Phantom to change to "re-staged" production in flagship productions? — Page 3

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#51

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 7:50am

sbflyfan said: "The "Current" UK tour which opened at the beginning of 2020...pulls front-of-house elements (scrim and chandelier) from the 2015 "reimagined" tour, looking like some sort of mash-up of that tour and the original flagships. Comparing the original flagship proscenium to the 2020 UK Tour version, it's a knock-off of Maria Bjornson's original design, not incorporating any of her elements, except perhaps some of the pieces along the top."

Dreadful. I absolutely HATE the chandelier in a sack up at the ceiling. They took this from the Royal Albert Hall production, where it was actually understandable.

The design on EdwardPierce.com is far more palatable.

sbflyfan said: "I do take issue with Cameron Mackintosh marketing his new tours as "The Brilliant Original" when the staging is "A Modified Re-Design Of The Brilliant Original."

Agreed. It seems like it should be illegal.

sbflyfan said: "Are there not ways to replicate and replace worn out sets without re-designing them? I understand the lighting equipment hasn't been changed or updated and is expensive to maintain. Is there not modern lighting equipment which could replicate (or extremely closely replicate) the original lighting equipment? If the angel is "unsafe," isn't there a way to alter the rigging equipment or add a safety harness inside it to make it safer to use?"

Modern theatrical lighting is highly malleable; I assure you that it would not be difficult to replicate the look of the original with modern equipment.

sbflyfan said: "when you start to change visual scenic elements and parts of the staging, you detract from the essence of the original production. It's no longer "The Brilliant Original." Therein lies the upset and pushback from fans of the show (myself included)."

Precisely.

sbflyfan said: "Surely Mackintosh (a billionaire with the best contacts in the industry) should be able to devise ways to "refresh" or "update" the behind-the-scenes operating mechanics of these two original sit-down productions, while still retaining the original designs and staging, instead of bringing in completely new design elements (a new style of chandelier, new scrim design, eliminating the angel, etc)...It's just a question of "does he want to do it the hard way, or the easy way?""

The problem is not whether Mr. Mackintosh, et al., have the time or the money; the problem is that he wants to make operation of the show cheaper than it currently is by removing the legal ties to the original creative team. That is the unforgivable sin. Without Maria Bjornson, Hal Prince, and Gillian Lynne, it literally is not "the brilliant original".

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

Updated On: 6/23/20 at 07:50 AM

#52

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 7:58am

AEA AGMA SM said: "The other thing to bear in mind here is that what might be a potential cost-saving measure in London is not necessarily so on Broadway. Everything on Broadway is more expensive than in London, so loading out an old production, building and loading in a new production, and teching, that new production is going to be considerably more expensive here in NY. Not to mention the cost of renovations on the Majestic itself."

It also occurs to me that Les Miserables is (or was, now that Mackintosh did his number on that show) touted as the longest running musical in the West End, so changing the London production of Phantom would be slightly less problematic because the show isn't resting on the "longest running" accolade there. However, Phantom still is the longest running musical in Broadway history and it is consistently marketed as such. If they mess with the New York production, the immeasurable value of that title could be lost forever.

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#53

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 8:07am

imeldasturn said: "“The set of this, the original production, is now over 34 years old and unsurprisingly many of the scenic elements are coming to the end of their natural life which was never envisaged to be as long as this when first built. LW Theatres, operator of Her Majesty’s Theatre, also need to attend to a number of remedial works on this historic building that for the last four decades has only been able to undertake decorative work.”

https://www.thestage.co.uk/news/the-phantom-of-the-opera-to-remain-closed-for-extended-period-while-maintenance-work-to-set-is-carried-out"

This announcement is infuriating because he completely side-stepped what everyone is concerned about, which is whether the original production design will be scrapped. While his alleged reason for undertaking work on the physical aspects of the show may be valid, he completely avoided the question of whether they will be restoring the show, or reinventing it. This is politician-speak. He made statements that sound so concerned for and respectful of the property, but he was careful not to mention his likely motivation, which is cutting his costs.

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#54

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 11:02am

With the talk of maintainance and repairment, it's pretty clear to me they will just be replacing what needs to replaced, giving some stuff a new coat of paint, replacing some sets that might have been stitched together a thousand times already and whatnot. If they were just gonna scrap the whole thing and bring a new production they would just say so.

Think of it as the costumes we see year in and year out, just because they're new and have been replaced, doesn't mean it's not the same production, just that the old ones are worn out and not fit to represent the Phantom of the Opera anymore.

Here's to the next 30 years, and long live Hal Prince's the Phantom of the Opera.

#55

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 11:09am

sparksatmidnight said: "it's pretty clear to me they will just be replacing what needs to replaced, giving some stuff a new coat of paint, replacing some sets that might have been stitched together a thousand times already and whatnot. If they were just gonna scrap the whole thing and bring a new production they would just say so."

Phantom to change to

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#56

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 11:44am

I don't know, something isn't right here. Between the rumours, the ALW tweet, the precedent with what Cameron did to Les Mis, and now this article/announcement...I wouldn't be surprised if Ruthie I is already at the bottom of the Thames.

#57

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 11:47am

https://www.theatermania.com/london-theater/news/west-end-phantom-announces-plans-for-renovation_91119.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=23jun2020&fbclid=IwAR3HMkVoKChbi5XYuXhXKlRn34wfCl1hMTx1RexrJh_-_t6CgdI1J0IuJJs

Another one. This reeks of said side stepping and carefully chosen words to be vague enough to keep from outright saying if it’s just a refurbishment/restoration or the tour reinvention. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.

#58

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 12:27pm

If we weren't in the middle of a pandemic, I don't believe for one second that this conversation about out-dated set pieces would exist. This absolutely reeks of Cameron saying that he's going to replace the brilliant original with the touring version.

The Broadway production of PHANTOM was my introduction to musical theatre when I was little, and the thought of Hal Prince's genius production being replaced by the touring production is devastating to me. Prince's direction/staging and Maria Bjornson's designs are a huge part of why that show has run as long as it has. In my humble opinion, the recent touring production had none of the charm and magic that I experience when I see the brilliant original.

I sincerely hope this isn't true.

#59

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 1:25pm

The fact that the new UK tour, which had only just begun performances at the first venue when lockdown occured, has been pulled completely is a strong sign that the tour set could be used for London. You dont invest in a new tour set and costumes and just pull it for the brand new set to sit in a warehouse. All other major UK tours are rescheduling for 2021 and 2022. Phantom just cancelled outright.

It was about 90% to 95% the original, there was unconfirmed reports that a new chandelier was going to be used from Manchester onwards and that the Albert hall one was just a temporary fix due to a delay with the new one.

I think it's highly likely the tour set is planned for London now, just depends if Cameron can get his way.

#60

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 1:39pm

Princeton2, can you further explain what was different in the tour? Do you know if they used the angel or the statue like in the world tour for All I Ask of You?

Also, interesting that they were using the Royal Albert Hall chandelier and another one was supposed to be used from Manchester onwards.

#61

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 3:32pm

I haven’t heard these rumors directly address Broadway either. Would Cameron use the same excuse for Broadway, that the sets are basically tattered old death traps?
Would Cameron let London and New York have two different Phantom versions?
If he really hates giving so much money to the Prince, Bjornson, and Lynne estates perhaps he could try renegotiating with them rather than going through this mess. It sounds like at least some of their work is going to end up in the new version anyway.

Seems like the angel and chandelier are the two elements that are most in danger of “updates” aka desecration.

#62

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 4:48pm

The chandelier is my favorite set piece from the brilliant original. Sure, the mechanics of it are dated, but the chandelier itself has such an iconic look about it. The chandelier created for the updated tour pales in comparison to its Broadway counterpart in every way. Yes, it is more mechanically advanced, but you lose the incredible visuals during the Overture of the chandelier rising from the stage - one of the more thrilling scenic moments in the history of musical theatre.

Surely, they could make updates to the set without ditching the original chandelier. Surely, they could update the mechanics involved without losing that iconic set piece.

#63

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 5:02pm

I wonder what ever happened to the $4.5 million chandelier from Vegas?

Phantom to change to

#64

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 6:15pm

Tag said: "I wonder what ever happened to the $4.5 million chandelier from Vegas?"

It's still there. It was fixed in place after Phantom concluded its run.

Phantom to change to

"I'm seeing the LuPone in Key West later this week. I'm hoping for great vocals and some sort of insane breakdown..." - BenjaminNicholas2

#65

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 6:22pm

sparksatmidnight said: Also, interesting that they were using the Royal Albert Hall chandelier and another one was supposed to be used from Manchester onwards."

The post on the previous page meant the re-imagined tour's chandelier was modeled after the Royal Albert Hall chandelier... already hanging in space before the production, shrouded in a tarp. The Albert Hall chandelier would be way too big to fit in a traditional theater.

The UK Tour which began in 2020 was using the same chandelier design as the re-imagined US tour. I doubt they were going to switch to a different type of chandelier, since the top of the proscenium doesn't have a cut-out for a chandelier track, like they're using in the South Korean International tour.

"I'm seeing the LuPone in Key West later this week. I'm hoping for great vocals and some sort of insane breakdown..." - BenjaminNicholas2

#66

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 8:27pm

A quick Google Search shows Cameron Mackintosh with a net worth of $1.1 BILLION. Is he really so hard up to save a few dollars that he needs to erase any existence of the brilliant Original staging? I mean.. let's be real, even if he saves as much as $1M per year in royalty payments...(which seems high).. would that even make a dent in his fortune...?

The original Phantom production is a cultural icon. Seeing the 'reimagined' US tour last year reminded me how spectacular it was to see the original Phantom (for the first time) in the UK 15 years ago.. The new tour had some cool elements.. I'm a sucker for a Hidden Floating Staircase... but overall left me missing the Original Masquerade Staging and the Boat/Lair sequence as a whole.

Please let ALW have more sway than Boublil and Schönberg seemed to and stop Mackintosh from proceeding with any plans he may have to replace the Original in NYC and the UK.

#67

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/23/20 at 10:04pm

What I don’t understand is it’s only produced in part by MacIntosh. And Really Useful (Webber) is also producer. How could MacIntosh have final say. I really just wish they would be transparent with the fans of the show. It is such a crime if these changes are real. “Updating” anything more that replacing worn out set pieces as a referb is ridiculous. Just last year I was thinking what a beautiful preserved show we have to remember the three creative team members for. And if Cameron believes he can replace it with crap. I will never see the show again.

#68

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 12:40am

It looks a lot like the Les Miz tour which felt so small and closed in

#69

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 3:57am

Yes sorry I should have been clearer, the new UK tour chandelier was a very similar design concept to the Albert hall but wasnt the exact one I dont think. and there were multiple rumours of a new chandelier being brought in for Manchester...but we will never know now.

I'm far from a Cameron fan, but I'm sick of seeing peoples comments about billionaires. Being classed as a billionaire doesnt necessarily mean you have the cash in the bank. In Cameron's case its things like property, show rights etc. He will be losing hundreds of thousands possibly millions at the moment with all his shows and theatres closed. Yes he is a rich man but even he isn't immune to the current economic climate. That said he also needs to weigh up brand damage by replacing physical aspects of productions. Les Miserables he got away with as the music is more ingrained in modern culture rather than the staging Phantoms staging however is iconic, and the songs aside possibly Music of the Night, come second

#70

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 7:35am

singerunlimited said: "The chandelier created for the updated tour pales in comparison to its Broadway counterpart in every way. Yes, it is more mechanically advanced, but you lose the incredible visuals during the Overture of the chandelier rising from the stage - one of the more thrilling scenic moments in the history of musical theatre."

That was one of many disappointing aspects of the CamMack "reimagined" US Tour. The overture sequence is rather pointless without the chandelier's ascent. If the show starts with the chandelier in a sack up at the ceiling, I'm out.

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#71

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 7:37am

RoadGypsy2010 said: "if he saves as much as $1M per year in royalty payments...(which seems high).. would that even make a dent in his fortune...?"

Perversely, it seems that the more money people have, the more they feel they need.

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#72

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 7:39am

Theatrefanboy1 said: "What I don’t understand is it’s only produced in part by MacIntosh. And Really Useful (Webber) is also producer. How could MacIntosh have final say."

That's what I can't figure out. The show was created by ALW, Bjornson, Prince, and Lynne, not Mackintosh; why would he control its fate?

==> this board is a nest of vipers <==
"Michael Riedel...The Perez Hilton of the New York Theatre scene"
- Craig Hepworth, What's On Stage

#73

Phantom to change to

Posted: 6/24/20 at 8:53am

The replacement of the Les Mis production started with the need to close and renovate its theatre. Unless they make it clear that it'll be staying put, I'm still extremely skeptical.

"Hey little girls, look at all the men in shiny shirts and no wives!" - Jackie Hoffman, Xanadu, 19 Feb 2008

#74

Phantom to change to

Posted: 7/20/20 at 6:42pm

The chandelier from the West End production has been removed from Her Majesty's Theatre. See the photo in the below tweet:

https://twitter.com/shentonstage/status/1285313746706092033?s=21

Let’s hope this is temporary and that they’re only updating the mechanics involved and not ditching this iconic set piece altogether. It’s certainly a sad sight to see.

Updated On: 7/20/20 at 06:42 PM

#75

Phantom to change to

Posted: 7/20/20 at 7:29pm

sbflyfan said: "
The UK Tour which began in 2020 was using the same chandelier design as the re-imagined US tour. I doubt they were going to switch to a different type of chandelier, since the top of the proscenium doesn't have a cut-out for a chandelier track, like they're using in the South Korean International tour."

It wasn't just the same design, it was the exact same chandelier shipped over from the US when the tour closed. It was indeed a "place holder" as the chandelier the new UK tour was planning on using was not finished by the shop yet.

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