Rocktopia not paying chorus broadway salaries.- Page 3

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/6/18 at 10:33pm

felixleiter said: "HogansHero is incorrect, although he is fronting as if he is an expert.

Bruce Springsteen is appearing on Broadway without the benefit of an AEA negotiated contract. His crew is IATSE. His ushers are union.

It happens. Not often. But it happens. There is no "law" that requires this to be Union. There are agreements in place between the Broadway League and AEA. I may be wrong, but Rocktopia is not being produced by a League member. The schubert organization is merely a landlord.

And as a truly "practical manner" you should really understand the fundamentals of all of this before you either form an opinion, or, even worse, judge others for their opinions based on your own inflated view of your own idea of what "broadway" is.

PS-I support the union on this one."

Now that is not what I said, is it? I did not say AEA, I said some union. And (to repeat) no performer will appear without an agreement of some kind with some performing union. (This answers newintown (again) as well.)

The practical matter is that AEA (which has members in this show) has asserted jurisdiction and so within the time constraints the producer will either negotiate something with them, or abandon the show or abandon the "choir." 

You may be wrong, because you are. There is no such thing as a non-union show in a Broadway house. The Shuberts (note spelling please) not only ARE a League member, they have basically run the league for much of its duration. 

[felixleiter]

Posted: 3/6/18 at 10:48pm

What Union is covering Bruce Springsteen?
What Union covered the choirs that sang with Chenoweth?
When did the Shuberts become producers on this? Obviously you’re misunderstanding their involvement. Their deal as broadway league members doesn’t require them to have a say in what their tenants do when they are simply landlords.
Really this comes down to whether or not this is a concert or a piece of theatre. As a member of AEA I would love for the decision to come down on the side of this being a piece of theatre. However, i don’t know how successful AEA is going to be. It seems incredibly obvious that Rocktopia wasn’t created (or capitalized) with the idea of using 40 equity members making Production minimum singing in their choir/chorus.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/6/18 at 10:52pm

Hogan, at the risk of bruising the tender blossom of your ego, I feel that I should let you know that nothing I’ve written here is a response to anything of yours.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/6/18 at 11:25pm

@felix, I have to ask you once again to read what I wrote. 

You cannot circumvent the unions in a Broadway house. You misapprehend the Shubert's role by noting that they are not producers. That does not matter. As it has asserted jurisdiction over the "choir," nothing is going to happen until there is some agreement between AEA and the producer. Here, the means of enforcing that is surprisingly simple: Your fellow members performing in this show will not work without a contract, as I am sure you know.) 

@newintown I never thought you had. Ego. Irony. Hah.

[Kad]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 9:40am

One does not need to be an Equity member to work an Equity contract, and working an Equity contract does not make you a member. They can work under the contract's terms and even have dues deducted and benefit contributions made, but they do not have to actually join. For Paramour, everyone in the show was on a production contract. Not all joined. But all worked under the contract and its terms.

Also, regarding the choir:  in this case is that the members of this chorus/choir were all individually auditioned and cast. It wasn't a pre-existing choir brought in from the community, which Equity has allowances for.

Updated On: 3/7/18 at 09:40 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 10:01am

Some more clarification:

Equity claims jurisdiction over all Broadway houses for performers (like AGMA claims jurisdiction over union opera houses). Equity can cede that jurisdiction to another union when it determines it is appropriate, as I suspect happens with special events like Springsteen or The Illusionists, which would probably fall under AGMA or AGVA respectively (or if a show that was mostly dance had a performer that spoke, that performer alone would probably end up on an Equity contract).

In the case of Rocktopia, I would imagine that because a number of Equity members are potentially involved as both the chorus and are definitely involved as the lead performers, it is in Equity's best interest to assert jurisdiction.

Updated On: 3/7/18 at 10:01 AM

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 10:07am

If there are no actors on the stage, then the chorus members should be under Local 802 AFM (the musicians’ union), since they also cover singers, or AGMA, a sister union of Equity. $215 is easily an amount a singer would make in one service (or one performance), so if this figure is true and that’s how much they’re making a week, that’s truly atrocious. (I believe Local 802 does not allow auditions for Broadway jobs, though, and it’s all hired through contractors.)

Either way, union or non-union, if this $215/week salary is real, the producers should be ashamed and rightfully called out. And yes, people would be willing to work for that amount if it means they can say they’re in a “Broadway show.” Imagine how broke it would make them for having their dream come true. And this is why unions exist.

Updated On: 3/7/18 at 10:07 AM

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 1:31pm

Who came up with that number? $250  or $215?

I hear that is completely not true,

[trpguyy]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 1:34pm

CurtainPullDowner said: "Who came up with that number? $250 or $215?

I hear that is completely not true,"

According to the official statement from AEA, as mentioned in the article linked in the original post:

Producers are advertising this as a Broadway show and charging Broadway ticket prices - but their Broadway Chorus isn't being offered an Equity contract. In fact, we've heard from members who have reported being offered as low as $215 for a week of Chorus work.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 5:59pm

"being offered"

We need to hear first hand from a choir member, everyone else is just spreading rumors.

[bk]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 6:44pm

Tapping23 said: "Sondheimite said: "$250 a week is a joke and is not anywhere close to a livable wage. This is exploitation because producers know that performers are desperate. F*CK these producers."



Equity released that amount as it was “reported” to them from a third party performer. That has not been confirm s by anyone else."

I have been saying this in this thread the entire time.  Equity always does this when they're trying to get something - they make it up to inflame.  This is their history.

[bk]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 6:51pm

Tapping23 said: "@HOGAN you have no clue what you are talking about. AEA has no jurisdiction.

https://broadway.news/2018/03/06/actors-equity-speaks-rocktopia-pay-chorus-members/"

You're not gonna win with ol' ryhog.  Can't happen.  Everyone read the article here where everything you need to know is clearly laid out.  The producers have attempted to negotiate, whatever that was wasn't good enough for Equity, and so of course Equity does their hardball stuff, knowing they have no power in this situation.  Maybe they'll come to an understanding, maybe not, but the point is the producers don't need Equity.  And until someone confirms that this $250 or $215 number has come from an actual person and is based on actual fact, I will continue to assume it is made up and specifically designed to inflame this situation.  It's a tactic they've used many, many times.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 7:56pm

Can you people not read? 

Hopeless.

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 8:34pm

I just did the math, and if they are working for $275 per week, and play 8 shows a week with a 2 hour long show, they are being paid a mere $34.38 per day, at $17.19 per hour. That's only as much as a nanny would make! Anybody preforming to Broadway houses should not be paid that close to minimum wage. I cannot believe this show will be allowed to go on when these performers will go home with $1,100 in rent each month, which is barely enough for a room in Brooklyn, nevermind food, electricy, phones or any other necessities! This show should raise the wage or not perform at all.

[felixleiter]

Posted: 3/7/18 at 8:45pm

Hogan-

The problem I have is that you seem convinced that every show that has ever played on Broadway has used Union performers (whether they are AEA or not). That simply isn't true. As I've said in other replies-What Union is representing Bruce Springsteen?

Unlike IATSE , AFM and the Ushers and the rest of the Unions, AEA doesn't have deals in place with the Theatreowners, reagrdless of who they are.    ON Broadway, they negotiate with the Producers of the Shows. AEA Jurisdiction within the "Broadway Box" as it is known, is only exclusive when it is a league producer who is presenting the show.  Rocktopia is not being produced by a league member so Equity can't just claim blanket jurisdiction and insist that the production contract be used.   Now, it gets confusing when there are league members who are also theatre owners.  The Shubert (thanks for the spelling correction BTW-my iphone apparently doesn't believe you) organization owns the Broadway Theatre, but again, as of now, they are only landlords and have no money in this show. If they did, this would be almost a non-issue because the existing deal with the League would apply and Equity would be able to exert even greater pressure.  Jurisdiction in that case would be a foregone conclusion.

It seems with this, according to Equity's public stance, both in the press and in the emails that we members received yesterday, that the Union is seeking to organize this on a somewhat "good faith" basis, prevailing on the members that are in the show (Rob Evan, Danny Zolli, etc)  to bring this into the fold.   A lot of batting back and forth has taken place about the distinction of the Choir/Chorus.  Rocktopia, when on tour, traditionally utilizes (sometimes multiple) choirs when playing in various cities.  When attempting to do so in New York,  some AEA members got brought in, and that is where a lot of the trouble seems to have started. 

Apparently there is a mixture of pro, semi-pro, avocational, etc that is part of this 35-40 piece choir/chorus for this NYC run and that brings along with it the usual time conflicts and learning curves that we would expect.  This is where the low wages come into play.  Some people, during this short run, are only available for certain performances. Some are doing them all.  Everyone in the Choir is holding books. Rehearsals are only happening in the final days before Tech. So, with all of this, the Producers are trying to do everything they can to maintain the integrity of the show while at the same time do things like pro-rate (or in the Union's eyes underpay), while still having enough people to actually carry the show.  I don't envy them in this regard.

At the end of the day, as much as I'd love to see this be an AEA job for the performers, I think that the reality of it is that the producers hold the cards here when it comes to jurisdiction, especially when they can just say that it's a concert.  AEA would need to make some serious concessions in terms of payment for that choir in order for it to make financial sense for the producers to use a union contract.  

 

[bdn223]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 11:08am

With Rocktopia's defense being "We're a touring show" would that imply that the producers are paying for room and board of its cast?

If so I still think $250/week is unthinkably low, I could understand an argument of paying choir members $750 a week as they are getting free housing and food, but even Disney on Ice pays its cast members a minimum of $500-$800 a week. 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 11:13am

Tapping23, did you seriously just copy and paste everything on your screen, including the text of ads and headlines?

[frogs_fan85]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 11:51am

Springsteen has to be in SAG-AFTRA or ASCAP (or both) and I'd imagine that that is sufficient standing for the IATSE and Local 751 members that work at the Kerr.

[trpguyy]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 12:22pm

bdn223 said: "With Rocktopia's defense being "We're a touring show" would that imply that the producers are paying for room and board of its cast?

If so I still think $250/week is unthinkably low, I could understand an argument of paying choir members $750 a week as they are getting free housing and food, but even Disney on Ice pays its cast members a minimum of $500-$800 a week."

Probably not. Most theatrical union contracts do not provide per diem in NYC, as it’s assumed that NYC is “home” for most people. It becomes a big issue/hassle whenever a Broadway tour goes to Broadway (Motown and Hair come to mind).

[LightsOut90]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 12:40pm

yall are spending alot of time and energy over a show that's obviously going to be a HUGE flop

[Fosse76]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 12:57pm

bdn223 said: "With Rocktopia's defense being "We're a touring show" would that imply that the producers are paying for room and board of its cast?

If so I still think $250/week is unthinkably low, I could understand an argument of paying choir members $750 a week as they are getting free housing and food, but even Disney on Ice pays its cast members a minimum of $500-$800 a week."

Just to add a little perspective: the ushers at the Broadway Theatre earn $56 per performance. If they work all 8 shows, their weekly pay is $448.

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 1:56pm

LightsOut90 said: "yall are spending alot of time and energy over a show that's obviously going to be a HUGE flop"

THIS. Where is their target audience anyway? I can't find it.

[felixleiter]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 4:12pm

dearalanaaaa said: "LightsOut90 said: "yall are spending alot of time and energy over a show that's obviously going to be a HUGE flop"

THIS. Whereis their target audience anyway? I can't find it."

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it's the friends and relations of the choir members....

[raddersons]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 4:35pm

dearalanaaaa said: "LightsOut90 said: "yall are spending alot of time and energy over a show that's obviously going to be a HUGE flop"

THIS. Whereis their target audience anyway? I can't find it."

Fans of the TransSiberian Orchestra? They seem to sell out shows every Christmas, and I still can't figure out why. 

[bk]

Posted: 3/8/18 at 4:38pm

Again everyone is posting about the 275/250/215 as if that were factual.  It is unsubstantiated and put out in the ether by Equity to inflame this situation.  They "heard" from one person (unnamed) that the offer was 250 or whatever.  Until anyone here actually knows what the offer was, and I highly doubt it was that figure, all the breastbeating is just that.