Rembember When Raul Esparza Lost the Tony to David Hyde Pierce... — Page 6

Perhaps Esparza won the popular vote, but DPH won the electoral college?

While I prefer Esparza's performance, I totally understand why David Hyde Pierce won. He's a beloved fixture in the community, and it was a way to aware CURTAINS in a year when it wasn't going to win anything else.

Echoing the last couple of comments, I have a lot of understanding for the context of how these two races ended up. And what thrilling races they were!

Menzel’s utter uniqueness of look, voice, and presence were so right for Elphaba and she became the grounded center of a whole lot of junk flying around that stage. Not to mention, I feel like a lot of voters were like “we need to throw Wicked one big bone” if they were planning on voting for Avenue Q in the other major categories.

THAT SAID, Tonya Pinkins’ performance in Caroline, or Change is one of the all-time greats and that Tony, as far as I’m concerned, has materialized in her living room just from the Universe righting itself. She was life-changing in that show.

I love close Tony races!

Updated On: 10/29/18 at 11:45 AM

Man, this whole thread took me back. I had no idea people were bitching about Boyd Gaines' worthy win for Gypsy.

Anyway, I remember the 2004 Tony race. I remember Chenoweth got the glowing reviews from Wicked and even the fans here said Cheno gave the more skilled and winning performance, but Idina was so unique and "Defying Gravity" was too much of a "Let it Go" type of phenom that she was the stronger choice. Plus the show really is about Elphaba even if Glinda can be a "scene-stealer". Tonya Pinkins was gaining some traction, but there was a real criticism at the time (not so much now) that she played Caroline too one-note (as if they couldn't understand a woman who really is that unhappy) and it got to the point where when the show opened in L.A., they changed the poster to make Caroline smile. That actually happened. Donna Murphy, people forget, was actually the one expected to win by many because she won the Critics' Choice AND Drama Desk even though we all know there's no overlap between them and the Tonys. People just thought people received the performances a certain way and Murphy was a slight favorite. She may have had more of a chance if there wasn't a narrative built around her constant missed performances leading up to the Tonys. Stephanie D'abruzzo knew her nomination was a win in of itself. She was seriously happy just to be nominated.

Updated On: 10/29/18 at 02:48 PM

Mister Matt said: "But have Tony Awards ever really meant something?

For example, The Music Man is one of my favourite shows. I love it so much. However, do I think West Side Story should have won more Tonys in 1958.
...
I think West Side Story was hugely influential and innovative in its day, though it's book has been consistently criticized and when it initially ran, was derided by fans of more conventional works (I recall reading an anecdote claiming that Mary Rodgers said the score didn't contain any melodies) which probably has a LOT to do with why it wasn't even nominated for Best Musical. The show was WAY ahead of its time and voters likely weren't really ready for it yet. It wasn't until it was a film that it actually cemented itself as a classic. I love West Side Story, though I admit I'm not fond of "Tonight". For me, it goes on too long and includes some of Sondheim's most cringe-worthy lyrics (though I do like its reprise in the Quintet)."



Actually, West Side Story WAS nominated for Best Musical, along with New Girl in Town, Oh, Captain!, Jamaica and The Music Man.

sing_dance_love said: "Totally hear what you’re saying Mister Matt, about the crackage. For me though, Tonya embraced her character’s struggle, and raw pain in such an intense way that her refusal to (in large part) back off of the notes, because of the strain she was experiencing, took the performance to a whole new level for me. It was Caroline, flaws and all. It’s part of why I found the performance so brave and moving. Totally a matter of opinion though.

When I was writing my previous post, I was thinking about the Donna Murphy factor too. That’s how I remember the moment too, as Donna having the slight edge in a pretty hotly contested race. That was a really strong best actress lineup, now that we look
back on it."

Absolutely. A Best Actress race with Chenoweth, Menzel, Murphy, & Pinkins is really stacked. It's like 2006 when we got Foster, Lupone, O'Hara, Rivera, and winner LaChanze in the Best Actress race.

Mister Matt said: "Actually,West Side StoryWAS nominated for Best Musical, along withNew Girl in Town, Oh, Captain!, JamaicaandThe Music Man.

Oops. You're totally right. Funny thing is, I thought it was, but when I looked it up before I posted, I swear I didn't see it in the list of nominees.

For me though, Tonya embraced her character’s struggle, and raw pain in such an intense way that her refusal to (in large part) back off of the notes, because of the strain she was experiencing, took the performance to a whole new level for me.

I probably would have accepted that as well if it only occurred during emotional peaks in the show, but when I saw it, the cracks started right from the beginning (on the word "Louisiana" in the opening line...something that was pretty hard to forget) and continued all throughout the show. Her voice was so strained, in Lot's Wife she simply didn't have the strength to hit the top belt notes and could only stay on pitch her the quite section in her head voice. It was uncomfortable for the wrong reasons."

I remember hearing about that too. Maybe the same people who voted for Anika Noni Rose DID NOT vote for Pinkins for that reason. I'm sure some would have voted for Menzel anyway. Menzel was having some voice issues well as a big thing on this board was people picking on her constant gasping, but Wicked was a huge juggernaut that Caroline, or Change was not. Avenue Q winning is still the biggest Tony surprise I personally saw in real time. More so than DHP beating Esparza.

I probably would have accepted that as well if it only occurred during emotional peaks in the show, but when I saw it, the cracks started right from the beginning (on the word "Louisiana" in the opening line...something that was pretty hard to forget) and continued all throughout the show. Her voice was so strained, in Lot's Wife she simply didn't have the strength to hit the top belt notes and could only stay on pitch her the quite section in her head voice. It was uncomfortable for the wrong reasons."

Oh yeah, I hear you. I mean she could have totally backed off and sang the whole thing in head voice and that probably would have been a lot easier on the ears, but all I’m saying is I appreciated that she wasn’t afraid to crack. While jarring at first, I just thought it was v Caroline. But, obviously, I totally understand why it would just be a major turn off for people and I imagine she lost some votes.

But, like we said, embarrassment of riches with leading women that year. As well as 2006, I forgot LaChanze beat all those other divas!

but all I’m saying is I appreciated that she wasn’t afraid to crack.

Well, when I saw it, her only other choice was not to perform at all, which might have been better for everyone and a more responsible decision. I don't think there was anything particularly "brave" or "character" about her vocal issues at that time. I didn't care whether or not she was "afraid" to crack. She had blown out her voice and was still trying to perform beyond her capabilities. And given its short run, I imagine a lot of voters ended up seeing her when she should have been taking some vocal rest.

I later saw a regional production in Chicago with a terrific Caroline and hearing the role sung by a stronger, healthier voice was something of a revelation.

I also saw it at the Guthrie in Minneapolis, and thought that the woman (whose name I cannot remember) sang the role much better than Pinkins, who I had assumed was just having a bad night when I saw her. I also liked the staging more than on Broadway, although I have to admit that I admired the show more than I liked it.

If Pinkins' voice was a problem, why did she get a pass when Bernadette Peters and Boyd Gaines received very dismissive -- almost brutal -- comments on this board, when they were having vocal issues in the early runs of Gypsy and Company. IMO it cost Peters the Tony andGaines a nomination (even though both got beyond their issues eventually).

Re Murphy, as I recall, she probably got the best individual reviews of the season;however,by the timeofthe Tony's, i did nothing she had a chance because of all the controversy about missed performances. I remember thinking the time that it was between Pinkins and Menzel, for whom I would have voted. Interestingly, I have since tired of Menzel, who I think has developed an unpleasant shrillness, where once she caused goose bumps.

Finally, re Esparza...I saw Dean Jones, Larry Kert (several times), Boyd Gaines (twice), and NPH play Bobby. i thought Esparza's performance was a distant fifth in terms of moving me. To me, Esparza may have a good voice, but he is an incredibly cold performer; suddenly singing Being Alive beautifully and with great emotion long after he had already lost me was too little too late. Do I think Pierce deserved a Tony? No. I probably would have voted for Groff, but it was not a crime that he lost since Gallagher stole that show.