"Ring of Keys" Question- Page 4

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 6:01am

Use of the Greys was inspired. (And later thought of Carrie Fisher introducing "Next to Normal," same idea, theme/content attached to celebrity's personal narrative, albeit irreverently rendered in that case.) And I loved that Joel said "new American classic" about the show.  I'm also fascinated that this material, apparently as represented by this sweet, subversively empowering, in every way pitch-perfect song, seems to provoke so much rancor among a handful.  

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 6:25am

"Granted, Kad, but despite what they may think, Jews are not the only people in the world who read. My parents and grandparents did, and they were evangelical Christians. Appearances aside, Christian faith doesn't necessarily shut down the brain.

What an ugly thing to say.

 

 

 

[Comden Green]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 9:21am

""Granted, Kad, but despite what they may think, Jews are not the only people in the world who read. My parents and grandparents did, and they were evangelical Christians. Appearances aside, Christian faith doesn't necessarily shut down the brain.


What an ugly thing to say.
 

 

 

 

Not sure I understand how that's an ugly thing to say.    Going to need some help.   Care to elaborate? 

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 10:27am

Maybe I was just unaware that Jews think they are the only people who read.

Making negative generalizations about a group of people constitutes ugly in my book.

 

 

[inception]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 10:42am

"That same article said the win could lead to a longer tour and an increase in the number of regionals likely wanting to mount a production once the tour is over. SNIP

Even with the internet, once you get away from NY people generally aren't up to date with what's on Broadway and a big televised award like this does bring much attention.

Sunday night I was at a charity event following the updates on the awards. After Fun Home won I brought it up in conversation with a gay couple that I know just a bit who are deeply involved with both a theatre company and one of the city's larger art's festivals.  They had never heard of the show (which also tells me they never read my emails  or facebook posts). Sunday in person, when they couldn't just put me on ignore, they were fascinated when I explained the bare bones of the plot.

Then they proceeded to tell me about the amazing hit show they saw last year in NY that they are helping finance a local production of, a show that if I ever get to NY I "MUST RUN TO SEE"...

 

 

 

...Heathers ??

 

[Larcen26]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 11:04am

"can anyone explain the significance/what the words "ring of keys" is referring to? I understand that the song is about the young version of the main character beginning to discover her sexuality. But I still don't understand the title. Thanks :)"

This part of the question is the most important one I think, and the part that I think most of the posters in this thread are ignoring/missing.

I am hearing from the posters that apparently having some sort of ring of keys was a Lesbian "convention" (for the lack of a better word..."expression" maybe?) back when it was far less acceptable to be out publicly.

But this is not a well known thing outside of the community.  I had never heard of it before and I am clearly not alone.

The entire song went over my head because once I started to understand what she was talking about, the Keys came up again.  Is it more established in the dialogue before the song?  Maybe a phrase that was cut for the Tony presentation?  It just seemed really odd to me that the song focused on such an innocuous thing...(which, yes I get the symbolism of on all of the levels discussed previously) but I think it is a lyric that will distance a lot of people.  I kept wondering, are they keys symbolizing that she has a more traditionally masculine job?  Did her father (or other male figure) have a Ring of Keys like that too and she always associated that with a man?  Is there a monologue earlier talking about Keys?

It COMPLETELY pulled me out of the emotion of the song.  Clearly the keys were important, and it had something to do with the fact that the woman was the first "Butch" she had seen. But for someone who did not know the real-world association it came across as some sort of inside joke that they weren't letting the viewer in on...

I am not saying that there can't be symbolism.  I am not saying that there can't be multiple meanings.  I am not saying that the phrase shouldn't be used.  But I just think it needed a little more setup for someone coming into the story cold.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 11:11am

There's no other setup for keys in the show.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 11:11am

I think, for Alison as a kid, it's probably more that people who have big rings of keys are usually in charge of stuff. And she saw a strong, confident woman dressed like a man, with a big ring of keys, and all her perceptions of "femininity" were shattered.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 11:18am

I didn't know that keys were any sign of homosexuality (like handkerchiefs) until this thread, actually. For me, the full description in the song's chorus- her swagger, lace-up boots, ring of keys- paints a very clear image of a specific type of woman.

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 11:25am

^^^

This.

I'm guessing no one else read the article where Tesori explains why they chose that particular image.

They wanted to use things that were indicative of a specific type of lesbian without using terms like "butch", "manly", or other such words that may be interpreted as crass.

They went with lace up boots, dungarees and the ring of keys to convey who this woman is.

I didn't know about the meanings of such rings until ghostlight's post, which was a very interesting comment.

 

 

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 11:25 AM

[dtlajim]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:10pm

I teach kids who are 12 and 13 an advanced 7th grade History class. I've had a few kids who have a pretty amazing vocabulary for their age. Just this fall I had a student tell me how much she loved reading The Great Gatsby.

I have my advanced students reading Hesse's Siddhartha and Dickens' A Tale of Two Cities. You would be surprised at some of the sophisticated words some of my best students use in their writing. "Swagger" and "Bearing" are words my 7th graders would pick up from books and love to use to show how smart they are.

BTW I work in an urban immigrant working class community and all of my children are minorities, not a place where you would find daughters of college English professors, such as Alison in Fun Home, who would have books surrounding them on all sides.

[Larcen26]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:19pm

"I didn't know that keys were any sign of homosexuality (like handkerchiefs) until this thread, actually. For me, the full description in the song's chorus- her swagger, lace-up boots, ring of keys- paints a very clear image of a specific type of woman."

"^^^
This.
I'm guessing no one else read the article where Tesori explains why they chose that particular image.
They wanted to use things that were indicative of a specific type of lesbian without using terms like "butch", "manly", or other such words that may be interpreted and crass.
They went with lace up boots, dungarees and the ring of keys to convey who this woman is.
I didn't know about the meanings of such rings until ghostlight's post, which was a very interesting comment."

It's not that I don't get what the song is about.  What I don't get is why they chose that particular item to be so important.

I get the imagery.  I get the concept.  I get everything except the decision to make the entire focus of the song about the keys.  Everything else says "Butch Lesbian" to me and it all makes perfect sense...except the keys.  And I get the symbolism...I get why they chose the Boots, and swagger, and dungarees...I get it I really really do...

But the keys having such importance...they are the title of the song...the refrain...clearly they are the focus of Young Allison's attention. Dungarees, I get why those are important.  Swagger...check.  Lace up boots...yup.

Keys........?

No setup monologue saying..."And I couldn't stop focusing on her keys, funny how your mind fixates on certain things." or "I didn't know why the keys were important then, but I knew they were."

No line in the song saying something about how "the keys meant nothing but everything all at the same time."

So it left me wondering not about the girl, or her emotions, or her discovery...but about why are the damn keys so important.

Like I said above, the focus on the keys with no context around it just made me really feel like I was missing something and took me out of the moment completely.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:21pm

I don't think butch lesbians (back then also called bull dykes, bulldaggers, et al) codified their wardrobe the way gay men did.  They may have had signifiers but the gay men had CODES!

[tazber]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:21pm

I think it may be as simple as the fact that the keys are in the actual panel from the graphic novel.

They were looking at that I'm sure when they wrote the song.

 

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:35pm

It's very simple. It's what little Alison sees that impresses her. It doesn't need any other context. The ring of keys impressed upon her that this woman and she were connected.

It meant something to 11 year old Alison Bechdel and, as taz points out, it is part of the source material.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:36pm

"No setup monologue saying..."And I couldn't stop focusing on her keys, funny how your mind fixates on certain things." or "I didn't know why the keys were important then, but I knew they were."

I don't think you need to, because we are getting a whole song about it. It's showing and not telling.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:43pm

It's about the woman's masculinity.  We know that image for a man, not for a woman. It speaks to her.  Women put their keys in their purse.  Here's a gal with no pretense of a purse, just being herself in whatever form that takes. (I had no knowledge of the lesbian "imagery" of keys either - and surely small Alison had no idea either.)

 

To larcen's inquiry - I don't think it has to mean MORE than Alison's notice of all things masculine about this woman.  SEEING another woman, for the first time, that physicalized the way she has always felt.  She just felt connected, not so much an oddity.

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:45pm

^ Yes, it's just one of several things you'd associate with masculinity, it holds no more purpose than any of the other descriptions, it just sounds better.  I feel like they have taken the phrenetic aspects of Bruce and toned them down from the original recording, at least definitely at the Tony performance. 

[Kad]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 12:47pm

Dramamama: the connection to a purse is so wonderful to make. I never thought of that.

[Larcen26]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:07pm

My response to anyone saying that the reason they focused the song about the keys is because there were keys in the original illustration, or you read that they focused on the keys because it was outlined in an interview with Janine Tresori is that you shouldn't have to have outside information to make something understandable.  Outside of the song?  Maybe, but definitely not outside of the show itself.

And I still feel that people aren't understanding my concern/observation/question.

I get what the song is about.  I get that she is noticing a woman who matches how she feels on the inside.  I get that she is pointing out everything that she notices about her.  I get the song...I understand what it is saying...I get what it ties to in the book.  I get that the keys are something that represents something masculine to her.  I LOVE the comment above pointing out that it shows a contrast to keys being in a purse.  I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE SONG IS SAYING...Seriously, I do...I don't need another response saying the same thing.

What I DON'T understand, and wanted to discuss, is WHY they chose the keys to revolve the entire song around.  Why not the Dungarees? Or the Boots? Or the Swagger? Or any of the other more readily and clearly "butch" characteristics.  And why, when they chose to focus the song on the keys, did they choose to never examine why that particular item became so important when it is arguably the LEAST butch/masculine thing on the list.

And you can't use the answer that "They aren't important, they are just part of the whole thing." because the song is called "Ring of Keys", the most musical emphasis is put on those three words.  It doesn't change from verse to verse...the song is about the keys. (Yes,  I understand that it is not about the keys, and if your response to the statement above was "But it's NOT about the keys!" then you just don't understand my comment at all.)

I understand Showing not Telling.  I understand the power of that...unfortunately, I feel that this is a case of Telling and never Showing.  I feel they tell you that the Keys are important but don't show you why.

Updated On: 6/10/15 at 01:07 PM

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:27pm

The song is NOT about the keys.  It's about Alison's identity.  Calling the song: "I found my identity" would be stupid, it lacks poetry.  You can't separate the phrase from the song.

[South Florida]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:30pm

Let it go, you may feel better.  This conversation is nuts.  The song does not "revolve around" the ring of keys, that's just the title, it's only part of the song.

[artscallion]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:47pm

I think it's probably as simple as that of all the items listed, a ring of keys on a woman is probably the one thing she's never seen before.  Lots of woman have short hair or swagger or wear dungarees when they're gardening.  But for a women to wear a ring of keys, like a man would, is a more blatant expression.  There's no ambivalence to this particular sign.  Here is a woman doing all these questionable things like short hair that may make you wonder what she's about. Add to that the fact that she's got this ring of keys.  She may as well be smoking a pipe.  It's the thing that puts it all together and cinches the idea for her. 

It's not about lesbians having rings of keys.  She doesn't know from lesbians.  It's about her knowing only men as having rings of keys.  Suddenly here's this woman that has them.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 1:56pm

I wasn't there when the song was composed, but it's possible that they had a melody and that, of all the unique things about the woman Alison sees, ring of keys fit the melody line best. Given that Tesori has mentioned that she wanted the song at first more than Kron, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just as simple as that. 

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 6/10/15 at 2:29pm

I'd also ask Alison Bechdel. It's her reality and she drew the keys.