NYT: New York Moves to Clean Up Times Square After a Spate of Crimes

[MezzA101]

Posted: 7/4/24 at 5:50pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/04/nyregion/crime-times-square-nyc.html?unlocked_article_code=1.4k0.wPBY.DfvXJM0fsU0c

[stagepotato]

Posted: 7/4/24 at 6:10pm

I have a lot to say about this but I’ll keep it short and simple.
 

First: Clean up Times Square, the problem drug addicts and homeless will relocate to new neighborhoods. It’s crime mapping 101. You’re not fixing the issue, just moving it  

Second: Why is there a decrease in crime? Is more law enforcement on the streets? Or are crimes not getting reported as often? Because walk up and down 8th Ave, I can count how many cops are out there on one hand. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy that crime rates are down. But what are they doing now (or not doing now) to see that drop. 

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 12:18pm

They are saying that most major crimes are down. I suspect that those are also the reported crimes. I feel it is the many unreported crimes that are the problem.

I moved away last year after two incidents in the Times Square area. One in broad daylight at 2:00 in the afternoon on 44th between 8th and 9th. (I did not report them as there were no police around and the people ran off.) I had colleagues who were harassed and/or robbed walking down 8th to Port Authority and Penn Station from work at 9:00 in the evening. (Not reported) I honestly think that it is these smaller crimes that have people scared along with those we hear about. And word gets around. So many times at shows I have been told or overheard people saying they are afraid to go into the city at night. I was in line at a show where a woman got pick pocketed. Something I had not heard about happening in years, but maybe it still happens. 

Also, it isn't only the crime that scares people but people begging for money and homeless people. It makes people uncomfortable. Especially people visiting from places where it is not common. So they can tout that major crime is down but I feel it is all of the smaller crimes that are a big part of the problem. 

I will say that I was already planning to move but was going to wait until this year or next year. After the incident with the drug dealer in the afternoon I felt that I could see where things were going and made the decision to move. I left 4 months after.  Just my thoughts and opinions.

Updated On: 7/5/24 at 12:18 PM

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 1:45pm

Some of you may recall my anecdote of my sister and her family visiting in the most recent thread about NYC crime before this one. If you recall, she reserved a hotel room right at 8th Avenue and 36th Street, which is Junkie Central/Migrant Nightmare/Crime/Hotspot etc. I stayed there too, at 8th Avenue and 38th Street. Her family is staunchy Pro Trump and Fox News and all that, so I expected them to be lamenting the miserable filth that NYC has turned into. 

And it's true. Late at night, coming back to my hotel, I did have to walk through a group of n'er-do-wells. Don't know if they are homeless, drug addicts, migrants, a combo, or just young people with nothing to do. The next few nights, the police were there and "those people" were nowhere to be seen. I thanked the police for their presence. As I caught a taxi for EWR in the afternoon, a homeless man propped open the door to the nearby bodega and held out his hat for people to give money. A cop jumped out of his car and talked the guy into leaving. 

My sister's family and I went ALLLL OVER MANHATTAN via subway, from 8am to past midnight. The only people we saw were families, people reading books, and the biggest group were people engrossed in their phones. 

I dont' want to dismiss worries about crime in the area because I'm thankful that me and my family and all of you can come to midtown and be safe, so I'm not saying that my anecdote is indicative of anything.  I love to see a huge police presence and I love to feel safe, especially in Times Square. 

That said, I used to always take the 1 downtown after an evening Broadway show and visit some of my old bars on Christopher Street. I no longer do that because of the menacing vibes I felt the last few times I was down there late at night. 

[uncageg]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 2:28pm

Here is the other thread on the subject started on June 2nd after the NY Post article...

 

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1159549

 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 2:42pm

Phantom4ever said: "
That said, I used to always take the 1 downtown after an evening Broadway showand visit some of my old barson Christopher Street. I no longer do that because of the menacing vibes I felt the last few times I was down there late at night."

The menacing vibes of Christopher Street in the West Village? That is one of the safest neighborhoods in the city- extremely wealthy to the west, NYU to the east, a major tourism site during the day and a prime going-out area at night.

 

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 4:06pm

Yeah honey I know all that, that's why I spent my 20s and 30s practically living at those bars. BUT when I walk down Christopher toward the river, farther from 7th Av near the PATH station, it does not feel safe at all. It never really did, even in the late 2000's, but it was manageable because there were always so many people around, even at 3am. It's not like that lately. 

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that wealthy neighborhoods don't have street crime? The West Village has a rather new and well-publicized problem of people stealing purses, phones, and coats from restaurant-goers and bar flies. And Christopher Street down toward the piers  has had occasional muggings since forever. Do I feel safe in Sheridan Square and at or near the Duplex or Monster or Pieces?  Hell yes. Do I feel safe walking down to the Hangar by myself on a rainy Tuesday night?  hell no.  

[MezzA101]

Posted: 7/5/24 at 4:14pm

Phantom4ever said: "Yeah honey I know all that, that's why I spent my 20s and 30s practically living at those bars. BUT when I walk down Christopher toward the river, farther from 7th Av near the PATH station, it does not feel safe at all. It never really did, even in the late 2000's, but it was manageable because there were always so many people around, even at 3am. It's not like that lately.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that wealthy neighborhoods don't have street crime? The West Village has a rather new andwell-publicized problem of people stealing purses, phones, and coats from restaurant-goers and bar flies. And Christopher Street down toward the piers has had occasional muggings since forever. Do I feel safe in Sheridan Square and at or nearthe Duplex or Monster or Pieces? Hell yes. Do I feel safe walking down to the Hangar by myself on a rainy Tuesday night? hell no."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/05/nyregion/nyc-restaurant-robberies.html?unlocked_article_code=1.400.QhJs.9oep-JHEDuMR

 

[Theater3232]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 10:12am

Crimes have been reported at/near Houston St on the 1 and I have personally seen a loiterers there pacing back & forth, charging their phones, coming very close to people.  To those who say 'crime will move elsewhere", the 1990s and 2000s prove that's a false statement.  While I have street smarts, many people I know feel uncomfortable now and will not ride the subway at any time under any circumstances.  The guy on the D train this week spreading his legs blasting his music and looking around, was just looking to start a fight.  Like I had posted previously, the vibe on 22nd and 8th in the 2000s when I went to Big Cup versus the creepy vibe now is quite different.  Also 14th and 7th is night and day from the 2000s vs today; just the other night at 9pm I saw a guy screaming at the top of his lungs there. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 11:32am

Kine of crazy with all of the events people are describing in this thread none of them are actually crimes and are instead just people like... existing in a place you don't want them to. Curious. 

[kingjames2]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 12:25pm

TheatreFan4 said: "Kine of crazy with all of the events people are describing in this thread none of them are actually crimes and are instead just people like... existing in a place you don't want them to. Curious."

Right??? Almost as if discomfort is not the same thing as being unsafe!

[binau]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 12:45pm

TheatreFan4, assuming that the claims are accurate (I don't know), I don't think it's unreasonable that people feel a little unsafe living around drug addicts on the streets or homeless people - regardless if any actual crime has been committed or not.

It's almost like you're implying neither is a problem and that actually it's simply the fault of posters because of their prejudical attitudes towards them. Of course, people should be respectful to all kinds of people - including or even especially those that might be struggling - but at the same time it seems very naive to metaphorically bury your head in the sand and pretend that these groups don't cause problems and that the solution to everything is to ignore, ignore, say yes, smile and nod. And just because someone is calling out these problems does not make them an awful bigoted person or whatever you are implying by using the word 'curious'.

Like anything, it feels like there are two extremes in societies - those that want to vilify marginalised people and show a lack distinct of caring for those that are suffering, and those who want to say yes to everything and everyone without thinking that sometimes there are negative consequences of this too (or recognising that certain problems can even exist in society).  

Can't we have some sanity where we recognise it can't be either of those extremes? We need to be able to honest and speak openly and honestly about problems in good faith where they exist.

Maybe in years gone by when the world was more peaceful and less economically strained it would have been the easy accurate response to imply that there is no problem and it's just prejudice and fear mongering, but the world has changed and is changing every day. Across continents, We've been through a pandemic, multiple wars, climate events, economic crises, instability in previously stable governments etc. this is obviously going to cause tension and a bit of shock to our various systems and have a profoundly negative impact on many people, to which is becoming more real to people every day because we're not just seeing various social and economic events happen on the news it's observable in the very streets we live, work and walk in. 

I don't know what the solution to these complex problems are, but I definitely know it cannot be to pretend it doesn't exist or to ignore it. Sometimes I wish we could go back to 2007/Obama 2008 instead of this dystopia we live in today. Unfortunately, that isn't the world we live in anymore. And I think it seems absurd that there is a minority of people (I can see attitudes changing now) pretend that we are still living in those times. 

Updated On: 7/6/24 at 12:45 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 1:09pm

What I begrudge is people citing the existence of Unhoused, drug addicts, "migrants" who are not doing anything criminal activity to you as some big boogeyman. As if (somehow) when crime was lower that these people just did not exist the city and interaction (or even just seeing them) was a rare occasion. Homelessness has increased for a REASON and it's from policies in the city that pushed more people onto the street. Applauding law enforcement for making the area around your hotel less unsightly in an afternoon is not them making things better. These people are still here in this city. Is it a problem? YES! Absolutely! Mostly for the people suffering under it, not for those who unfortunately have to be bystanders to it. It's lack of housing, it's lack of mental health support, it is several factors. Unhoused people do not start out at the bottom you so often see them at and frequenting an area that has "local" unhoused people, you can see them get worse. Not worse criminally, but in their own mental health. The further you go down that path, the harder it becomes to pull them back out. Juggling these people around the city is not the resolution. 

All I ever see in these threads is people decrying having to see them or interact with them and not ever talking about the "Why" of it all or how to fix it. Cop presence isn't going to fix ****, they're just there to bust up groups and make them disperse so they can move elsewhere. 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 1:14pm

Thank you for saying it more politely than I could, TheatreFan. I’m hearing a lot of talking points from “well-meaning Liberals” that sound awfully similar to the “crazy Right-wingers” they claim to not be at all like. Fear-mongering propaganda affects more than just Fox News loyalists.

[binau]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 1:25pm

Theatrefan4, I agree with the second part of the post but the first part of the post still feels very naive - When you use the term 'Boogeyman' it implies that there is no real problem or potential threat and that it's essentially a delusional attitude to hold. Come on. I really don't believe you think this. I'm not referring to any population in particular except any marginalised population throughout the world or history of time suffering economic deprivation and (sometimes) concurrent mental health issues. I don't even think this is controversial. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 1:26pm

It's the hand wringing from older people who I KNOW lived here in the 80s and 90s complaining about how bad these situations are knowing full well how much safer this city is now comparatively. As if dealing the after math of a global pandemic in one of the hardest hit cities in the world isn't going to have any long term effects that are going to take time and resources. They're fighting for a time almost a decade before the pandemic that didn't even exist 5 years before the pandemic.

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 1:36pm

binau said: "Theatrefan4, I agree with the second part of the post but the first part of the post still feels very naive - When you use the term 'Boogeyman' it implies that there is no real problem or potential threat and that it's essentially a delusional attitude to hold. Come on. I really don't believe you think this. I'm not referring to any population in particular except any marginalised population throughout the world or history of time suffering economic deprivation and (sometimes) concurrent mental health issues. I don't even think this is controversial."

I've lived here for the past year and work in both Union Square and 1st Ave off 14th. I encounter unhoused people in various states all day every day and haven't once had a negative interaction with any of them. I expect the fears coming from tourists who typically coming in with racist and classist (even if just subconsciously) mindsets to be shocked and appalled. What I don't expect it from is New Yorkers (or those who have lived here in the past) who should know better. That guy sleeping on the street or trying to hold the door open for some change are not a ****ing danger to you. People existing are not a danger to you.

[Kad]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 2:49pm

Phantom4ever said: "Yeah honey I know all that, that's why I spent my 20s and 30s practically living at those bars. BUT when I walk down Christopher toward the river, farther from 7th Av near the PATH station, it does not feel safe at all. It never really did, even in the late 2000's, but it was manageable because there were always so many people around, even at 3am. It's not like that lately.

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that wealthy neighborhoods don't have street crime? The West Village has a rather new andwell-publicized problem of people stealing purses, phones, and coats from restaurant-goers and bar flies. And Christopher Street down toward the piers has had occasional muggings since forever. Do I feel safe in Sheridan Square and at or nearthe Duplex or Monster or Pieces? Hell yes. Do I feel safe walking down to the Hangar by myself on a rainy Tuesday night? hell no."

I feel like you’re writing from an alternate dimension. I’ve lived in the city since 2008 and you are the only person I have ever encountered to find the western side of the West Village in any way “menacing” or even having the perception of a lack of safety, particularly after the substantial cleaning up of the piers and the creation of the Hudson River Greenway, Little Island, and the transformation of the Meatpacking District into a luxury shopping and nightlife area.  Does crime happen there? Sure. Crime happens literally everywhere, especially in an extremely densely populated city. But it is not happening at a high rate in that neighborhood. In fact, it’s not happening at a high rate in nearly all of Manhattan. 
There is a massive perception problem here, for sure. Post pandemic there are indeed more people doing intravenous drugs in public in some areas (particularly midtown, also in my neighborhood of East Harlem), more visible homeless people, more people on the streets generally.  Seeing it can be disturbing or troubling. But these folks are also, despite some high profile exceptions, not necessarily driving violent crime. Having someone panhandling or even someone ranting and raving on the street is not indicative of whether or not the neighborhood is “safe.”

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 4:25pm

I mean the thing is that feeling safe is a personal perception.  Some of the things we see on the streets are not inherently dangerous or violent or an indication of criminal activity, but people who aren't used to cities may not feel safe witnessing it.  Perhaps it's an indication of their insular life, or maybe it's racism/xenophobia, but if they don't feel safe they wouldn't want to come to NYC again (and may spread the word that NYC isn't safe), and then we end up in this same situation where people outside of NYC get this perception that it's the most dangerous city in the country and it's not worth visiting.  And when there are visible issues on the streets here that aren't present in other countries, it may also deter tourism from abroad as well.  I hear it from people overseas a bunch where they claim that NYC is full of homeless people and drug addicts and trash etc etc after visiting, which may be overblown but it still conveys a public perception of how NYC stacks up as a city compared to other places around the world.

I'm not saying those opinions are necessarily accurate, but they can have an effect on how people think about whether or not they want to visit.

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 4:45pm

The mayor did a fantastic job of getting rid of the rats, so if he says he’s gonna clean up Times Square, I believe him. My issue is, it go far enough.  They need to get rid of the characters walking around, the guys selling fake Gucci, shut down the row hotel, arrest the creeps begging for money outside the 7/11s. Theres much to do but if he wants to clean up the crack heads and homeless, that’ll be a good start. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 5:13pm

Broadway Flash said: "The mayor did a fantastic job of getting rid of the rats, so if he says he’s gonna clean up Times Square, I believe him. My issue is, itgo far enough. They need to get rid of the characters walking around, the guys selling fake Gucci, shut down the row hotel, arrest the creeps begging for money outside the 7/11s. Theres much to do but if he wants to clean up thecrack heads and homeless, that’ll be a good start."

*gestures at the racism and classism*

Like... where are you living in this city that don't see rats? Do you not take the subway? Been outside after nightfall? I'm just really confused by this take that the rats have been "gotten rid of" lol. 

You want your perfect little utopia that doesn't include unhoused people, but you don't actually want HELP for them you just want them to be punished for disturbing your sightlines walking down the street. 

Updated On: 7/6/24 at 05:13 PM

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 5:47pm

I’ve been walking past the same guy with a cup, and asking for money on the corner of 54th and 8th for 10 years now. Get a job. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 6:27pm

Broadway Flash said: "I’ve been walking past the same guy with a cup, and asking for money on the corner of 54th and 8th for 10 years now. Get a job."

So glad that you've managed to crack that hard concept for him, I wonder what's preventing him from doing so! I bet he goes home at night to his fabulous penthouse very content with himself that he managed to swindled thousands out of the hands of people on the street assuming he was homeless. Homelessness is such a high paying career.

Really not beating those classist racist allegations, dumbass. I do still wanna know where in this city you go that you don't see rats. I'm very interested in the answer.

Updated On: 7/6/24 at 06:27 PM

[Broadway Flash]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 6:36pm

There’s been a noticeable different from just two years ago. I used to see them everywhere, midtown, downtown, uptown, especially late at night eating $hit and running around in the garbage bags on the streets.  They were literally EVERYWHERE, and in huge amounts too.  now we don’t see them nearly as much. Don’t u agree??  I think the city started poisoning them and killing them off.  Businesses also can’t put their trash out before a certain time now. It’s literally this mayors biggest success story, taking on the rats. 

Updated On: 7/6/24 at 06:36 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/6/24 at 6:48pm

Broadway Flash said: "There’s been a noticeable different from just two years ago. I used to see them everywhere, midtown, downtown, uptown, especially late at night eating $hit and running around in the garbage bags on the streets. They were literally EVERYWHERE, and in huge amounts too.now we don’t see them nearly as much. Don’t u agree?? I think the city started poisoning them and killing them off. Businesses also can’t put their trash out before a certain time now. It’s literally this mayors biggest success story, taking on the rats."

Literally every single block after night fall in every season, what are you talking about?

I live in a brand new building in Brooklyn in Bedstuy, they're in our trash every single night. 

Updated On: 7/6/24 at 06:48 PM