Sweeney Film... why cut the songs?- Page 2

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:01pm

"Kiss Me serves not only as a comic relief for the audience but is also very theaterically based. It would not work at all on film and sometimes even on stage comes across as over the top "

So many songs, by definition "would not work at all on film" but somehow they do. I doubted the humor of A Little Priest would work... I doubted a lot would work ie EVERYTHING in Chicago... but it is the director's challenge to make it work.

All i'm saying is that I personally miss Kiss Me and think Tim Burton is good enough to make it work...

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:05pm

"Wait" was actually not in the original film script. Tim Burton had asked that it be reinstated bec. it showed a gentler side to Mrs. Lovett.

Sorry, it's a threadjack, but why "bec."?

[JoshuaEads]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:06pm

With all this talk in regards to the "original" screenplay, does anyone have a link to a reading copy?? I'm assuming this is the script that most likely would have been used for the Sam Mendes version? It all sounds very interesting; what other numbers / segments were excised?

~Joshua

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:12pm

"All i'm saying is that I personally miss Kiss Me and think Tim Burton is good enough to make it work... "

Actually that wasn't what you were saying. What you were saying was: "Neither 'Ladies' nor 'Wait' really add much to the plot, the characters, or the movie."

Which isn't especially the same thing.

[parislover87]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:18pm

you're right... so let me rephrase.

I don't think that Wait and Ladies add so much to the plot that they warrant an entire song... I understand the points that have been made in support of Wait's importance........ but I think some smart dialogue could have worked as well. I think part of my argument that I maybe didn't articulate is that I have, in the past three days, brought 15 of my friends into the world of Sweeney Todd with no previous exposure. ALL of them, and I mean ALL questioned the lack of emphasis on the Johanna Anthony storyline and when I told them that many songs (ah miss, kiss me 1 and 2) were cut they began to question some of the songs that stayed in its place. I guess this is probably the wrong way to look at it... I was looking at songs being cut for the sake of length not what would 'work' but Tim made just about everything 'work'

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:42pm

I found a link to one version of Logan's script. It has WAIT in it, but it also has all the sung ballads and the factory whistle. So it's not his earliest draft and certainly not his final draft.

[JoshuaEads]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:53pm

LJay,

Where is this link?

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/23/07 at 11:54pm

http://www.paramount2007.com/site/index.html

This is an official Paramount site, so I assume this is legal to post. Just click the main Sweeney picture and you will see the donwload.

[TheFriarsDruggist]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:10am

Aside from The Ballad Of Sweeney Todd, the only cut I REALLY was wishing they'd have included was the Judge's version of 'Johanna.' Partially just because I wanted more of Alan Rickman.

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:13am

Sondheim has also stated that he wishes the Judge's Johanna was in it too. I think he said that's the only cut he would bring back if he could. Updated On: 12/24/07 at 12:13 AM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:32am

I think this is the final script immediately prior to production. Remember that Tim Burton and Logan decided to cut the ballads very shortly before filming began.

This script is fairly different than the version I read a couple of years ago (when it was going to be directed by Mendes).

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:34am

This script also has all the choral singing in GOD THAT'S GOOD. And all the verses of BY THE SEA, which I really miss.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 12:41am

And re-reading Logan's script, I'm all the more affirmed that cutting the ghost-chorus was the right choice.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 4:28am

I do think that "Wait" is needed because it is used in the beginning of "Epiphany." Can't have Mrs. Lovett's line in that song without having the song it references. It is a central theme of Lovett's character. It deserves to be there.

~Steven

[choitoy]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 5:48am

Kiss me is great in the theatre, but it seems a little too over the top for the movie.

Johanna was played more like an innocent porcelain doll in the beginning of the movie and all the way up to the end, and to try to place "Kiss Me" on top of this characterization would seem odd and way too comedic.

Anyways, who in the general audience would know what a "reticule" is anyway?

[dfwtheatreguy]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 11:09am

i miss "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" - i think that would have been a great way to begin the movie over the credits and then to punctuate the action like it is in the stage version, but overall - great film.

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 8:58pm

Thanks for posting that NY TImes article (Sondheim Dismembers Sweeney). That was BRILLIANT.

I swear to god Sondheim might be one of the greatest people ever. ahha.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 10:29pm

The plot-moving elements of "Kiss Me" (IE- Anthony sneaking into the house, and conspiring with Johanna) are still there. They occur off-screen and are explained later through dialogue. The plot elements of "Wait" could've been boiled down into dialogue, sure. But they chose to include the parts of the original score that would translate best onto the screen. And you know what, 'Wait' worked extremely well on-screen. I wasn't bored. Burton made that song, set in one very plain room, visually interesting.

Quartets such as Kiss Me do not work well on film. It involves two completely different groups of people in two completely different locations. All singing different lyrics. On stage, you can buy that S.R. is a London street, and that S.L. is Johanna's room. On screen, you'd have to cut back and forth and have Party B's off-screen voices singing while Party A is on-screen. And it wouldn't be pretty.

Not to mention, it would require the inclusion of Ah, Miss. And the full version of Ladies in Their Sensitivities. Which, totally, would add approximately 10 minutes to the run time of the film.

The Johanna trio worked well because it has one primary singing character, with Anthony and the Beggar Woman having "solo" moments. Compared to Kiss Me, there is very little overlapping.

The thing is, even with all the cuts to the Anthony/Johanna plotline.... it didn't lose much. They were really just as developed as in the show (not a whole lot). The same events still happened, even if they weren't shown.

[americanboy99]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 10:34pm

Yes, WAIT may not be the most interesting number in the film, but that one shot of Carter and Depp in the shattered mirror is absolutely genius. I gasped when I saw it on the screen. Brilliant.

[outovfashion07]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 10:47pm

I don't understand why they felt the need to downplay the characters of Joanna and Anthony... Every time that boy came running in the shop it felt like something was missing, it felt like he was making an entrance on cue and had no motivation to do so. I'm not saying it was the actors fault, but the scripts. Even if they didn't want to include the song "Kiss Me" in the film they could have at least left a shred of that scene. When Anthony runs into the barber shop and announces that Joanna has agreed to go away with him that is a pretty big revelation. It seemed odd to me (and most that I was with) that we would not see her make this decision to defy all she has known growing up. I really felt like Burton made this "The Johnny Depp Show" and not the awesome movie he could have. And Johnny's performance wasn't even that great.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/24/07 at 11:14pm

If it seems like a character makes an entrance simply because he is supposed to, then that is indeed the actor's fault. Not the screenwriter's.

Secondly, Tim Burton didn't write the screenplay. The most recent screenplay before the movie was filmed (which included the Ballads, chorus parts of God! That's Good, and a dozen lines that are now cut) had already made Sweeney more... Sweeney-centric. Honestly, I don't think it could've been done another way.

We understood Johanna was fiercely unhappy, and wanted to leave her life through the scenes we were given.

The story isn't about Johanna and Anthony. It is about Sweeney Todd. On stage, there can be more indulgence with subplots. On screen, the primary story has to keep moving. Which it did. And the central components of the Anthony/Johanna subplot were still there.

[A Director]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 4:24am

For those of you who think that "Wait" and "Ladies in Their Sensitivities" add nothing to the show, I suggest you write Mr. Sondheim and tell me. There is no need for every songs to further the plot. "The Ballad of Sweeney Todd" introduces the characters and story, but it does not further the plot.

Perhaps Judge Turpin's "Johanna" would add to the movie; on the other hand, there are scenes that clearly reveal his character.

In the movie, Johanna' speech to Anthony in their final scene adds something to her character. She's a realist; he's a romantic dreamer. In the stage version, the final scene's focus is not on the two lovers.

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 5:20am

I think that the part where Judge Turpin, is threatening Anthony in the study, explains to the audience that not only had Johanna had eyes for Anthony but the Judge is aware of this. With his snooping on Johanna all of the time. She also gives him the key to the House, so even though she fears uttering a word, their feelings are established well enough for me.

Didn't Johanna stand up to the Judge, when he offers her Marriage? She tells him he isn't a Gentleman for barging into her room without knocking? She looked older too, so that took away some of the naive girl issues away from me at least.

I thought Wait was important because it showed Mrs. Lovett was once again trying to protect Sweeney from himself. Wasn't there customers down below at that moment? She was still holding desperately onto leaving all of this to make her dreams come true right? I've only seen it once still so I could be mistaken exactly when Mrs. Lovett confronts Sweeney with Wait.

I too wish we heard The Ballad of Sweeney Todd in the Movie. It would have worked better in the beginning, which I found a little weak. The Ballad kind of rallies you up for what you are in for with this Movie.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 5:31am

As big as the orchestration's were, The Ballad of Sweeney Todd would have worked over the closing credits with a huge choir. Especially after the semi anti-climactic way the ending was done.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 12/25/07 at 9:42am

My sentiments exactly- a big choir doing the Ballad over the closing credits - some editing might have been required ( he rarely laughed but he often smiled) but 'twas not meant to be.