The "We Hate Ethel Merman Club" ???

[Belasco07]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 10:06am

Ok--I am getting so sick of the people on this board who pour scorn upon Ethel Merman. I realize that we are each entitled to our own AESTHETIC opion, but NO one can disprove Merman's CONTRIBUTION to American Musical Theatre. We all refer to the great Bernadette Peters as the only "goddess" of Musical comedy, but we forget that without Ethel Merman, Arthur Laurents would have never written the role of Mamma Rose; and Jule Styne would have never composed those gloriously compelling songs. And what about Annie Get Your Gun? In the late 30s, 40s, and 50s, Ethel Merman's supreme vocal range made her a MUSE for such composers such as Berlin and Gershwin (Girl Crazy). I can't believe that some people are so shallow as to forget the legacy of our theatrical past.

OK--I'm ready for everyone to kill me now.....

[bernadette88]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 10:11am

no i don't believe anyone is ready to kill you....i do agree with you though...as much as you all you guys know i live bernadette!!!! merman had a special charm to her...even though i am not her biggest fan i still think she did some great stuff....and doesn't need to be looked down upon!!

[Belasco07]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 10:13am

I obviously feel the same way

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 12:52pm

Any mother of Varla Jean is okay in my book.

[BillyLawlor]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 12:54pm

I don't hate her- I just think she is highly overrated as a performer. But I agree- she did make huge contributions to the world of musical theater.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 12:55pm

I hope all of you have seen her performance in "It's A Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World".

[BudFrump23]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 1:00pm

Hey, I thought she rocked on the Ethel Merman Disco Album!!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 1:07pm

And she was GREAT as guest villain Lola Lasagne on the Batman TV series.

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 1:10pm

Merman was delightful in Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.....

I believe she worked on the film not long after GYPSY closed. I loved her autobiography and find her performances on the Annie Get Your Gun cd and the GYPSY cd very exciting.

I used to enjoy her when she appeared on the talk and variety shows and she was always a special treat on the Tonight show, Carson loved her.

It was an exciting event when she became the last star of Hello Dolly on Broadway. There was much fanfare when

she took over the role and when
the show broke My Fair Lady's long run record and when
the show closed

I remember the day after the last performance, the New York Daily News had a "double trunk" centerfold spread of pictures from the final performance of Helly Dolly on Broadway.

I never saw "The Merm" live. Many years ago, my friend, the actor Peter Burnell (now deceased), told me he thought the singular greatest experience of his theatrical life was being at the CLOSING night of GYPSY with Ethel Merman. I wish I had been there for any night.

There is no question that Merman was a powerful influence in our theater. I recall her telling the story on tv that when she was about to do Annie Get Your Gun, Irving Berlin actually said to her something like,

"Miss Merman, now you let me know if there's anything you don't like about any of these songs and we will change them to make you happy."

She was astonished still and pleased and related the story with humor and great earthiness.

and ISN'T is possible that our theater would not have ROSE'S TURN, were it not for Merman?

One theater legend has it that, it was Merman who demanded a showstopping song be added at the end of the show for her as she thought her part almost did not exist or she became a supporting charachter in act two. Legend further has it that this sudden demand for a showstopping song to end act two was so "sudden" that is caused the composers...

to use primarily bits and pieces of other songs from the show...

hence the creation of ROSE'S TURN.

I love that story, but have also read and heard different versions of how Rose's Turn came to be written from Arthur Laurents and Sondheim.

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 1:19pm

...in the play LEGENDS, which starred Mary Martin and Carol Channing with Roxie Roker and Gary Beach...

the charachter played by Channing, as one point related a story about the great Merman...

saying that her backstage language was very salty and crass...so a chorus girl made a canister charging everyone a quarter each time they said a curse word....upon hearing Merman curse the chorus girl jangled the canister at Merman, and Merman put a dollar bill in the canister saying: "Here's a Dollar, Go F*ck Yourself."

[sondheimfreak]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 2:08pm

Since I am the only person on this board who has read Arthur Laurents' book "Original Story By", I am the only one who knows the true story behind Roses' Turn. Arthur says that one night Steve and Jerome Robbins were in a theatre out of town where Gypsy was playing. Steve went over to the piano and started playing little bits of all the songs from Gypsy and tying them together and adding his own stuff while Jerry acted it out. This was the creation of Rose's Turn. It had nothing to do with Merman. And, in reality, Steve wrote Rose's Turn. (That's why it's so good.)
And let me know where I can sign to join the "We Hate Ethel Merman Club."

Updated On: 8/24/03 at 02:08 PM

[BrdwyThtr]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 2:36pm

My great-grandfather knew Ethel Merman personally. He was a fireman and his job was to sit backstage at shows for security reasons. He ended up working on the majority of Ethel's shows. He used to have quite some fights with her, because she was a very heavy smoker and that wasn't allowed.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 2:44pm

"Since I am the only person on this board who has read Arthur Laurents' book 'Original Story By', I am the only one who knows the true story behind Roses' Turn." <---- Wow! Now that right there is a whole lotta presumption goin on! Do people who have heard Laurents tell the story count and are you sure you're the only person on the board who has read the book? Was your tongue planted in cheek when you wrote that sentence?

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 3:23pm

? Sondheimfreak, I too have read Arthur Laurent's book. However, different versions of how Rose's Turn came to be can be found in different books about Sondheim and Merman as well. Memories often get cloudy when working on a musical.:)

[Belasco07]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 3:58pm

Sondheim Freak--

OK--Rose's turn had nothing to do with Ethel Merman??? Boy, that's intellegent. Who do you think Styne and Sondheim were writting it for--themselves???

[Hello Gorgeous]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 4:38pm

Namo, she was very good as Lola Lasagne on Batman. Has anyone else seen her as that character besides Namo and myself?

[BudFrump23]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 4:44pm

I believe I remember her in it. I have only seen a few of the original Batman episodes, but I remember a villian who bore a striking resemblence to the Merm. What was the episode about?

[Hello Gorgeous]

Posted: 8/24/03 at 4:47pm

Well, the only one I saw was an episode about a horse race, and she was carrying a yellow umbrella. That's all I can remember about it, if anyone else knows about this episode add your comments!

[alterego]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 2:40am

I couldn't agree more with you Belasco07. I don't care who knows it....I love the Merm. A great performer from an era when talent and personality counted. A lot of todays actors would appear to 'phone in' their performances next to Ethel. A truly great individual.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 6:46am

"so a chorus girl made a canister charging everyone a quarter each time they said a curse word....upon hearing Merman curse the chorus girl jangled the canister at Merman, and Merman put a dollar bill in the canister saying: "Here's a Dollar, Go F*ck Yourself."


Great story, but Merman has nothing to do with it. The prim lady with the "curse box" was Loretta Young. The curse-er was either Walter Brennan or Alan Ladd.

[sondheimfreak]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 12:17pm

Now that I have been cut up into tiny pieces and fed to Ethel Merman's corpse, I will apologize. When I posted about the book, teacheroftheater, you said you had not read it and you were the only one that posted. And Belasco07, I simply meant that they didn't tailor the song for Merman, such as for Eder in Jekyll & Hyde or Brightman in Phantom. Now, I will bow out. Good day.

[Bwaybabie]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 2:17pm

Thank you so much for your wonderful post, Belasco07! I simply cannot understand why some people, especially younger people, do not like Merman. Her voice had not have been sweet or classically trained, but it had a power and personality that most aspiring performers can only dream of having.

I think it may be some kind of generational thing. I'm too young to have seen her in person (and I greatly envy those who did!) but I've been a huge fan ever since I discovered the OCR of Gypsy when I was 13 or so. I guess though that to modern ears weaned on less brassy sounds her voice can sound weird and unsettling. I personally can't think of anything more thrilling than Merman singing Rose's Turn though.

Long live la Merm!

Oh....And I loved the canister story, whether or not it really happened!

[Mrs B]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 2:34pm

I saw this thread and HAD to post.

Maybe today Ethel seems embarassing or loud or affected.

BUT she had a career that spanned decades- sang and FILLED Broadway houses WITHOUT a sound system other than her lungs. Do you think BP and everyone else currently on Broadway could sing the roles she did without a microphone, be heard and do 8 shows a week? I think not....

Long live the memory of Ethel Zimmerman!

BP

[sondheimfreak]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 3:06pm

"Do you think BP...could sing the roles she did without a microphone, be heard, and do 8 shows a week?"

I hope this was rhetorical. If not, I'm sure bernadette88 would like to respond, yes?

[orion59]

Posted: 8/25/03 at 3:18pm

As much as I hate to correct anyone, as a Batman enthusiast I have to poinbt out, Lola Lasgna didn't carry an umbrella, she carried a parasol. I bring this up only because she made a point of that in the two episodes she appeared in.