Jeff Loeffelholz suicide news coverage- Page 2

[LightsOut90]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:21am

this is all such a mess

[trpguyy]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:27am

ladypresent said: " the weisslers are multi millionaires..why would they care about 35k (or so)?
"

They’ve literally gone to arbitration over $35. Barry enjoys his reputation of being disgustingly cheap. 

Also, don’t expect AEA to be able to actually investigate anything. The NAMCO office is in the Equity building, which is completely separate from the fact that Equity is inept at pretty much everything. 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:37am

trpguyy said: "ladypresent said: "the weisslers are multi millionaires..why would they care about 35k (or so)?
"

They’ve literally gone to arbitration over $35. Barry enjoys his reputation of being disgustingly cheap.

Also, don’t expect AEA to be able to actuallyinvestigate anything. The NAMCO office is in the Equity building, which is completely separate from the fact that Equity is inept at pretty much everything."

This makes me sick. Jeff deserves a fair investigation. There is a little money in the extended family, but not a drop in the bucket compared to what's needed to battle the Weisslers, if it came to that.

 

 

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 12:37 AM

[mariel9]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:58am

If the Weisslers have hired an attorney to investigate the matter, and there's a chance they had a hand in trying to push Jeff out of the company, who's to say that the lawyer will be unbiased? 

There are entire law firms that just bust unions and do management-friendly "investigations." They're nailing down a favorable version of the facts right now that they can use in future litigation.

 

[blaxx]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 2:32am

How ironic for this to happen in a show that encourages a murderer to razzle dazzle the jury to be set free.

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 4:59am

blaxx said: "How ironic for this to happen in a show that encourages a murderer to razzle dazzle the jury to be set free."

I'm pretty sure this is unnecessary here, but **SPOILER ALERT**

I think we can bet that there will be many editorials with this theme in the months to come. Let's hope the outcome is different than in the musical. Ironic also that the underlying theme of the show is about criminal injustice and the phenomenon of the "celebrity criminal." I'm truly scared that the very end will be the same (acquittal followed by the media and public eye being swept away by the development of newer and more exciting scandals).

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 04:59 AM

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 10:20am

Fox news is reporting the story:

https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/07/07/chicago-cast-members-suicide-probed-after-backstage-bullying-allegations.amp.html

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 10:54am

I really hope that this sparks another #metoo movement which exposes workplace bullying and harassment that people of ALL occupations just accept as a daily thing. This idea that the manager can bully his employees is so pervasive that HR most of the time blames the employee. I actually know of a man who after a public, nasty dressing down by his supervisor had a massive stroke and died the same day. The supervisor showed not an iota of remorse. 

On a more positive note, many Chicago alumni and also workers in the theater have donated money to the gofundme and left some very moving words. Clearly Jeff WAS valued by the people he worked with. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 11:13am

I can't imagine this is easy for the current cast to perform this week with it making the rounds on the news. Still wondering if anyone has seen the show this week if they brought in a new Mary Sunshine standby already? Can't be a comfortable situation right now at the Ambassador.

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 11:17am

Am I missing something here about this happening multiple times? I only see in the links posted that this was about one rehearsal.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 11:23am

morosco said: "What I can't wrap my mind around is why either Walter Bobbie ormusical director Leslie Stifelman would really care about how much it would cost to buy Jeff out of his contract. What would it matter to the two of them? I could be completely wrong and this is just a wild guess but to meit would make sense only ifsomeone very high up within the production perhaps "strongly suggested"toBobbie and Stifelman in a "wink wink" kind of conversation that the two of thembegin a process of stirring sh*t up in order to makeJeff's work environmentintolerable in hopes that he would quit. I just don't understand howthis situation would be something that Bobbie and Stifelman felt compelled to do on their own. I'm not defending the two for their alleged actions, but I feel like they must have gottenpressure from someoneat aproducer level to suddenly behave the way they did.

This is what I was thinking all along.

Did Bobbie and Stifelman have a secret meeting and say, hey we need the show to keep running so we can buy more vacation homes so let's do the producers a favor and bully this guy out of a job, but let's not tell them.

Also if the standby leaves they can't just cancel that contract, they would have to hire someone new at a salary fairly close. So who's saving any money anyway?  In the long run, the money and the bad publicity is far worse than buying out his contract, This story is very sad and tragic for all immediately involved and bad for Broadway and the Theatre in general. My sympathies to his Family, Friends, and co-workers on this senseless loss.

 

[antonijan]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 11:45am

Sounds like a Law and Order mystery. Maybe the NYPD can help.

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 11:51am

ladypresent said: "why would they care about 35k (or so)?
"

How do you think they became millionaires?

[GoblinKing2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:14pm

Impossible2 said: "ladypresent said: "why would they care about 35k (or so)?
"

How do you think they became millionaires?"

You would also think that millionaires would be capable of conducting a cost/benefit analysis and understand the  concept of penny wise and pound foolish.  But something Mosaic Owl said in any another thread (although I’m not sure how his/her gpa figures into it) and now recalling some of my own experiences with some managers is that the sheer joy these sociopaths take in exercising power outweighs the dollars and cents.  After all, Harvey Weinstein could pretty well have bought all kinds of expensive- entertainment-  with no potential damage to him.  But the exercise of power over women probably enthralled him as much as the sexual contact.  As the great philosopher Spock once said “it is NOT logical, but it is often true.”  I still wonder why they chose NOW to make an issue of the man’s contract instead of say, 10 years ago before social media became the dominant form of information distribution.

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 12:14 PM

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:14pm

CurtainPullDowner said: "morosco said: "What I can't wrap my mind around is why either Walter Bobbie ormusical director Leslie Stifelman would really care about how much it would cost to buy Jeff out of his contract. What would it matter to the two of them? I could be completely wrong and this is just a wild guess but to meit would make sense only ifsomeone very high up within the production perhaps "strongly suggested"toBobbie and Stifelman in a "wink wink" kind of conversation that the two of thembegin a process of stirring sh*t up in order to makeJeff's work environmentintolerable in hopes that he would quit. I just don't understand howthis situation would be something that Bobbie and Stifelman felt compelled to do on their own. I'm not defending the two for their alleged actions, but I feel like they must have gottenpressure from someoneat aproducer level to suddenly behave the way they did.

This is what I was thinking all along.

Did Bobbie and Stifelman have a secret meetingand say, hey we need the show to keep running so we can buy more vacation homes so let's do the producers a favor and bully this guy out of a job, but let's not tell them.

Also if the standbyleaves they can't just cancel that contract, they would have to hire someone new at a salary fairly close. So who's saving any money anyway? In the long run, the money and the bad publicity is far worse than buying out his contract, This story is very sad and tragic for all immediately involved and bad for Broadway and the Theatre in general. My sympathies to his Family, Friends, and co-workers on this senseless loss.

The reason production risked the possible turmoil over just paying the buyout is because of a pattern of behavior that until the past week went without consequence. Under the scientific laws of punishment (punishment as a behavioral term in the field of behavior analysis), a specific behavior is less likely to occur in the future if there is a consequence of punishment. Without contingent punishment, the behavior will continue. Not to mention the reinforcing effects of all the actors that quit because of this behavior by production. The law of reinforcement states that a behavior is more likely to occur in the future when there is contingent reinforcement for the behavior. In this case, production was being reinforced for harassment by each target voluntarily quitting as a result of the harassment. It made harassment a continuing pattern of behavior, because it always produced a desirable outcome. I'm not sure if anything quite like this outcome has occurred before, but it most definitely will have a diminishing effect on the harassment, especially if word gets out and there are consequences that are undesirable for those who emitted the behavior. 

 

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:35pm

I think it will be very interesting to see who the new standby is. Perhaps that will shed some light on why these people did what they did.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:44pm

If he hadn’t been on since mid-February, were they putting an understudy on or had the actor playing the role (R. Lowe I believe) simply not missed a show in 4 months?

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:55pm

GoblinKing2 said: "Impossible2 said: "ladypresent said: "why would they care about 35k (or so)?
"

How do you think they became millionaires?"

You would also think that millionaires would be capable of conducting a cost/benefit analysis and understand theconcept of penny wise and pound foolish. But somethingMosaic Owl said in any another thread (although I’m not sure howhis/her gpa figures into it) and now recalling some of my own experiences with some managers is that the sheer joy these sociopaths take in exercising power outweighs the dollars and cents. After all, Harvey Weinstein could pretty well have bought all kinds of expensive- entertainment- with no potential damage to him. But the exercise of power over women probably enthralled him as much as the sexual contact. As the great philosopher Spock once said “it is NOT logical, but it is often true.” I still wonder why theychose NOW to make an issue of the man’s contract instead of say, 10 years ago before social media became the dominant form of information distribution."

You would think so...but I've certainly never met one that wasn't a frugal arsehole and totally devoid of all empathy or conscience.

[GoblinKing2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 12:58pm

adamgreer said: "If he hadn’t been on since mid-February, were they putting an understudy on or had the actor playing the role (R. Lowe I believe) simply not missed a show in 4 months?"

You’ve made me think that maybe his lack of being on stage for four months fed into the psychology behind the producers’ actions and its timing.  If he had been periodically going on, that might have been one thing, but they now perceived (spitefully and illogically) that he was “stealing” from them and not doing anything to earn his salary, so the hell with the contract, he wasn’t getting “one more fXxg dime.”  Which of course, it’s not his fault if the primary actor is a sturdy workhorse - he was paid to be the standby, and he was fulfilling his part of the contract.  

 

 

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 1:08pm

Just my opinion but it feels like we are missing something with this story. If this was happening multiple times at several different rehearsals and a continuing, ongoing thing it certainly would make a lot more sense but from everything I've seen posted it was a 1 time thing.

Now maybe it's just cause I'm a bit more thick skinned but I didn't find the comments in the blog to be that horrible because if you knew they were just saying this stuff and making you do this stuff to get you to debate quitting and had never done this stuff to you in 22 years prior it should be obvious as to what they are up to. All of a sudden he's not singing the song properly? I mean it's really obvious what they were doing. Of course he could have always had underlying issues going on and this just really pushed him over the edge but I don't know the guy and that's just pure speculation.

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 01:08 PM

[ACL2006]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 1:43pm

Well, R. Lowe was out on vacation last month. Instead of Jeff going on during his vacation, someone else was brought in to cover R. Lowe's vacation. R. Lowe typically takes his vacation in the summer and someone is brought in to cover his vacation instead of Jeff going on.

[Tag]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 1:53pm

I think people are overthinking some vast conspiracy.  It seems that the creative team that maintains the show (MD, PSM, dance captain, etc. - the people there everyday) didn't think he was up to a certain standard anymore.  So he wasn't put on for 4 months.  They call in Bobbie and he eventually comes in (late for the call at that) and agrees with the rest of the team.  Their hands are tied to really do anything because of the ROP contract, and the producers are cheap and won't buy-out.  Who even knows if the Weisslers were even aware, or aware of the extent of it?  Would anyone be put on a ROP contract if they knew it would last decades?  Is someone 22 years later performing at the calibre and age appropriateness they used to?  I'm not sympathizing with the production here, but there are always 2 sides to this type of thing.  Should he have been subjected to that rehearsal, of course not.  Should there have been a meeting or private working session, sure.  Should his agent and Equity been involved, of course.  It's a messy situation but I really don't believe their was some calculated effort to make him quit.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 1:55pm

Thanks for the explanations, everyone. Sounds like you know a lot more about the S&M world than I do. 

[Impossible2]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 1:58pm

They could've been like actual adults and sat down and talked to the man. Who knows he may have been bored ****less doing it and gladly come to an arrangement to walk away.

But like most arseholes they took the nasty way out instead.

[jv92]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 2:17pm

Thank you, Ado Annie, for the kind words.

 

I recall some of you on this board partaking in the "Good thing Bob Fosse isn't alive during #MeToo" nonsense, which is fine, but wrong, and not helping victims of sexual abuse in the theatre. Plus, we could use someone like Bob Fosse... or at least someone who behaved the way Bob Fosse did in auditions. There are the stories of Fosse kindly explaining to rejected performers WHY he was rejecting them, wishing them well, and hoping that they crossed paths again. There's the story of Fosse talking with performers auditioning for leading roles (eg. Russell Nype for Billy Flynn) and expressing how much he was looking forward to hearing them sing and read. There's the famous story of Fosse rejecting a perfectly good, perfectly pretty female performer at an audition, explaining to everyone after that he "didn't like the way she talked to the accompanist." There he is, looking out for a colleague, and a lower man on the totem pole.

 

Whatever Mr. Fosse's issues with extramarital affairs were (to put it mildly), the aforementioned behavior is the kind of behavior that should be practiced in the theatre. It's hard enough to face rejection. If you're going to reject, reject honestly and kindly-- don't dismiss and don't condescend either. Of course, there could be stories of Fosse acting badly in auditions, but I've not heard any the way I have of other directors of his and other eras.