Pirate Queen 2nd Preview-Thoughts

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 2:23am

I've done my best to not talk about the plot or too many particular songs... so... no spoilers I promise... and I am aware this was only a preview... but these are my thoughts.

So... I guess I'll say I was pretty disapointed.

I thought the cast was excellent... REALLY outstanding... not
only because they were clearly so on top of their game and it was only the second performance... but all the leads are really perfectly cast... really stellar...

But the material... eh... there are HUGE plot holes... very little and frankly unrealistic resolution... and the first act ungracefully heaves it's way through an hour and a half... finally lurching to end abruptly without much dramtic purpose... beyond... oh the first act is over... lets end with a sad dramtic anthem... speaking of anthems... there isn't one... to be frank... which is disappointing coming from the people who brought you "One Day More" "Do You Hear the People Sing" "Bui Doi" and "Live With Somebody You Love"... and this material BEGS and CRIES OUT for an anthem (or two)! Obviously... there is plenty of time to write one... so... people who are in charge... get on that... the second act is much better... but all over the place dramatically...also there is a problem with the tone of the English segments... funny? satire? biting? dramatic? sad? Pick one... or heck... pick three... let's just stick with the tones we decide on... Characters are not nearly fleshed out enough... the actors try but they are not given all that much to work with... the only characters that are complete successes are Queen Elizabeth (Linda Balgord is SO exceptional... and I had no trouble understanding her) Bingham, and Donal... other than those characters... no one makes any kind of choice for any kind of reason... when decisions are made without any kind of dramatic cost... well... that does not make for very exciting theater...

Well I'm being very negative... I do think there is a lot of positive... the set is beautiful... with wonderful effects... a whole stage of stars at the end of act one (the end of the first act was staged beautifully... but the song was lame), the multiple masts, ropes and pulleys... it was all very effective... the costumes were fab-O... the Irish choreography 50 minutes into the first act was AMAZING... it stopped the show dead... it was really fantastic... but there was only 1 and 1/2 scenes of Irish dancing... which is a shame... one of the two times the show really took flight was during the dancing... so... lets have more! All the other dancing was pretty negligible... Again... the cast... awesome... they just need more stuff(really less stuff... just better stuff) to do... obviously they can handle it... there is a song between Grace O'Malley and Queen Elizabeth... called the girl who has it all... or something to that effect... really outstanding, potent, and mature dramatic moment... made it worth it for me... so that's the good... I guess...

Now for one last opinion... the historic Grace O'Malley was a figure of independence... both as a Woman and as a citizen of Ireland... the thesis of this show seems to be that all of that is well and good... but what is REALLY important is that there was a man that loved her... when Queen Elizabeth sings her song about Grace O'Malley... it's not her courage... her ferocity... her determination... her self reliance... that she admires...no no... what she thinks is so remarkable is that Grace O'Malley has a fella that loves her... and isn't that the greatest thing? I don't mind that the authors took EXTREME liberties with the story of the real Grace O'Malley... but it does sort of bother me that the moral of their story seems to be that your accomplishments mean nothing if you can't get a man to love you... yuck.

It's late... I'm sorry if this wasn't coherent.

kmc

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 9:05am

Yes, you saw the same show I did. When The Pirate Queen works, it really works and it's quite thrilling. I have a feeling this thing could be a hit if they fix it up a bit. Maybe not a massive worldwide "Les Mis" type hit, but something that runs for several years and spawns additional companies and tours.

I agree that the Irish Dancing is a strong point and we should see more of it. I love everything about Queen Elizabeth,(incredible costumes!) and when she's on stage I feel like I'm seeing something new and original. What disturbs me is how many moments there are that seem like virtual "cut and paste" clones of Les Mis. This is an especially bad idea given that the Les Mis revival will be playing down the block in New York this Spring. "Boys Will Be Boys" sounds EXACTLY like "Master of the House". Same tempo, same groove, same honky tonk piano. This is just plain creative laziness, especially given the rich tradition of Irish dance music that was apparently ignored here. The death scene at the end of Act I is just Fantine's death with a different gender. The staging looks identical. Maybe we could at least have the guy not wear white? I almost laughed out loud during the battle scene when suddenly everyone but Grace started moving in slow motion. Isn't it about time this cliche was retired? I wonder if Galati ever saw "Urinetown", which had great fun mocking the whole Les Mis/Miss Saigon slow motion gag.

The score is very pretty, and wonderfully orchestrated and performed by the very capable pit band. I don't hear any great songs that could stand alone though. There's nothing like "On My Own", "I Dreamed a Dream", "Sun and Moon" or "I'd Give My Life For You." I suppose "I'll Be There" comes close, but I don't think it's in the same league as those others.

One last gripe: Why don't they think about their target audience and stop using the word "****" constantly? I've heard that the French word "merde" isn't considered such a strong swear, so perhaps this is partly a cultural/translation issue. I don't mind profanity in a musical when it's appropriate (like The Producers) but here it's just vulgar,lame writing. "Where has it been writ, My life should turn to ****..." Come on. The Bridge and Tunnel demographic bringing their preteen daughters in to see a musical could keep this thing running for years longer, but this isn't going to encourage them.

I would like to see this show succeed. They've got an incredible cast, an interesting story and some fine ideas. I also think the show's heart is in the right place, and I'd like to see Schonberg do what Lloyd Webber hasn't been able to and have one more big hit. I'll be listening to reports of changes in previews with great interest.

[algy]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 9:09am

The French "Merde" isn't as strong as it's English equivalent, but you'd've thought they'd know that by now wouldn't you?

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 10:03am

But to be honest, all curse words other than the "F" word can be in a PG movie, which children are allowed into without a parent. Many profanities are on TV now. I am not saying that makes it right, but it's not the worst thing in the world. I think if a parent is paying 120 bucks for their kid to see a musical, then they are pretty savvy about introducing their child to theatre, language and all. I mean, Miss Saigon would probably be rated PG-13 or R for sex, death, violence, adult themes and language but there were teens packed in there the last time I saw it.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 11:00am

Have you seen the show? The profanity just doesn't work.

Granted, you can have anything but the "F" word in a PG movie. I'm sure my kids (both under 12) have heard the English translation of "merde" many times, but that doesn't mean I want to pay hundreds of dollars to have them repeatedly hear it in a show as if it's a normal part of everyday speech. (I'd actually rather have my kids hear Max say the "F' word in the Producers, because at least there it makes dramatic sense.) My main concern is that a big part of this show's potential market might be put off by this, and it adds NOTHING to the characterization or storytelling. It's just bad writing. All those school groups and kid's birthday parties add up to a lot of tickets.

[AugustBurns2]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 1:21pm

More great reviews!!!

Even though I haven't seen the show (nor will I be able to unless I win the lottery on Saturday), I felt like I was there.

These reviews seemed even-handed and articulate....

"Where has it been writ, My life should turn to ****..."
----Is this a real lyric from the show?!?! Wow - that's bad!!!

I almost laughed out loud during the battle scene when suddenly everyone but Grace started moving in slow motion. Isn't it about time this cliche was retired? I wonder if Galati ever saw "Urinetown", which had great fun mocking the whole Les Mis/Miss Saigon slow motion gag.
-----This is sooo funny because I am in a production of Urinetown right now!!!!

Boys Will Be Boys" sounds EXACTLY like "Master of the House"
----Really?!?! It seems that so many composers simply repeat themselves like Lloyd Weber uses the same themes from previous shows and even Menken (Somewhere that's Green--->Part of Your World and It's Just the Gas---->The Mob Song) But I would never even touch "Master of the House" with a ten-foot pole, seriously! This song is so well know the world over!!! People would be reminded if you sampled this again!

Good job!!!

[SayitSomehow]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 4:42pm

I think it should be mandatory that every musical production team consists of someone who reads broadwayworld, prints out the reviews, and derives notes to give to the creative team.

Honestly! Then we'd have one HELL of a Tonys on our hands.

Anyway I hope they change everything you guys pointed out, I like what I hear so far.

[chinkie azn jai]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 5:10pm

Ummm, I'm almost positive there is no lottery for The Pirate Queen.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 7:42pm

The profanity is sorta jarring... but I don't think all that big of a deal... it's a show about pirates (well... only kinda)... so... considering... it could be a lot worse.

kmc

[bardolator]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 10:52pm

According to someone in the executive office (?) with whom I spoke a week or so ago, they're not planning on lottery or rush tickets.

I, too, hope they fix some of the issues I'm hearing about. The premise is a good one (more on that in a moment), the cast is stellar, and what I've heard so far of the music has been good. It seems to me that a lot of areas need a little tightening, and a few areas need some major work. It seems it's still eminently "doable"...and if they do it, they may have a serious contendah on their hands.

Now, about that premise...I've read several books (novels, biography, etc.) about Grania/Grace O'Malley. The novel from which the material for the book of THE PIRATE QUEEN was drawn is the best of the lot (though I had some issues with the novel). I think the point is not that Grania was an independent woman...nor that she finally wound up with the love of her life. I think the point is that she wanted to have it all--and she succeeded in getting it all. Llywellyn presents Grania as a woman caught between Old Ireland (symbolized by Evleen, who in the novel is a druidess of sorts--not sure about the musical) and New (probably symbolized, actually, by Elizabeth herself). She wants to cling to the past--she fights to keep her clan safe and prosperous and free of English influence--but finds she has to negotiate with the present in order to preserve at least a semblance of the Irish way of life. I don't think the love story is a cop-out--or, at least, it doesn't have to be. Again, I've not seen it yet, so I'm curious to find out what material they've drawn from the novel and what they've set aside (there are a couple scenes that would add SO MUCH, dramatically, to this musical, but which I don't know how they'd stage. I can give more detail if anyone wants it).

Guess I'll find out in November (though hopefully they'll fix a few things by then).

Posted: 10/5/06 at 11:11pm

"I think it should be mandatory that every musical production team consists of someone who reads broadwayworld, prints out the reviews, and derives notes to give to the creative team.

Honestly! Then we'd have one HELL of a Tonys on our hands."


You know, you might be saying that in a light-hearted way but you make a good point. How many times has a show received the same constructive criticism by multiple people only to have none of those points addressed? Then the show opens on Broadway and those weaknesses are just pointed out by NY critics anyway. I'm starting to think that most creative teams nowadays don't take out of town previews as nothing more than technical run-throughs. Let's hope TPTB behind The Pirate Queen start a new trend by actually listening to the out-of-town criticism and really tackle those problem areas. I want this show to be great! Updated On: 10/5/06 at 11:11 PM

[SayitSomehow]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 11:14pm

Well said. You would think in this new era where internet buzz and feedback is everything (I mean look at Snakes On A Plane - the power of the internet response is HUGE), these creative teams would seriously heed the points of hardcore theatre fans like those on this message board. Oh wellll

[Popular]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 11:18pm

KuhnKrazy - I remember reading that the producer's hopes for creating CASTCOM, were partially to silence the message boards. I took "silence" to mean answer back to any rumors or questions. If so, then this team is definitely tuned in to feedback. Even Galati in the very first live CASTCOM urged people to email in with thoughts.

I'm loving these reviews so far.

*sigh* one day I'll be able to write my own I hope.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 10/5/06 at 11:31pm

>I'm starting to think that most creative teams nowadays don't take out of town >previews as nothing more than technical run-throughs.

As Mega musicals get more complicated the out of town previews do increasingly become just a chance to get all the stage machinery working. There's no chance of the creative team writing a new scene, revising a song and then trying them both out at the next performance. It's a good day if the technical challenges of cutting 8 bars in a complex scene can be solved. There's a lot of great stuff on the Pirate Queen stage, but I think there are also some fundamental weaknesses in the score and direction. I worry that no one there is willing to tell the composers of Les Mis that some of their new material needs work. (Let's not forget that these guys also composed Martin Guerre!)

[msls777]

Posted: 10/6/06 at 2:09am

Hey guys, I'm enjoying the things I hear about the Pirate Queen positives/negatives also.

But I just had to comment on writing new material. I believe, from the things I've read about the creation of B&S musicals, that when their material needs work, they change it, as long as it furthers the story. I think changing "Too Much for One Heart" which would have definitely been a much more popular song if it had not been changed to the duet, "Please" really portrayed that... and that was changed just weeks before B&S put on Miss Saigon after Nick Hytner told them it was holding up the show. Plus, I believe it was about two weeks before the first preview that Schonberg was told that Ellen's Act II number (not "Now that I've Seen her") was completely useless and also not getting the point across... so close to opening, he re-wrote a completely new melody, and of course, Boublil and Maltby changed the lyrics. And then for another segment in Saigon, after This is the Hour, Kim originally had that individual part where she is talking about how she has killed with her hand, you know the, "oh why am I so cold?" and then reprises the I Still Believe, and of course, now, it just goes from "This is the Hour" right into "If you want to die in Bed" so really, I think that if they need to re-work material, and mind you, Miss Saigon was a big show (perhaps not on the caliber of Pirate Queen, but one of the biggest, if not the biggest in its day) they will re-work it.

And just on the last parenthetical statement, I thought Martin Guerre was a work of art, and the complete re-writing of the musical was more based on the need for the story to appeal more to audiences, like, be more black and white ("They will pay, for the scars on my back!"). And frankly, I don't think it should ever be used as a material to take away anything that Boublil and Schonberg have ever written. Let's not forget that it did win the Laurence Olivier, before it's re-write.

I believe that as long as the atmosphere is cooperative there, and I'm sure it is, the direction and score will work out and we'll have the masterpiece that everyone claims Pirate Queen has the potential of being. Les Miz and Miss Saigon certainly weren't perfect when they put the score and direction together. I have total faith that the creative team will make this show amazing.
Updated On: 10/6/06 at 02:09 AM

[mrkringas]

Posted: 10/6/06 at 6:02am

Remind me what it up against for the Olivier?

If I recall around that time London was in a flood of brilliant revivals like Nine, Company and Into the Woods from the Donmar. I enjoyed Martin Guerre in and out of town but when I listen to it its almost always the new revised version that I put on.

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 10/6/06 at 8:28am

Thanks for a fascinating post about the development of Miss Saigon. I've always thought Saigon was a very well structured show. I have no doubt that Cameron Mackintosh used all of his inestimable charm to encourage B&S to write the best material possible. I hope that someone over at Pirate Queen will exert similar pressures. From watching the Castcom clips it seems that everyone there is just so nice and friendly. All they want to talk about is how brilliant everything is. There are times where what's needed is a little friction, maybe even just a tiny bit of shouting to get the best results. Perhaps all of this will happen behind the scenes, but Galati just looks too much like Santa Clause for me to believe it.

I too am hoping for the best. I love watching a truly great musical, and I want Pirate Queen to be one.

>And just on the last parenthetical statement, I thought Martin Guerre was a work >of art,

Of course art is a subjective thing, and this board is all about expressing varying opinions. I heard the original London demo recordings, I have the London cast album, and I saw the Minneapolis production several times. My opinion is that Martin Guerre was crap.

[bardolator]

Posted: 10/7/06 at 8:37am

We've been told that they're rewriting several scenes for PQ, so hopefully they'll address some of the issues that stand in the way of this being a really magnificent musical. They certainly have the talent to work with; I hope they make the best use the actors and really give them a vehicle for their amazing vocal and acting (and dancing!) talent. I enjoyed the novel and there are several "moments" in it that should really sell the characters of Grania and Tiernan, especially. Since I've not seen the show yet, I don't know whether they're included, but they SHOULD be....

[Luscious]

Posted: 10/7/06 at 9:03am

This show sounds like it's going to be a gigantic flop. What are the odds that it doesn't even make it to Broadway?

[elf2]

Posted: 10/7/06 at 10:49am

>My opinion is that Martin Guerre was crap.

That's okay, lots of people think the same thing about you too.

The OLC cd is quite crap but does nothing to convey the show aside from the great orchestrations.

The US show was an appalling exercise in how to ruin a show. The tour in the UK was amazing but the version in the US was just bogged down by more uneccessary changes and soap opera acting. Yuck.
Updated On: 10/8/06 at 10:49 AM

[Popular]

Posted: 10/7/06 at 11:50am

Anyone who questions how open and willing EVERYONE is to hearing and incorporating criticisms, suggestions, and changes NEEDS to watch today's CASTCOMS! Especially Boublil's and Marcus's. It's like they are reading the boards and answering ...BRILLIANT!!