Ogie in Waitress (contains Spoilers)- Page 2

[After Eight]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 11:36am

"Perhaps that while the other characters are basically good people, just doing inappropriate things (handled often in a cute way).."

 

This I guess is the crux of my question regarding the doctor. Was he basically a good person doing inappropriate things, or a deceitful crud? I feel he was the latter. I'm wondering why we are supposed to think otherwise --- because he liked her pies?

[broadwayguy91]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 11:43am

@A8: it's possible that the Doctor had a bit of a savior complex.

I think your interpretation of the doctor as a 'crud' is valid, but from Jenna's perspective, Dr Pomatter helped her to feel like she was worth something. that she was worthy of being loved and loving in return. In the musical, he actually buys her a gold-plated pie dish and asks her to teach him how to bake a pie - showing that he is genuinely interested in her as a person and that their affair goes beyond a simple desire for sexual satisfaction.

Updated On: 6/27/16 at 11:43 AM

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 11:53am

After Eight said: ""Perhaps that while the other characters are basically good people, just doing inappropriate things (handled often in a cute way).."

 

This I guess is the crux of my question regarding the doctor. Was he basically a good person doing inappropriate things, or a deceitful crud? I feel he was the latter. I'm wondering why we are supposed to think otherwise --- because he liked her pies?

 

"

No but both he and Jenna were aware of his marital status. They are both wrong, not just him. And no not because he liked her pies but because he liked her. 

Both got caught up in the moment and their feelings for each other in spite of it being wrong. But both wound up doing the right thing in the end..even if Jenna is the one who initiated it. 

Technically he's more at fault because he's the one who's actually married but he's also being presented as human, which imo is the issue I have with Earl. He's a black/white character in a field of grays. 

Updated On: 6/27/16 at 11:53 AM

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 1:16pm

Ogie came across entirely as a scary, creepy stalker to me while he was singing his first song in the diner about never leaving no matter whether she wants him to leave or not, and her reaction is also one of being upset by his refusal to honor her wishes and leave her alone.  It is only because she discovers his war re-enactment activities that she eventually becomes interested in him and decides to date him, but my reaction to that decision was like watching a character enter an abandoned building a horror movie (internal dialogue: "no! don't go there!  don't date your creepy stalker!".

I think artscallion's insight is a very good one - it is showing how even something that ends up seeming romantic if it becomes consensual can be abusive if it is not consensual (in this case, romantic attention and demand for same from the target of it).

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 1:22pm

PJPan said: "Side question (I can't remember) - does anyone remember Ogie's full name?"

Ogie Herbert Anhorn. In the movie I think Dawnn mentions Ogie is short for Oklahoma.

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 2:43pm

ChairinMain said: "PJPan said: "Side question (I can't remember) - does anyone remember Ogie's full name?"

Ogie Herbert Anhorn. In the movie I think Dawnn mentions Ogie is short for Oklahoma.

 

"

She's mentions Oklahoma in the musical as well.

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 3:45pm

This is a bit of a threat Jacking but it's a related topic, and hopefully can be answered fairly quickly: in the film, Jenna is pretty quick to shutdown any discussion of terminating her pregnancy even though she's very clear she doesn't want the baby, and the only other mention of the subject is a crass comment made by Earl when he finds out of pregnancy. Does the musical address this question at all? 

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:07pm

I don't remember the details of the film..but here it's mentioned at the first doctor visit.. with her saying she really doesn't WANT the baby, but she would not terminate (in the middle of a little joke actually). I don't remember it being discussed/mentioned with Earl at all.

[mailhandler777]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:16pm

KathyNYC2 said: "Technically he's more at fault because he's the one who's actually married but he's also being presented as human, which imo is the issue I have with Earl. He's a black/white character in a field of grays."

 

Jenna is married too and she's the one that kisses him first in the scene leading up to Bad Idea.

[ChairinMain]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:18pm

In the film, Earl says the following: "I'd tell you to get rid of it, but I want you in the same place as me in the hereafter, if you know what I mean." Which...Lord.

[kreichelt]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:24pm

I felt the portrayal of Earl at the ART was much more realistic.  On Broadway, I thought, "Man, why did Jenna ever fall for that loser?"   But at the ART, there was a charm to the abusive, jealous, manipulative Earl.  You saw why she might have fallen for him.  He seemed to have a third dimension in Cambridge that was lost in the move to Broadway.

[KathyNYC2]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:24pm

mailhandler777 said: "KathyNYC2 said: "Technically he's more at fault because he's the one who's actually married but he's also being presented as human, which imo is the issue I have with Earl. He's a black/white character in a field of grays."

 

Jenna is married too and she's the one that kisses him first in the scene leading up to Bad Idea.

 

"

YES that is completely true... I guess it seems somewhat more understandable...because Earl is just the devil... while the doc's wife is so nice. But it's funny that actually didn't think about it until you mentioned it..LOLOL  That's pretty bad..

I did say that morality is somehow OFF in this show..

[NJ_BroadwayGirl]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 4:44pm

KathyNYC2 said: "I don't remember the details of the film..but here it's mentioned at the first doctor visit.. with her saying she really doesn't WANT the baby, but she would not terminate (in the middle of a little joke actually). I don't remember it being discussed/mentioned with Earl at all."

This is correct, regarding the musical. Basically Jenna says she doesn't really want the baby and the doctor says (paraphrasing all here) "oh we don't do..." And she cuts him off and says "oh no, not that I judge that, but I'm keeping the baby I'm just not all that happy about it" 

[Taryn]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 7:31pm

kreichelt said: "I felt the portrayal of Earl at the ART was much more realistic.  On Broadway, I thought, "Man, why did Jenna ever fall for that loser?"   But at the ART, there was a charm to the abusive, jealous, manipulative Earl.  You saw why she might have fallen for him.  He seemed to have a third dimension in Cambridge that was lost in the move to Broadway."

This is one thing the movie got very well.  (Well, I think the movie did a lot of things very well, as I think it's a fantastic movie.)  Jeremy Sisto was really excellent as Earl.  I found how much he seemed to be played for laughs in the Broadway production to be really off.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 8:37pm

After Eight said: "I didn't see the movie, but in the show I found him to be an obnoxious jerk. And I couldn't stand that song."

This time I agree with After Eight one hundred percent. I found Ogie to be the most obnoxious character from any musical that I can recall. Even after his big song, I thought he was a terrifying stalker, and I was disappointed that the creators gave him such an unambiguous happy ending with Dawn. I was hoping against hope that this "charmer" would be exposed as a bad guy in the second act, à la Rolf in The Sound of Music.

Unlike others, I did not think that Christopher Fitzgerald's incredibly hammy performance made things any better. I try to reserve the word "hate" for things that actually harm me, but I cannot overstate my dislike for this character and this performance.

 

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 6/27/16 at 9:14pm

I've worked/seen the show a fair amount. I had always felt that Ogie was someone who, well intentioned and good natured, was nerdy and socially awkward. However, I felt that, at least in the show (never saw the movie) that Dawn is the same as well which is why they end up being a good pair for one another. That at first Dawn thinks that there's something very off-putting about him, but, when she discovers their love of American history/ the Civil War, that's something that I feel is a turning point for Dawn.

I feel that in the show, they made him to be a little socially awkward and quirky. I never read the song as weird or odd, but more highlighting that fact. The little socially awkward quirks are things that I felt Dawn thought were odd and off putting at first, were things that she ended up finding sweet and endearing. 

[Imogen R]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 5:38pm

I think everyone’s kinda missing the point!
Ogie in the musical is yeah, kinda creepy, but it’s what Dawn needs. She is insecure and in “Soft Place to Land” she is singing about how she hopes to one day have a relationship with someone who truly loves her. She needs to feel like she her partner is constantly there for her. That’s where Ogie comes in. To most human beings, if we went on a date with a character like Ogie, we would instantly run away. And I feel like Dawn runs away because she doesn’t feel ready. Then he comes and refuses to leave the diner showing Dawn that he’s not going anywhere any time soon. And this is what Dawn needs.

As for Dr Pomatter, he shows Jenna that she is worthy of being truly loved. She’s been in an abusive relationship her whole life. Although yes, what they are doing is wrong and that behaviour shouldn’t be condoned, I think he’s a pivotal character for Jenna.

[LesWickedly]

Posted: 11/1/17 at 6:12pm

I still think Ogie is problematic, but kudos to you for having such strong feelings that you had to bring this over year old thread back?