Sweeney Film... why cut the songs?

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:24pm

I have now seen the film twice and understand why the Ballads were cut... but I still am left puzzled by some decisions. I realize they wanted to downplay the Johanna Anthony story line but I don't see why they cut Kiss Me but included Ladies and Their Sensitivities as well as Wait... Neither 'Ladies' nor 'Wait' really add much to the plot, the characters, or the movie... I think Kiss Me would have added a little more to the young lovers' characters. The people I saw it with today who were not familiar with the show wondered why Johanna and Anthony were in the movie at all aside from explaining backstory and stopping Sweeney's first attempt at Turpin...

anyone thoughts? Maybe we'll get Kiss Me on the DVD... was it ever filmed?

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:27pm

Sondheim and the other creators have explained why KISS ME was cut. It would've been so repetitive and silly on screen. Plus Logan/Burton didn't want Anthony and Johanna to verbally communicate until the end.

[joshy]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:29pm

No, "Kiss Me" was never filmed or recorded.

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:30pm

thanks... just wondering

but just saying... 4 out of the 20ish people in my theatre left to go to the bathroom during WAIT... it's just boring and doesnt further the plot much

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:31pm

The fact that anyone would complain about songs cut from this film is surprising to me. Actually, not it's not, but it SHOULD be. It's AMAZING how much survived. Truly amazing.

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:34pm

and for that i am grateful... I'm not saying I wish they were cut so much as I wish that Kiss Me had been saved over Wait and Ladies... I love EVERY song from this perfect score... just really miss Kiss Me and think the Anthony-Johanna thing is way underdeveloped for the people that haven't seen the stage show

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:40pm

"Kiss Me" was cut because it was written partially as a comedic number. Johanna's reactions in the song are big and over the top and quite funny. Having a moment like that in this serious film for a secondary character, who otherwise isn't a comedic characer, wouldnt have worked.

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:43pm

but this movie didn't have to be so dark... i think it would have been great if Tim Burton had made it into a deliciously dark comedy... I think a lot of it is funny but i could do with more...

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:45pm

Just exactly what is "Kiss Me" repeating that is already in the film?

Cut? Sure. Because it's already there?

No.

[javertim]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:53pm

"Wait" adds everything to the plot. Without that song, Sweeney would have just killed Turpin from the moment he walked into his shop. The whole rest of the story/film happens because Lovett suggests that Todd take his time and relish in setting the trap.
Updated On: 12/23/07 at 08:53 PM

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:56pm

^ Good point. I think it's obvious WAIT was written so Lansbury could have another showcase number. BUT it does advance the plot, and I think it's quite a hauntingly beautiful song.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 8:58pm

I would have prefered "Kiss Me" be included in place of "Wait". "Wait" is beautiful and it does add a little something to the plot, but it's also a little something that could be said in one line. I like it on stage, but the film would not have suffered without it.
Updated On: 12/23/07 at 08:58 PM

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:01pm

"but this movie didn't have to be so dark... i think it would have been great if Tim Burton had made it into a deliciously dark comedy... I think a lot of it is funny but i could do with more..."

Except that's not the direction he took. He made a scorching and horryifying examination of the darkest side of humans, and he succeeded brilliantly.

And re: "Wait", it is one of the most crucial songs in the show. It is the stimulus for many important actions afterwards.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:02pm

- but the film would not have suffered without it.



Just like the film does not suffer without KISS ME. The film is written so the two lovers don't verbally communicate until the end. There would have been no way KISS ME would have worked, without John Logan re-writing several aspects of his script.

I think KISS ME is a great duet, and I find the quartet to be one of the greatest written for stage. But I agree with Sondheim that it would look utterly stupid and silly in a film.


Updated On: 12/23/07 at 09:02 PM

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:05pm

I'm not missing "Kiss Me" so much as I think it's a shallow mistake to have the young lovers meet for the first time at the end of the film.

It makes them Ken and Barbie.

That is more "stupid," considering what each of them risk for the love of someone they only saw from a window a couple of times, than anything found in "Kiss Me."

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:16pm

Best:

I think that Burton and Logan were working on the contrast between youth and innocence versus adulthood and that innocence being gone.

And the musical, obviously, works in extremities. Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett are so corrupted by life; it has turned them into evil people. On the otherhand, Johanna and Anthony have not yet really lived. They are innocent and naive, and they have this life all planned out together before they really know each other. But we see what has become of the people in this place once they leave their innocence behind, and I think it is ominous at best what will happen to Johanna and Anthony.

I think this is made clear at the very beginning of the film. Many have squabbled about the youth of Anthony, because he clearly is not old enough to have sailed the world and beheld its wonders. But I think that is the point entirely. He thinks he is wise and worldy, but he is young and foolish. And we learn this right when Sweeney steps in and interrupts Anthony singing about all his experience.

Updated On: 12/23/07 at 09:16 PM

[wickedfan]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:54pm

The end of the film isn't the first time that the two young lovers have interacted. It's just the first time that we see it. As much as I love "Kiss Me", I think with the direction Burton and Logan went with the character of Johanna it would not have worked, mainly juxtaposing and contradicting what Johanna now is in the film: a pessimist, sad and scarred because of the past experiences in her life.

I think it's a brilliant touch in that respect. I mean, after all that Johanna has gone through (she's probably gone through some of the most painful experiences in the film), would we really expect her to be an optimistic innocent? I don't think so. And yes, we do lose "Kiss Me", I don't think Burton's film loses anything from it.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 9:56pm

Actually, with that in mind, I would have liked it if Burton and Logan had added the scene where Judge Turpin proposes to Johanna, if anything just so that the two could have some more screen time together (their wonderful scene after "A Little Priest" was too brief for me).

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:00pm

http://www.theatermania.com/peterfilichia/

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:07pm

Thanks for the link!

Screenwriter John Logan’s greatest contribution is making Johanna substantially smarter than her stage counterpart. The elimination of “Kiss Me” helps, but Logan put a brain in this girl’s head – and not a moment too soon. Over the years, many haven’t been able to root for the Anthony-Johanna alliance, because she’s such a twit. Here we actually like her.

I agree with him. Logan gave Johanna much more of an edge in the film, and it works.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:19pm

I found this very interesting and enlightening.
Sondheim Dismembers 'Sweeney'

[singingwendy]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:26pm

Johanna has a brain? How can we know that or anything about her when she speaks less than 20 words of dialogue in the whole film...and only sings for about a minute? If anything, I found her more a desperate, pretty porcelain doll than she usually is in the stage production.

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:33pm

Not only does 'Wait' add an important aspect to the story -- suggesting that Todd take his time and relish his revenge, it's also a theme that reappears in 'Epiphany' and the finale.

'Wait' is thematically and dramatically integral to the two main characters.


Updated On: 12/23/07 at 10:33 PM

[GYPSY1527]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:36pm

As others have mentioned before, Kiss Me serves not only as a comic relief for the audience but is also very theaterically based. It would not work at all on film and sometimes even on stage comes across as over the top to some non regular theater goers/audience members. The song Wait is vital to the plot in numerous ways already mentioned by numerous posters. As ljay mentioned its also a beautifully constructed piece.

[Wildcard]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 10:45pm

"Wait" was actually not in the original film script. Tim Burton had asked that it be reinstated bec. it showed a gentler side to Mrs. Lovett.