tone on higher notes...and using how she sung "rules" in "rules of someone elses game" is not evidence of her being a soprano with your reasoning anyway because changing your tone causes emotion in the song so that even people that are just listening to the recording and havent seen the show would be able to know what kind of emotion is being expressed at that point...and in defying gravity...the last duet part elphaba and glinda have in the song elphaba has the lower part...in what is this feeling elphaba has the lower part...in one short day elphaba has the lower part..you can probably not hear the low E of "UNlimited" because youre listening to your cd to damn quietly or because your ears onl hear certain notes better than others (and im not making that up...theres actually people like that) or maybe its cause...ooo i know...cause that note blends in with the background music...and to your "in reference to one of your earlier posts" umm i never said anything that you were implying i said...yeah i agree that belting that F night after night would be damaging...but she only hits the F at one spot (the "look" in "so if you care to find me LOOK to the western sky") and seeing as the note isnt that long it would be very hard to belt...but if you listen clostly on the cd its more of a squeak up to it...but seeing as the note isnt that long the untrained ear cant tell...and most likely on stage youve got enough adrenaline rushing to be able to just reach for it for the millisecond that you have to sing it for

---

Simmer down ya'll. You all have extensive ranges. The end.

P.S. I've heard Eden riffify and it's insanely awsome at the end. Fs and all that good stuff.

Please do not refer to it as belting. Belting is essentially dead. When The Merm died, belting went with her. Ask Margo for more details.

---

i agree that these range competitions are really dumb...and im not trying to compete with anyone...but one of my peeve is when people talk about things as though they know absolutely everything about it and then theyre wrong about a lot
anyway...for your question about distinguishing between belts mixes and head voice...its kind of hard to explain...a lot of people that know what it sounds like when they do it are able to pick it out when other people do...to try and help id say that belts are very strong and full sounding, mixes sound slightly lighter than a belt (it depends on how well the performer is at mixing...some its really obvious that theyr are but others are really good at it and its hard to tell unless youre specifically trained at that kind of thing or have an ear for it) and head voice usually sound much lighter than a belt depending on the singer...altos have lighter head voices than belts but some sopranos can have very strong and full head voices...usually head voice has a lot more vibrato than belts do because the sound is coming out more freely....i hope that answers your question

---

not that i know anything about ANYTHING but...

i can NEVER tell the difference between a head voice and a chest voice (which is where belts come from). the way i do it is by putting myself in the shoes of the singer. theres a time when u sing when ur voice automatically changes, it sort of hits a switch, and u start sounding different, lighter. if u can notice this switch in another singer, thats when they switch voices. opera singers are so good with head voice (and it sounds belted) because they work so long on those notes (plus they have a natural capacity for them) that the notes gain the strength of those under the chest range.

as for idina: she's on bway, we're not. jjaja so far she's a better singer than any of us, so i think this forum is hardly the place to talk about our personal ranges. i think idina is a soprano, just but what all of u have been saying. its true that its the sound of the voice that defines the range, not the actual range itself. for example, i'm labeled as a soprano, because my voice is high and squeakyish (think idina, sherie rene scott, bette midler, and bernadette peters combined cacophanously, according to me) however, my good notes are the belty chest notes, not the airy head notes. then again, my bottom range, is pathetic. however, probably throughout idina's life (if she's always been so talented) idina has been placed wherever she's been needed. therefore, in songs like take me or leave me, where her fellow singers obviously have a more beautifully gruff sounding alto voice, she sings the high part, to match that singer. and when chenowith sings the melody, menzel is placed in the harmony, which is higher (except in loathing, i think, where its hte other way around). however i may be wrong. the role description for amneris (whom she previously played) describes the role clearly as an alto (then again, it describes the role of aida as alto too, and those voices are EXTREMELY different, so again, i guess its more a matter of where she's put). as for that low note (G? i think) in im not that girl, she doesnt do as good of a job as she does in the olther notes, so its probably just a note that exists due to shwartz's whim rather than idina's range. o...and it isnt that hard to accurately belt that F every night, or even riff it. if she's had ANY classical training (which i recommend highly for everyone, since its the best way to not ruin ur voice - with a good teacher, its worth the money)...she can definetely do this very easily. she probably cant just belt higher than that, i dont think ive ever heard anybody do it, just because its so dangerous to. even to produce that sound by mixing, any higher than an F might be dangerous, i dont know. personally im dying to see someone really belt an A above that, but im starting to think its impossible to do it healthily. (the note she hits in life of the party or whatever is hit completely with a very well trained head voice. which i applaud incredibly!)

also, dont judge her (or anybody) by the cd. u have no idea all the tricks they pull to make stuff sound right. listen to a live performance, which is the best way to naturally measure someone's singing ability, rather than a controlled setting like a recording studio (the tony's is a good one. there's a few slip ups, but i think she did an AMAZING job considering the pressure she was under).

by the way, thnx to whoever mentioned she sang that song in the wild party. i had the cd stored somewhere but had no idea she was even IN it!! im happy cause now i can start singing her songs (sorry, but im extremely typecast, and they only want me singing songs from people who sound even remotely like me. so i can't ever sing as long as he needs me or some other beautifully low sound, but just my squeaky versions of menzel, peters, scott, and midler. so i beat you all, cause im definetely the worst singer!! jajajajjaja

ok this got long...sorry, dont kill me.

---

on the whole being sick during the tony's thing...that's what i meant. i mean, ANYBODY under controlled conditions and optimized settings can sing like ______(insert name of amazing singer here), its what happens during the true knitty gritty (late nights, colds, breakups, exaustion, bad mikes or costumes, dangling over the audience on a harness, etc) that makes the singer. anybody who can sing like THAT while dying of something thats not JUST nerves, and flying over a stage thats not the one she usually flies over, plus the fact that she doesnt have the whole first act to lead up to the performance but must gather the emotion from right then and there...that's a real singer, ladies and gentlemen.

as for ddtruitt's comment, bravo! that sounds exactly right!!

and sorry, i assumed we were talking about idina's classical voice, which we obviously haven't heard. my bad.

---

yeaa...i guess the reason u mix in the first place is so that nobody notices when u switch, so that it sounds nicer and less rough. so mix notes are in the uppor middle of the range (mine are like, C-F above middle c, and everything above that is usually head, and im learning to mix those too right now (paaaainfullyy hard jejeje, but im also lazy)

yea, i asked a male friend who goes with the same teacher as i do and he says that that stuff DOES exist in males too, but its rarely used and a lot less common. i guess its cause there's no need for it, i dunno. jejeje i think now im going to pay attention to male singers to see if i can tell if there are changes. i know for a fact that stuff like what jean valjean sings in les mis is head voice, so that quiet, almost female or falsetto sounding voice is his head voice. and i think mixing is what a lot of the best singers of rock bands (dream theater specifically comes to mind) do, but im completely speculating here.

---