Is WEST SIDE STORY overlooked as a Sondheim musical?

[NathanLaneStalker]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:06am

I've always wondered, are West Side Story and Gypsy overlooked as Sondheim musicals? Sondheim didn't write the music, only the lyrics, and they sound completely different when compared to shows like Sweeney Todd, Company, Into the Woods, Bounce, etc.

I would actually have never guessed that he did work on the music if I didn't know any better.

So, what do ya think?

[Perfectly Marvelous]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:30am

Well, I know that Sondheim considered "I Feel Pretty" one of his most poorly written songs.

I often think that because WSS was his first time as a lyricist, most people really don't focus on that and instead look at Company, or Sweeney Todd - especially since both have been recently revived. And also because of their complexity [as oppose to WSS].

[HeidiPuck]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 7:12am

I think for the non theater-going public, West Side Story is actually one of the only musicals they associate with Sondheim. Possibly because of the movie (a lot of schools will show at least part of the movie when they teach Romeo and Juliet).

[James2]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 8:22am

I think the only way people should look at it is at the movie. I have not seen it on stage, but I can tell from reading the script that the movie is vastly superior. "Cool" and "Gee, Officer Krupke" work much, much better in their places in the movie. If it has to get a Broadway revival, they should rework it to put those songs in their movie places.

[leefowler]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 8:28am

Also, remember that some of the lyrics are written by Bernstein.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 9:43am

WEST SIDE STORY is without a doubt the most well known musical with Sondheim's name attached to it. But, in the case where different writers contribute the music and the lyrics - typically it is the composer that becomes more identified with the project.

Andrew Lloyd Webber, for example, has never written the lyrics for any of his shows, but none of his lyricists have received nearly the attention: people know the shows as "ANDREW LLOYD WEBBER MUSICALS"

In keeping with that idea - WEST SIDE STORY and GYPSY are more closely identified with Leonard Bernstein and Jule Styne than Sondheim.

[dramaqueen2]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 9:48am

west side story is my absolute favorite.
so, i am biased. however, i never really associate the two either some to think of it.
loveeee wss!

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 10:41am

For me, WSS is a Bernstein (and Robbins) musical.

Not to overlook anyone else's contributions, but those two are what make it the amazing piece of theater it is.

I mean, the lyrics particularly to Krupke are wonderful, but it's not as central to the show as is the music to Cool, The Rumble, the amazing execution of the Somewhere dream sequence into a nightmare sequence--it flows, doesn't stop to change the tune, it's just amazing.

Sorry, people should think of Bernstein when they think of WSS.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 10:48am

How would WSS have turned out if Sondheim had done the music as well?

[SDav 10495]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 11:04am

How would WSS have turned out if Sondheim had done the music as well?

Could have been great, could have been awful. I recognize Sondheim's genius, but I am much easier to sell on his lyrics than on his music...a lot of it is fantastic, but I feel like some of it is so self-consciously trying to be smart that it' becomes an annoying Sondheim overload (I always think of "Giants in the Sky", a song that--forgive me--never fails to get on my nerves). It all depends on what style Sondheim would have written West Side Story in--more traditional, or more...Sondheim-y.

In any case, I can't imagine it could ever have matched Bernstein's score. It's perfectly suited to the material, and it's brilliant without being headache-inducing.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:19pm

*points to signature*

The music is just so perfect, I honestly can't imagine anyone improving on it. Sure, Sondheim's a genius, but so is Bernstein, IMO, particularly moreso when it simply comes down to the music.

[Julian2]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:27pm

I think the only way people should look at it is at the movie. I have not seen it on stage, but I can tell from reading the script that the movie is vastly superior."

Well thank the lord we don't just read stage musicals.

"Cool" and "Gee, Officer Krupke" work much, much better in their places in the movie. If it has to get a Broadway revival, they should rework it to put those songs in their movie places.

Ok, you can ask Arthur Laurents and get back to us. If your still breathing. Mr. Laurents would never allow something like that and has a legendary temper.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:52pm

He also didn't write 100 percent of the lyrics.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 3:52pm

double Updated On: 2/17/07 at 03:52 PM

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 4:06pm

Sorry, it's no contest.

Bernstein was a FAR superior composer to Sondheim. And his lyrics were almost as good if not more clever than Sondheim, because they had the cleverness of Sondheim but more heart.

[EponineAmneris]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 4:10pm

True theatre people know, remember and aknowledge it's Sondheim's lyrics. Other's don't care. It's Bernstein's show in most everyone's eyes.

[Broadwayboy2631]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 4:12pm

GYPSY is a better example of Sondheim's lyrics.
Updated On: 2/17/07 at 04:12 PM

[ahmelie]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 4:22pm

Part of Sondheim's genius is that he is able to work with other and turn out amazing material and also have no colaborator and turn out amazing material.

Would West Side Story be the same musical without Bernstein? No. Would it have been better with Sondheim tackling music and lyrics? Probably not, but we'll never know.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 5:36pm

I overlooked the post about the movie...now I do agree that the changing of those two songs were a smart choice in the movie, and adding the guys in to America, but...of course I wasn't privileged enough to see it, but from hearing the OBC, playing the actual score twice and knowing the entire script and stage directions...the movie I don't think reaches the ultimate level that the original production did.

First off, some of the dubbing--if they were going to dub Tony, you'd think they would get someone great, but whoever the guy is pales in comparison to Larry Kert. I get eargasms listen to Larry's "Maria" on the OBC...movie guy, not so much. Probably having to try to conform to the actor's voices on part of the dubbers hindered their singing quality, as I think almost every song sounds better on the OBC. And it is weird watching Rita Moreno seem to be screaming out the words to A Boy Like That but hearing the voice pull back from it.

I certainly understand that it wouldn't make sense to have the ballet in the movie, but it serves a great part in the production. Again, the flow of the music, perfectly going from Somewhere to the music of the Rumble-gah!

But, especially for Bernstein, one of the worst aspects of the movie was the alteration of the score. There's a very interesting story in Keith Garebian's "The making of West Side Story:

"One of the most prized elements of the Broadway show--Leonard Bernstein's score--was turned into a blaring, sometimes grotesque distortion"

Johnny Green, good friend of Lenny's, altered and created the music score. Then he threw a huge party for Lenny, where he would play the soundtrack for the first time. Before the start of the music, he went into a whole schpeel(sp?) about how Lenny was the greatest American composer of this or any other age (true). He called Lenny up to stand beside him as the music started:

"Then the music started, and the score sounded grotesque. The notes seemed to be stretched out inordinately and at an unbearably high pitch. Bernstein screamed: 'Stop that goddamned machine. Whoever gave you the right to play it like that?"

Green later went to Bernstein to explain that a lot of the way the score was changed came from Wise, "but Bernstein declared: 'You have betrayed my trust. You have betrayed me."

Very soon after, Lenny wrote him a note of immense apology and great dignity, and a pair of cufflinks, with both their initials on it aww. One more important note from the book:

"However, this formal and touching apology and demonstration of affection did not alter Bernstein's low opinion of the movie--an opinion supported by Laurents and Sondheim as well."

Turn that goddamn machine off--haha, I love it. Umm so yeah original creators of the show were not pleased with the movie.

"Bernstein was a FAR superior composer to Sondheim. And his lyrics were almost as good if not more clever than Sondheim, because they had the cleverness of Sondheim but more heart. "

I definitely agree that he was a far superior composer(of music) than Sondheim, but...I don't think I can be taken seriously for all that I champion Bernstein for if I agreed about lyrics. I believe Candide was the only show Bernstein actually wrote lyrics for (or is given credit for writing lyrics for)...unless, did he write lyrics for 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue? Anyway, I can't say they are superior based on one show, and even at that one show...they can't compare to some of Sondheim's genius, against the form, but for the form, etc lyrics. That's where I feel Sondheim's true genius lies, and Bernstein's in the music.

"True theatre people know, remember and aknowledge it's Sondheim's lyrics. Other's don't care. It's Bernstein's show in most everyone's eyes."

Well...no I think in most everyone's eyes it's that musical with gangs, Puerto Ricans, or Romeo and Juliet. I would doubt too many non-true theatre people even know who Bernstein is. I remember and acknowledge that Sondheim wrote most of the lyrics, but it's still certainly Bernstein's show in my eyes. (Okay, so I might be just a TAD biased )

BTW, while I'm going on my usual Bernstein-is-genius rant, I'll just quickly throw in that Monday I attended a concert at the NY historical society entitled "The Brilliance of Bernstein" (how appropriate)...in addition to singing his songs, though with only a piano (hrmph), they showed clips of him and his life and major events, etc. It was such a wonderful concert, I was so happy to go.

Okay done with my Bernstein worshipping...for like 5 minutes?

[jasobres]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 6:25pm

Just like Damn Yankees is looked more as a Fosse-Verdon musical than as an Adler-Ross musical, West Side Story is considered more as a Bernstein musical.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 6:53pm

I would doubt too many non-true theatre people even know who Bernstein is


I wouldn't agree, remember Bernstein is a HUGE classical composer too.

And if you haven't heard his lyrics for his Mass, I suggest you take a look, I believe they are all his except for a few by Stephen Schwartz and one line that was a gift from Paul Simon.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 6:56pm

True...non theater people, non classical people, and non musicians? Trust me, I would love it if every single person in the world knew who he was.

Hmm, I've played one of his masses, but haven't heard the lyrics. And actually, almost all of his classical pieces that I've heard are either pure music, or the way I heard it was just the pure music, and for whatever reason, singers weren't included.

[kjklo]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 7:08pm

If you're over 40, you know who Leonard Bernstein was. Believe it or not, his name was a household word back in the 60s and 70s. As for now, I couldn't say. It's difficult to know what exactly, if anything, the average kid is aware of. A smug, collective ignorance seems to be the tone of the times.

[Fenchurch]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 7:19pm

Wicked, Bernstein only wrote one Mass.

And it's a huge theater piece for singers and orchestra, it includes two choirs, a children's chorus, a street band, and a host of other bits and bobs all over the place.

It's an incredible piece. If you had played it, you would have remembered.

Correction: He did write a missa brevis, but you could never confuse the two.

Updated On: 2/17/07 at 07:19 PM

[Horton]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 7:49pm

I think that West Side Story is overlooked by the general public because of his minimal contribution in perspective to hise collaborators (ie. Leonard Bernstein, Arthur Laurents, Jerome Robbins Peter Gennaro)

Also if you listen to the score it just doesnt sound like Sondheim. The interesting rhythms are such an indicator of Bernestein, so many people who know little about theatere have no clue he was involved.