Lloyd Webber vs. Puccini — Page 3

I don't think that's exactly what he said.

I agree completely with Best12bars. I've often been amazed at the venom directed at Webber, not necessarily just on this board, but in other places at well. I'm not saying the man is a saint (cause he certainly isn't), but some of the hate generated towards him is baffling. It's like some people feel the need to tear Webber down in favor of enshrining more 'respectable' composers a la Sondheim, Copeland, Bernstein, etc.

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Updated On: 9/5/11 at 01:55 PM

Anyway, getting back to my original post, about the aria from La Fanciulla del West, is there anyone who DOESN'T think this section at 0:42 sounds EXACTLY like "The Music of the Night"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64wUWdKgKU4w#t=00m041s

Is there anyone at all who says there's no similarity or that any similarity is just accidental?

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If Sondheim and Bernstein are such wonderful, respectable composers, shouldn't they know better than to steal?

Yes, PJ is absolutely right. We must all steer this thread back to the original subject of "Here's another reason not to like Andrew Lloyd Webber."

He is the BWW police, after all, and never goes off-topic (or in this case to a PARALLEL TOPIC) himself. And police or authority figures never stoop to the level of "profiling," do they? Of course not.

"This Andy Webber guy appears to be guilty of something, therefore he is."

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Updated On: 9/5/11 at 03:26 PM

Figure it out. You're smart enough.

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James: On a purely enjoyment level, I do happen to like much of Webber's work. I think Evita is brilliant, and enjoy various parts of his other shows (Phantom and. On a more complex level (and I'm sure I'll get the snob comment here) of music in terms of structure, dramatic usage, atmosphere, etc...for me it doesn't quite match the level of a Bernstein. I guess I'll compare Webber to ice cream. It's delicious, fun, and satisfying, but not as deep or fulfilling as, say, a nice healthy chicken dinner with brown rice and vegetables. (That all sounded really weird...)


Best, I understand what you're saying, but I wouldn't go as harsh as that. In a smaller example, the class genius has no right to steal answers/work from someone else just because they've proven before that they are a genius. In fact, people might even be more shocked to find that they would, or even need to steal answers. I think maybe it's more of a "is this a habitual thing that they do?"

PJ had no idea about the Fanciula quote, and using his own words, was appalled by it. Webber in the past has been known to do that often throughout his music. Therefore, to some it feels like the next in the line of what he has already done in the past. I don't know what his reaction would be if Sondheim had done the same thing. My guess *please don't kill me PJ!!! O:)* is that he wouldn't be quite as appalled.

Perhaps this is all just the way things are. Is it right? Probably not, but that's how it is.

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Well, if I went to a Steve Reich concert and heard the pieces B12 just linked, no, I wouldn't be appalled.

(Frankly, they don't sound anything like Sunday in the Park.)

But my experience of the Puccini opera was interrupted the 3 or 4 times that the love theme was played because all I could hear was "Turn your face away from the (something) light of day..."

It was funny at first, then bizarre, and finally completely distracting.

Nothing like those Steve Reich links.

Here, click on this again, close your eyes--you'll think you're listening to the Italian cast album of Phantom:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64wUWdKgKU4w#t=00m041s

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Sondheim's 8 choices of music he wouldn't want to be without when interviewed in 1980 and again in 2000...

Interesting to see which figure on both lists.



Second interview downloadable.

Updated On: 9/5/11 at 04:43 PM

Those links you posted of Steve Reich seem to be a lot more similar rhythmically than melodically to "Color and Light."


P.S. I didn't think I'd ever see someone bring up Steve Reich on these boards. :)

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"Two beats of double sixteenth notes is all they share in common. They're not even the same intervals."

It's two bars, and they are.

I just listened to both. It's not two bars and not the same intervals. The Batman theme song just keeps repeating the same two beats for four bars and then starts modulating. Damned for All Time uses a similar structure for the first two beats with different intervals, then changes. It's one bar that vamps then alternates with a one-bar tag that repeats before the vocals kick in.

I'm not necessarily condoning the act of stealing melodies, however, I'd say that based upon their entire body of work, there is some sort of "justification" for composers like Puccini, Bernstein, and Sondheim to quote/borrow once in a while.

"Condoning" and "justification" sound pretty much the same in that sentence. Besty pretty much covered all the same ground I was going to cover. But yes, I understood it exactly the same way Besty interpreted.

Anyway, getting back to my original post, about the aria from La Fanciulla del West, is there anyone who DOESN'T think this section at 0:42 sounds EXACTLY like "The Music of the Night"

Yes, there are almost two full bars that sound the same. I have absolutely no clue as to whether it was intended or accidental.

That's the third proposal he's had on this site this year!!!

Wait...third? I must have missed one.

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Clearly Steve Reich is George!