Sondheim vs. Porgy & Bess - YIKES!- Page 10

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 10:45am

I did some research last night and discovered this (not sure if it is 100% accurate, and if anyone has more information please feel free to add it.

ALL musicals by the Gershwin brothers are currently licensed as "THE GERSHWINS' [insert title here]".

The same is true for all Rodgers and Hammerstein shows (the recent revival was "Rodgers and Hammerstein's South Pacific, look at the playbill) and Irving Berlin shows (Irving Berlin's White Christmas).

While I agree with Sondheim that it is sad that Heyward's work is not taken into account with the billing, I do not fault the producers if the liscencing agreement is the reason this production has "The Gershwins'..." in the title.

[Blactor]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 10:46am

"No one might have explicitly made racialized comments in the Times piece, but when McDonald says that Bess "is not always a full-blooded character," in my mind she's saying that Bess is an archetype--a variation of the "tragic negress" one might find in the works of Nella Larsen or in Show Boat. Make of that what you will. SeanMartin might have phrased what he was trying to say better, but I don't think his premise--that several educated women of color, attuned to both the history of this piece and the history of race in America--might be trying to refocus the representation of certain aspects of the piece. "

AC,

Thanks for laying that out. I totally see the reasoning behind that. I still don't quite see, for me, why race absolutely HAS to be a central part of this particular discussion, or linked to the comments of Ms. Parks or Ms. McDonald. I, personally, didn't glean that from what she was saying. Of course, as I said before, I also don't know much about the piece itself, aside from its most famous songs.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 10:49am

One of the aspects of those crying racism and negative stereotypes towards a show like Porgy and Bess I find so fascinating is that one of things that made the show so remarkable for its day was having an primarily black cast of diverse characters in situations relevant to the period. It just sets up a lose-lose situation where you either have a show that is laughably unrealistic and pretend that a minority is somehow above diversity within its ranks. Or you get blasted for illustrating truths because you are of a different race and painted as patronizing. Spielberg suffered the same backlash when directing The Color Purple and I found that to be just as ridiculous.

If the white guys didn't write the opera of Porgy and Bess, would it have been written at all? Probably not. The story already existed as a novel and a play by Heyward. Did the white guys make drastic changes that transformed the characters into offensive stereotypes. Somehow, I doubt it. Were the original nbovel and play subject to the same derision? I honestly don't know, but I haven't heard as such. It seems like the issues were really brought into light once the opera received acclaim.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 10:56am

I guess because for all intents and purposes the novel and the play don't exist anymore. I've never encountered them, but I have a half dozen recordings of "Porgy and Bess."

I think the issue is phrased very well in NYMag.com's piece on the Sondheim brouhaha:

"It’s a story of 'black life' penned by a white Southerner, scored by a New York Jewish composer, written in dialect (cartoonish, by today’s standards) and containing strong whiffs of well-intentioned paternalism, tourism, and exoticism."

But I think "well-intentioned" is possibly the most important phrase in that description.
NY Mag article Updated On: 8/12/11 at 10:56 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 11:58am

That's a great article! He also assumes that the racial politics of the piece were really what Paulus and Parks are trying to change. None of us know that--because they haven't said anything to that effect--but it seems like the obvious thing to want to do:

===

I suspect there’s some coded politics in play, as the creative team is walking a tightrope: They don’t want to suggest the original show was offensive — or, worse, irrelevant — because that would raise the question Why stage it at all?

===

Very good article!

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 12:35pm

I have to say that, as an actor (and, very, very rarely, a director), I'm very much drawn to roles and shows that I find, in some way, troublesome. Be it the politics of a show, the possible stereotyping of characters or the simple fact that I think a show is not particularly good, there's something about trying to unearth what I think is vital in a flawed piece. It's a wonderful challenge, and truly exciting. And, frankly, nothing makes you grow as an artist more than encountering these challenges. I did a production early in my career of The Mousetrap, playing Christopher Wren. Some were offended by my clearly gay (and unhinged) portrayal. And, in some ways, I do think I took the easy way out. So, I've been very much drawn to roles that can very easily fall into stereotype and have tried my best to make them fully realized characters. The funny thing is, by stretching myself in these sorts of roles, it's made me infinitely better at playing every other kind of role.

My guess is these women (smart and creative all) had similar feelings about this project. It's an extrordinary score, but a piece that perhaps has some dated, troubling politics underlying. It's intoxicating taking on that kind of challenge...and sometimes people can get carried away with how they feel about their contributions. My guess is that's where the quotes in the article come into play.

I very much respect Sondheim's opinion that Porgy and Bess is the most perfect piece of music theatre ever created (if that's indeed his opinion). But I also can't discount the many black artists today who might find the piece...untruthful in a way.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 1:56pm

Maybe it's both.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 3:51pm

"The bottom line is that Sondheim isn't objecting to them making revisions, but he is objecting to them presenting themselves as "fixers" and "show doctors" who are taking care off all the terrible things that were wrong with this piece to begin with"

Hmm...now this sounds horribly familiar. Perhaps it doesn't count if the "fixer" and the "show doctor" is the original book writer, but there were just so many terrible things that Mr. Laurents just had to change in West Side Story...the ending, the grit, removing unnecessary ballets, adding a very necessary red-headed child...oh well, at least his arrogance was earned in the fantastic revival so clearly better than the original in every way...

[B3TA07]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 4:36pm

How dare he attack Audra. She was a better Dot than Bernadette Peters could ever have been.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 5:13pm

I'd like to see Bernadette as Bess.

[AC126748]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 5:20pm

Mandy as Porgy? Or Crown?

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:04pm

I'd love to see Bernadette as Bess.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:23pm

Okay, now we're getting silly, so pardon me while I gush like a fanboy and say how much I am enjoying this discussion. (And a special thanks to Pal Joey and others for the historical contexts.)

Good point about certain estates incorporating only specified authors' names into the title. It always bugs me when I see "R&H's South Pacific" or "R&H's Sound of Music."

This practice strikes me as corporate bureaucracy run amok. As opposed to the other "Sound of Music"? People who care about authors look up their names; other people don't give a crap what name is in the title. IMO, obviously.

In all fairness to Cheryl Crawford in 1942 (thanks again, joey) , I blame this trend on Meredith Willson, who sold "The Music Man" to Hollywood as "Meredith Willson's The Music Man."

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:27pm

You can blame the trend on Walt Disney long before Meredith Wilson. And that trend is supported to this day!

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:32pm

Good point, best. Obviously, Disney is more a brand than an author, but I assume that is the intent of the R&H, Gershwin and Berlin estates, to perpetrate a brand.

Since I do my level best to ignore commercial labels, it all seems silly to me. But maybe there's an audience out there that needs the guidance.

[jv92]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:33pm

But it WAS Meredith Wilson's MUSIC MAN. He wrote the whole damned show. Franklin Lacey gets "story" credit, but that's different from writing the book, music and lyrics yourself.

And as best12bars says-- Uncle Walt started the whole thing of branding a person's name above a title long before Meredith Wilson, R&H, or The Gershwins.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:37pm

You're absolutely right, jv92. Some branding seems more factual than others. I was only addressing the need for adding authors to titles and had set aside for the moment Sondheim's complaint about the omission of Heywood.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:39pm

And Sir James M. Barrie is none too pleased about that!



WHOSE Peter Pan?

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 6:42pm

Lionel Bart's "Oliver!" is another example, but again, he wrote the whole show. There was no collaboration at all. Just his personal adaptation of the Dickens work.

Uncle Walt started branding early. His animated features are all "officially" known as "Walt Disney's ..."

Walt Disney's Snow White
Walt Disney's Dumbo
Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty
Walt Disney's Mary Poppins

In some cases, with the old fairy tales, it's understandable, since so many of them were pubic domain, and there had been countless film adaptations even by the time Uncle Walt got around to producing them.

Still, it's automatically attached to all their movies ... as the official title, too.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 7:51pm

I know that as a newcomer I have no right to complain, but I wish there were a way to briefly acknowledge informative posts like those directly above this one.

You know: an "I read this and thank you for posting it" button.

[best12bars]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 7:56pm

They should have "like" buttons here, Gaveston2.

Thanks for the remark, and welcome to the boards, BTW.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 8:23pm

It's interesting to read about all the objections attributed to Porgy & Bess. They have existed for a long time. When they were casting the 1959 movie version Sidney Poitier flat out refused to participate because he found the portrayals offensive, he wound up doing it because he was told if he didn't there was no way in hell they were going to give him THE DEFIANT ONES.

Many told Dorothy Dandridge not to do the film as well but her career needed a boost and she feared making the same mistake she made when she turned down the role of "Tuptim" in THE KING & I.

The others who participated, they just used the vehicle to their advantage for exposure, especially when all black productions or roles for black actors period were too few and far between, but many including Diahann Carroll have since discussed their disdain for the material.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 9:05pm

Thanks for the welcome, best12bars.

I'm proud that my first really good "dis" on this board came from you the other day. (Seriously. You weren't nasty and I understood your point of view.) Updated On: 8/12/11 at 09:05 PM

[jv92]

Posted: 8/12/11 at 9:09pm

ATC is reporting that "Summertime" is having its original key changed-- I guess from the soprano range to the mezzo. I guess aside from butchering the libretto, they're going to butcher the score too.

Posted: 8/12/11 at 9:21pm

"I personally think if you're doing Showboat and you don't let the first word of the show be 'n*s,' then you're a coward.

Agreed. It comes down to people (like Hal Prince) trying to present the piece simplistically as a "family show" rather than what it truly is--a finely tuned appraisal of race, love, personal humanity, and society."

I think that's vastly unfair, at least in regards to Prince. If anything he helped rescue the show from an increasing tradition of it being seen as a family show, with the uglier aspects downplayed.