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[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 4:51pm

Cupid Boy2 said: "She apologized on Twitter for thanking the supporter who wished "trolls" would die in a fire.

 

https://twitter.com/PattiMurin/status/709115775357833216"

 

Well, there's that. Still doesn't cover the 99%.

 

Whizzer, you're one of two most level-headed online forum members I've ever had the pleasure of reading in my two decades of being online, so thank you for your always measured responses and wonderful show insights especially during the preview periods. Though I still cheer for those who insist on voting with their dollars, however small a drop.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 4:57pm

Pootie, Thanks for your kind words. :) I enjoy posting here and have met so many wonderful people in real life because of this place.

 

I also wasn't trying to say that people shouldn't vote with their money- I actually think it's completely understandable. I always buy sh-k-boom/ghostlight recordings directly from their site in hopes that they will receive maximum profits, but now I will make sure to only purchase them through amazon or at places like the flea market or Academy Records.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:00pm

It's nice she apologized for her err in judgement, re: the fire comment.

 

The irrepressible FindingNamo has caught up with her on Twitter too! (@NamoInExile)

 

Link

[tazber]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:04pm

Haha!

 

 

[Kad]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:07pm

Whizzer, thank you for pulling those quotes praising Murin. I was planning on doing the same later this evening.The vast majority of posts about her- and most performers, really- are quite fair and often very complimentary.

 

Theatre, and Broadway in general, is something that is really well-served by message boards like this, since theatre by its very nature cannot be seen by everyone equally. Not only is it regionally-locked much of the time, it is also ephemeral. What other medium is like that? Most art persists. Books persist. Films persist. Music persists. They're more easily dispersed.

 

Theatre is gone after the evening ends, and after the run ends, no one will see it again. The overwhelming majority of theatrical productions are not recorded. It is truly wonderful to have a place where someone in NYC who's been seeing theatre for decades can chat with a teenager in Kansas who only knows Wicked from their cast recording. It's wonderful to have a place where people can tell others how to get cheaper tickets, where to eat in NYC after a show, what a concert or reading or replacement cast was like. It is an archive and a salon and oral history and a bar all in one.

 

So the idea that "legitimate" sites should do away with message boards, or that they are "cesspools" or "the equivalent of writing on the bathroom wall" or inhabited by "bitter" people who don't "MAKE ALL THE THEATER" and therefore should all be deleted is misguided at the very least and downright offensive at the worst.

 

Guess what, Kurt Deutsch? These are the people who will buy the cast recording of a Joe Iconis score that you produce.

Guess what, Steven Pasquale? These are the people who know that The Robber Bridegroom exists and garnered Patti LuPone her first Tony nod and that Liz Callaway sang "Sleepy Man."

Guess what, Patti Murin? These are the folks who waited in line to see you in Love's Labour's Lost in the park,  supported Lysistrata Jones downtown, and praised both you and your husband onstage.

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 05:07 PM

[10086sunset]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:15pm

Whizzer and Kad, two beautiful posts. It is a pleasure reading your words and thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:22pm

It's also an odd thing to me to assume that people who post here aren't actually in the industry. I can only speak for myself, but I work for non-profits theatre companies in fundraising. The people onstage are important, naturally, but if I didn't do the work I do (and love), someone like Steven Pasquale (who I've never seen onstage and really have no opinion of) wouldn't have a show to star in at the moment because the money to pay for it wouldn't exist. 

[ljay889]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:25pm

wonderfulwizard11 said: "It's also an odd thing to me to assume that people who post here aren't actually in the industry."

I have been thinking the same exact thing! It's like they're completely ignoring the fact that there ARE members of the industry who post regularly on this message board. And I'd also like to know why none of these people are mentioning ATC, a chat board that is far nastier than here. Why not go after them as well? 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 05:25 PM

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:33pm

I believe Murin said she wasn't going after ATC because it existed solely as a chat board and not part of a larger site like the chat boards here are just a piece of the features on BWW. Of course, that isn't true, as ATC is just a page on the Talkin' Broadway website that also features Broadway and off-Broadway reviews, CD reviews, tickets sales and exchanges among other features.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:36pm

ATC is also a lot more ephemeral -- posts in that message board format just fall off, so it's harder to look back and find old posts unless you copied/pasted or screencapped.

[theatregoer3]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:39pm

I'm very inspired by what Whizzer said and very grateful he said it. I've been thinking about this for days now. The whole thing has made me a bit upset and sad because I think this little board community is pretty great. I'm so sad to see it get this undeserved negative publicity.

 

Most of what Ms. Murin points out is not bullying, but harsh criticism. I do agree there is some bullying on this chat board. We all see it, it's annoying and we move past it by either ignoring or blocking the offending users.  No big deal.That said, we're discussing a creative medium in a space where most of the posters are more than just "fans", as Patti states, but who are also actors, directors, designers, producers...you name it. I come to this board to hear their opinions - both good and bad. I read the NY Times and the Voice and so forth, but I actually come here first to read about what shows I should see and which ones I shouldn't.

 

I think we all felt that "Nerds" was dead upon arrival. Everyone in town could spot that a mile away. A co-worker of mine randomly told me he had seen "Nerds" in Philly (or somewhere) and thought it was amateurish at best and he was shocked to hear it was coming to Broadway. We had all heard similar things. Even the title was a poor choice - we all assumed it was "Revenge of the Nerds" or other things, but definitely not a Gates/Jobs story. The rollout of the advertising campaign was not smooth and showed signs off struggle from early on. Many people on this board called it out. The NYTimes article about casting the show even sounded like the piece was dreadfully behind schedule and doing all it could to catch up. Finally, the show closed before it even opened so...it's not like we were all wrong, right?

 

People here aren't trying to be unsupportive, but most of the people on this board, in this town, in this world want to be on Broadway and doing these shows. Because of this, most people are hyper-critical when they see a major mistake in the form of a bad show, bad performance, etc. There is such a wealth of talent who are unable to be up on these stages due to bad luck, bad timing and so forth, so to see someone screw up...well...it makes people wonder why that person got that opportunity. I'm just curious as to why Ms. Murin doesn't understand this on a base level. Heck, Megan Hilty made an entire TV show about this. No one is being hateful, but people can and will have strong dissenting opinions - a lot of it derived from passion.

 

I remember when Adam Pascal was dragged through the mud for flubbing a line and then responded in a Facebook post stating that we, the posters on this board, "could never in a million years do what it is we do 8 times a week. [We] would step out on stage and piss [our] pants." That was offensive. Furthermore, in an earlier Playbill interview, Mr. Pascal had talked about how his job was actually quite easy in that he only had to really "work" for a few hours a week. (Point being: if it's so easy, Adam, then memorize your lines and don't point the finger at us for calling you out.) Mr. Pascal is also the same person who was very vocal in criticizing Spider-Man when that was popular. This all goes back to this idea that Pascal/Murin believe we can't understand or relate to them when a lot of us are actors and actually do what they do. We are allowed to be critical and hold our colleagues to certain standards.

 

Additionally, if Ms. Murin is going to delve into political correctness, why all the talk about needing to get drunk? She references alcohol as a coping mechanism at least twice and then some of her friends on Twitter continue to support the idea of going out to deal with this over drinks. If she wants to be the role model she's attempting to be, then I'd like to say I'm really offended by these alcohol references especially in an industry that has a long history of addiction issues. She's also now saying we should all just die in a fire, so...I mean...what's the point.

 

As previously stated, I'm a big fan of this board. I've liked it for a very long time and it's been actually useful in my life. If Ms. Murin and her friends don't like it, then I ask for all of them to keep off of it. You don't have to stay. We barely talk about you that much anyway. I can say total honesty that I did not know who Ms. Murin was until this all came out. Maybe that was the point. So it's not like you're Taylor Swift or the next hot teen idol and we're a bunch of unleashed 12 year old fans losing their minds. We share opinions - some are snarky, some are ignorant and yet some are insightful and wonderful and have value. 

 

Finally, I now feel like Ms. Murin is the troll here. I'm not sorry "Nerds" closed. I don't care and I never gave it a lot of thought. I didn't want to see the show from the minute I heard about it and I expected it to close within a few months at best. I also don't feel bad for you or the cast. I imagine it's a hard blow, but I also imagine this is something you've faced before and will face again. I know I have. So please don't drag us down with your show. I don't think anyone on this site attacked or bullied you or your team. I think we said what we were feeling about this piece you were creating and you didn't like what we said. If the piece is actually great, it will survived this and more and will go on to have a great life here or elsewhere. 

 

In the meantime...please leave us alone. I'll be sure to do the same next time I see your name attached to something.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:41pm

" I'd also like to know why none of these people are mentioning ATC, a chat board that is far nastier than here. "

 

I post on both boards and find BWW by far to be nastier - to each other and to performers. It isn't even close.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:46pm

LizzieCurry said: "ATC is also a lot more ephemeral -- posts in that message board format just fall off, so it's harder to look back and find old posts unless you copied/pasted or screencapped."

 

This is the biggest thing that bugs me about ATC; it has no archive and a minimal database on top of the overall...dated...design. I like reading the old threads around here about an old show or information about how things were done behind the scenes, in the business, or whatnot.

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 5:52pm

I do think we can all generally agree that the moderation on this website is extremely poor. I'm not saying we need to go full ban on everyone right away but there have been many times were mods would have came in handy and nothing was done about it. 

All of the other  message boards I'm on have mods that actually post as well and they don't allow name calling amongst posters either. 

Now debating what is harsh criticism or bullying gets to be more difficult cause it really depends on the situation. 

I feel like at least this might clear up some of the trolls now since they will be paying more attention to the boards. 

I really do love this place, my favorite thing to do after shows is my gf and me read the previews and reviews threads on the drive home from the show we just saw. There are so many intelligent posters on here and we enjoy reading their opinions on the shows. 

 

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:07pm

 

Well, I guess this is all the apology I will get: one of those fake politician apologies: I apologize to anyone who was offended, not because what I said and did was wrong, but because you're so thin-skinned.

 

Patti Murin ‏@PattiMurin  36m36 minutes ago

I apologize to everyone I have offended who use the boards for that reason. I love theatre, and I love people who love theatre.

 

 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 06:07 PM

[devonian.t]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:15pm

We're thin-skinned?  How did this all start?

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:19pm

I think she may be coming around!

[Princeton78]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:29pm

PJ,

I wouldn't accept that apology.

I've never been a fan of Murin, and I'm even less now.  As I said in my review of She Loves Me (so...so good!), I don't post here often anymore because I don't get to the theatre as much as I used to, and while I agree that occasionally posters can be overly snarky towards each other, I've never found it wrong to discuss, and gossip about performers and/or shows.  If producers are going to charge us $150+ per ticket, then damn straight we have a right to discuss the shows, the performers, the stage craft, the lighting, the 3rd violin, and so on.  In my line of work, I'm constantly subjected to unwanted criticism from people who have NO IDEA what I do.  At least those of us here on the boards, usually have some idea about the theatre.  I find Murin's remarks especially infuriating because I remember the fierce support on these boards for Xanadu, and LJ, both of which she appeared in, and both of which needed to put butts in seats desperately.  Way to alienate your supporters Patti.  If you've checked her Twitter feed since her little rant, it appears to be a list of "Oh thank you!"-s and "Oh, look who I know!"-s  in response to the support she's received from Broadway glitterati.  We get it Patti, you're friends with a bunch of theatre people.  

I could say more, but I fear I'd get myself in trouble.  I just really have lost all respect for the woman.  She really needs to calm down and realize that she picked this job, and with it comes criticism, and in a job where you need the public to respect and love you, pissing off 97% of posters on a giant website was not a smart move.  

I'm interested if/how this will affect her career.  

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:31pm

She's come 'round - to a point.

 

That being said, it's obvious that a big change needs to be made. @RobDiamondBWW and I are working together to make a safe space for all.

 

I wonder what she means by this. She's still not satisfied. I don't know why BWW would "work together" with her after she so recklessly endangered their reputation and brand name. 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 06:31 PM

[NYadgal]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:34pm

That's not much of an apology, PJ.

 

 For the most part, this thread has captured a wonderful and thoughtful discussion of an important topic.   

My thanks to all have shared such moving and informative posts.  

 

 

Edited to add:  I don't think she deserves credit for Rob's work.   

 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 06:34 PM

[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:38pm

I doubt she'll ever really "come around" because she's still gloating internally about "changing the boards!" and getting other Bway actors to blindly support her "cause." Everything she says from now on about loving Broadway fans will always ring with the edge of falseness. And she still has no idea what the term "bullying" means.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:40pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "I wonder what she means by this. She's still not satisfied. I don't know why BWW would "work together" with her after she so recklessly endangered their reputation and good name. "

 

She's unemployed so she's trying to "make" "work."

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:46pm

Whizzer I think you should  send her your post on the previous page. She is receptive to having direct messages with people on Twitter and responding to them. 

Updated On: 3/13/16 at 06:46 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:50pm

 

Apparently that was Part Two of her insincere apology. Part One was this equally insincere and frankly unctuous praise for BroadwayWorld:

 

Patti Murin ‏@PattiMurin  1h1 hour ago

I love @BroadwayWorld and the reason the message boards were created. To connect, share, debate, disagree and encourage passion for theatre.

 

 

Having never seen Ms. Murin perform, I can only assume she is more convincing onstage than she is on Twitter.

 

 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/13/16 at 6:57pm

Pootie2 said: "I doubt she'll ever really "come around" because she's still gloating internally about "changing the boards!" and getting other Bway actors to blindly support her "cause." Everything she says from now on about loving Broadway fans will always ring with the edge of falseness. And she still has no idea what the term "bullying" means."

 

Don't kill my optimism!