Other SWEENEY movie cast members - LET THE SPECULATION BEGIN- Page 10

[Theatreboy49]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 2:49pm

whether or not HBC auditions for roles i think she would make a wonderful beggar woman. I think what could work and would be cool is to sort of start it like the doyle production where they have an older Toby in an insane asylum and they could use that to sing the ballad of sweeney todd (having the organ for the credits) and then they can release him from the straight jacket, let him sing as if he is telling the story. Then they can have a kid play toby in the acutal story. I just think if its done like i think it could be itd be awsome. And im all for a star name for the Judge. I like the idea of Christopher Lee. And i really would love cyndi lauper for lovett.

[xoxRogue]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 2:58pm

While I have no idea if he can sing: Ian Mckellen as The Judge.

I, too, jump on the Christopher Lee bandwagon.

[Theatreboy49]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:09pm

I want to elaborate on my idea. Try to visuilize the following.

The credits are shown as the overture plays. The tittle Sweeney Todd drips down in red. Then a little spec of light is shown and its the tiny window of toby's cell. Then from the darkness the door is opened and a person walks in. They let toby out of a straight jacket and sit down across from him at a table. Toby begins to sing the ballad as a solo (like mano did in the doyle production). And as he sings about what sweeney did there can be flashes of all his victims and show toby as a little boy witnessing them.

I think itd be amazing.

[Sumofallthings]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:14pm

I don't care what part but I want Rachel McAdams in a film. I don't even know if she can sing but she is so gloriously talented. That young woman, mark my words, will be winning an academy award at some point in her career.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:36pm

Very interesting Theatreboy. I had a similar idea. When I saw the Doyle interpretation I thought it had a great concept that would translate to film well. Only the only actor I would have playing an instrument would be Toby. This is how I envisioned the opening scene.

Only mine opened with a shot of a sign for "Bedlam Asylum" with the date underneath and the camera pans backward showing the entire building. Then you see a member of Scotland Yard walking up the path toward the building and inside...down a long white hall carrying a black case.

He hands the case to a man in a white lab coat who brings it into a small room where there are a number of doctors sitting at a long table. The man places the black case on the table and slowly opens it, extracting a violin. He slowly walks it over to the other side of the room where Toby is sitting in a straight jacket. A nurse comes in and undoes the jacket. The doctor holds out the violin and Toby just stares at it for a second then slowly reaches out and takes it from him. The doctor sits down at the table while Toby trembles a little as he places the violin on his shoulder as he softly plays the melody to "Not While I'm Around." An image of Mrs. Lovett being pushed into the oven flashes briefly and Toby shudders and stops playing.

The nurse places her hand on Toby's shoulder and gives him a comforting smile. He looks up at her briefly and lifts his violin again. He begins to play "Attend the Tale..." as the camera pans past him through the back wall of the room which fades into London a few months ago.

That's all I got so far. I thought it was a pretty good idea.

Updated On: 8/18/06 at 03:36 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:40pm

I'm pretty sure John Doyle would sue Tim Burton if the cast suddenly broke out playing instruments on film.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:42pm

Yea, I know.

This is more my idea if Doyle's concept were to be adapted for the screen. Only Toby would be the only one playing an instrument.

[2]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 3:57pm

If they did do that in the beginning, then I say cast Mano as grown-up Toby. But yeah, Doyle would probably sue.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 4:01pm

I know Johnny Depp saw the current Broadway production. Has Tim Burton? I doubt he would use anybody from the John Doyle production in leading roles, but I suppose there is always a possibility they could score some small roles somewhere if he loved the production.

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 4:07pm

Wow, do you know ANYTHING about film? It's not going to be a rehash of the revival, it's going to be a period piece, not an abstract interpretation.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 4:18pm

Hey Stiletto, get a life.

I never said "this is how the film should be."

I clearly said this is how I envisioned the opening scene to be if the Doyle concept were translated to film.

Learn. to. read.

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 4:50pm

I was replying to a post higher up the thread, I think. Also, incidentally, I can read, and slinging around the Doyle interpretation is still a ridiculous idea on all counts. It's as stupid as filming the Empire State Building for five hours. Anyone who has any concept of the way a movie works (or the difference between how a film audience percieves a movie versus a theatre audience percieving a stage show) could easily see that Doyle's version just wouldn't work for film. It would be stage show on screen.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 4:59pm

No, the recent film of THE PRODUCERS was a stage show on screen.

Doyle's concept of the asylum at the beginning of the stage show would work PERFECTLY on film. The actors playing the instruments would not.

The only actor I would want playing an instrument in the movie would be Toby. His violin would almost be like his teddy bear (or his crutch, if you will). We don't know where he got it, but he clings to it. He plays it while he sings "Pirelli's Miracle Elixir" while dancing around the street, which would make perfect sense since it would add music to his jingle and would create a spectacle...drawing people to him and, thus, business for Pirelli.

He uses the violin to help express his emotions which is why he could use it during "Not While I'm Around" which would also make sense because it could be a legitimate tune he sings to Lovett and he uses his violin to show her how hard he's worked on it, this showing her how much he loves her.

It would work. Plus the violin would give Toby reasoning for his singing. Movie audiences don't respond to people just breaking out in song...there needs to be a REASON. Hence why CHICAGO worked and RENT, PHANTOM, and THE PRODUCERS didn't (among other reasons).

I don't see how my idea doesn't work.

Updated On: 8/18/06 at 04:59 PM

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 5:04pm

Uhm, or he could express himself by..WOW, ACTING. Additionally, this show isn't about Toby. That's Doyle's interpretation, and that, as they've clearly shown by casting JOHNNY DEPP of all people, is not how they're going to go with the movie. People are equally incredulous at singing and playing instruments on screen. Chicago worked because there was MASSIVE editing to the stage show, same with Caberet, and because there was context- jazz in jazz eras. They also used abstractions that were contextual.

If you can't see how it wouldn't work, that's not my problem. It wouldn't work. There isn't any question about it. Film is for a film audience no matter how many theatre buffs go to see it, and that's a limitation that MUST be understood in order to make this film.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 5:12pm

Lovey, if you're putting a musical onto the screen...then there have to be SONGS. "Not While I'm Around" is, IMO, a crucial song to the plot. They're not just going to cut all of Toby's numbers sweetie.

Let's not forget this is the MUSICAL being made into a movie. Not all the songs will be turned into dialogue. And when it comes to singing in a movie, at least a serious one, a movie audience demands a reason for it. We aren't back in the day where Broadway was considered as big, if not a bigger, form of entertainment as film. Audiences won't just be like: "Oh, they're singing, how wonderful." If characters just break out in song, they ask themselves "Why?"

If they use Toby's songs in this film. The violin provides a perfect excuse for him to sing and his attachment to the violin shows the audience that he's a disturbed child with an emotional crutch. Plain and simple.

If you can't see how it wouldn't work, that's not my problem. It wouldn't work. There isn't any question about it. Film is for a film audience no matter how many theatre buffs go to see it, and that's a limitation that MUST be understood in order to make this film.

I don't know if you got the memo...but you're not the queen of all that is film. Don't state your opinion as fact. It's an opinion and only that. When I put forth an idea I say "This is why I THINK it will work" not "This is why it WILL work."

So don't dismiss me as if you're far superior. Your conceit only aids in worsening your image.

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 6:14pm

Obviously there needs to be song, but having a violin does not somehow justify singing, lovey. My point is that you can act and sing and express yourself without the addition of the instrument. And also, you're not acting any less 'superior', dearest.

Actually, you're trying harder to insult me than you are to prove your point. You're still trying to say, how do we justify Toby singing- EVERYONE is singing, so by your logic, EVERYONE needs an instrument, if instrument somehow makes the singing more credible. Which it doesn't- if you give Toby a violin, it's just a prop and a character adjustment, and it gives context to ONLY Toby- even if you were framing it around Toby, and he's a street singer, then why the hell are Todd, Lovett and everyone else singing? And no one said ANYTHING cutting out any of his songs (can YOU read?).

An asylum frame WOULD work, provided additional dialogue was written, the entire story would be in past tense. IMO, that's too far off the mark from the original story, which belongs to Sweeney Todd, the interpretation of which is a personal choice that I find would work better because I can identify an immediate premise in the original story line (mindless revenge leads to destruction) that is clear and precise and proves itself by the end, whereas Toby's is not nearly as clear (if you're young and you trust people you get screwed?). It becomes convoluted for a linear plot, and this movie needs to be tightened up, not cast wide.

Your 'instrument justifies singing' makes absolutely no sense because everyone's singing has to be justified, and they can't all have instruments, or else you have exactly what I said before: play on screen.

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 6:15pm

Also, I could give less of a **** about my image. This isn't a popularity contest, baby.

[Stiletto]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 6:38pm

One MORE thing. The 'you don't know anything about film' was directed at someone who suggested Donna Lynne Champlin as Pirelli- the comments of someone who clearly knows nothing about film, and I don't know why the post ended up so far down the thread. It wasn't intended to insult you.

However, my reaction to you was precipitated by your stupid, irritating comments (get a life, learn to read..how juvenile) so don't whine to me about how I'M acting superior. If you're coming at me with middle school insults (Obviously, I have a life, and even more obviously, I can read) then you'd better expect to get the same.

[matt schneider]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 6:43pm

I would like to see patti as Mmiss Lovet, but, to me, it is hard to imagine her n a movie. She has amazing stage presence, but movie, not sure.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 7:34pm

Okay, Kristin Chenoweth would make make my heart smile as Johanna, but I dunno if it'll happen.

Carol Burnett would be hilarious as Mrs. Lovett I think.

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 8:35pm

if you give Toby a violin, it's just a prop and a character adjustment, and it gives context to ONLY Toby- even if you were framing it around Toby, and he's a street singer, then why the hell are Todd, Lovett and everyone else singing?

Your 'instrument justifies singing' makes absolutely no sense because everyone's singing has to be justified, and they can't all have instruments, or else you have exactly what I said before: play on screen.

Todd and the Beggar Woman's justification are that they're both incredibly mad. Lovett's justification for singing would be to either "play along with" Todd (as in "These Are My Friends" or "A Little Priest") or, again, it could play into Todd hearing music that's not really happening (as in "Worst Pies in London," "God That's Good," or "By The Sea.")

My point is everyone needs a justification and my idea would be that the violin is Toby's. Everyone else's justification is pretty much built in as I said above.

That's all I'm really getting at.

[broadwayxminixidina]

Posted: 8/18/06 at 8:47pm

I love Barrett Foa!! Hooray!

Anyways, I think that the cast playing the instruments can also reflect their personalities. Lovett-Trumpet makes her character a bit humourous. Toby-Violin makes him show beauty in sadness.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:17pm

There's some clips of Anne Hathaway singing here (including a portion of Kiss Me) for anyone who was interested.

http://www.annie-hathaway.com/download.php

[aspiringactress]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:35pm

Just re: the idea of instruments. Though I don't want to see it used in the film, I also think it could work.

If the story is told in the past tense by a mental patient with an extreme attachment to music, and his violin, then it seems natural to me that as he sees them in his mind, and retells the story, he would do it musically. There's the justification for any music at all in the show. It could be that that's just how Toby sees his world, which is why he clings to his violin.

Again, this is not the version of the film that I personally want to see, but I do think that giving Toby and instrument could create justification for all of the show's music, if the story happens within the asylum frame.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 8/19/06 at 4:41pm

"Okay, Kristin Chenoweth would make make my heart smile as Johanna, but I dunno if it'll happen."

Though she could certainly sing the role, Kristin Chenoweth is FAR too old to play Johanna. Johnana is sixteen, and Kristin is in her thirties.