Theatre “diversity” — Page 2

When it comes to “diversity” or “minority,” very few people address even think about intersectionality. It’s not like all Asian Americans, for example, have the same experience and can be identified with one shared struggle. The experience is difference for a straight male Asian American compared with that of a female lesbian Asian American. Intersectionality is not like math, where one’s experience is simply 1+1=2; rather, the intersection makes the experience drastically different because of cultural norms and prejudice from groups of people who you are supposed to identify as a part of. People are diverse in many ways, and because “diversity” also implies social hierarchies that put a lot people at disadvantage in different ways, the goal should be to give everyone a fair chance instead of sticking to the shoddy notion of “diversity.” It actually reaffirms the hierarchical social structure by recognizing certain traits of the disadvantaged rather than their ability to perform just as well, if not better, as everyone else.

Updated On: 12/25/17 at 05:39 AM

I think this is an example of why statistics might be helpful...if we take those 2013 statistics then at initial face value it might suggest there WAS (in 2012 at least) good representation of Black and Asian races (but not Hispanic) as a proportion of prevalence. That said, the details matter and I would suspect things would change if we are looking at *leading roles* vs just general 'speaking characters'. The goal of people forwarding this cause I assume is to have people in great leading roles, not in the background saying one line.

Updated On: 12/25/17 at 03:49 PM

BroadwayAndSports said: "YES YES YES. Diversity has somehow come to mean "black people", but it's so much more. As someone noted, the black community actually now does very well for a minority when it comes to representation (talking about stories reflecting these communities, not specific actors). But the Hispanic community, which makes up more of America, still has very little representation outside of West Side Story and In The Heights. Same with Asians, Jews, disabled, lesbians, Middle-Eastern, old people, etc.

Too often when people say diversity, they just mean black representation. And while that's important, it's far more advanced than so many other minorities are.

The Great Comet got a ton of stans for its diversity, but what about The Band's Visit or Come From Away? They're both groups full of people from all over the spectrum and yet they don't get the credit."



Again, this problem will only be resolved when someone actually puts the effort into writing the roles that represent these communities. Black performers are used when creators of musicals want to capitalize on the music and sound of our community, and that's fine. When Lin Manuel Miranda put the effort into writing In the Heights, and bringing Latin infused music to the forefront, it paid off beautifully. Other people need to follow his example.

Have not posted here for many years but I love this discussion and really wanted to weigh in.

Directors and casting agencies can make an impact here as well. For one example, I would love to see some diversity of body type represented amongst all of the other diversity that we need. This goes for Hollywood and New York-based theatre. When I was in NY, I was told I had a lot of talent but I was "too fat for any of the roles you're good for." I was a size six at the time. Give me a break. Granted, I have seen this start to SLOWLY get better but not at the speed it should be happening.

And how about some more trans people while we're at it?? I want to get to the point where it's not big news that a trans actor is cast in something. It should just be something we're doing now.

This happens at every level in the theatre, from the Great White Way to small companies across the country. In the nonprofit world, funders are less focused on diversity onstage, but are putting increased pressure on theatre organizations to be more diverse in attracting audiences. Inevitably that ends up meaning "Make your show free and we'll fund it" (which operates on a deficit mindset that people of color, non-cis individuals, etc. are all poor and put no value in what they pay for). There's a very limited explanation of what constitutes diversity-they use it as a way to make themselves feel like they're doing the right thing. The reality is nonprofits need support for addressing the issue in a multitude of ways.

Getting out there and finding people that look like our world is hard, but we have to do it. Thanks for starting this thread.

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 02:01 AM

Contrary opinions from an "Uncle Tom*":

I am a Black performer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress".

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire

For every 10 people complaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

"Diversity" in this sense usually just means a bunch of people who look different yet think alike, and espouse the same tired views over and over again.

Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

Have at thee.

*Uncle Tom is a racist slur, now ironically applied primarily to ethnic minorities that have the audacity to think for themselves and reject the idea that they are oppressed.

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 11:36 AM

AlfredDrakeII said: "Contrary opinions from an "Uncle Tom*":

I am a Blackperformer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress".

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire

For every 10 peoplecomplaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

"Diversity" in this sense usuallyjust means a bunch of people who look different yetthink alike, and espouse the same tired views over and over again.

Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

Have at thee.

*Uncle Tom is a racist slur, now ironically applied primarily to ethnic minorities that have the audacity to think for themselves and reject the idea that they are oppressed."

Alfred-I, for one, really appreciate your perspective on #diversityhire. I have seen many companies cast in ways that I feel "tokenize" minorities and have become very sensitive to that both as an audience member and an artist. Companies large and small feel they have to check off their "diversity box" and I find it very problematic because it's out of obligation, not equality.

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 03:41 PM

"I am a Black performer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

Well, if you continue to be able to get work and are not getting turned down for roles because of your skin color than it seems like you are not being discriminated against. I think you are being rewarded for your individual talent and hard work. Did I get something wrong?

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress".

Just curious how you know the people in charge hired you so they feel better about themselves. If you were not talented wouldn't they look dumb for hiring you? I know nothing about actors trying to get a job but I would think your years of classical training and working with the best look very good on your resume and help you get opportunity to audition and then possibly the role.

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire.

My advice would be to try and ignore those feelings and just go out and do the best job possible with the opportunities you were given.

For every 10 people complaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

Good point. If you go through life expecting people to give you things you are probably going to be very disappointed. I agree there is always room for good work and your examples of two people making it happen are excellent.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial "and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

I dislike the group mentality that you mention and it would be nice for people to understand we are all individuals and bring different things to the table.


Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

I don't know you but from this post I don't see you as a victim. I am a white man in my 60's and it seems to me you are a pretty together person. I hope you continue on in the industry because you are quite talented. You don't get into elite institution (Julliard ?) and work with the best without being gifted and a hard worker.

kclahar said: "Again, this problem will only be resolved when someone actually puts the effort into writing the roles that represent these communities. Black performers are used when creators of musicals want to capitalize on the music and sound of our community, and that's fine. When Lin Manuel Miranda put the effort into writing In the Heights, and bringing Latin infused music to the forefront, it paid off beautifully. Other people need to follow his example."

I disagree with this. From an acting perspective I think the point is less about writing pieces for specific communities, and more about, as someone said earlier in this thread, not automatically picturing a non-ethnically-specific role as white. Like, there's no reason at all that we can't have a black Cassie, or Asian Harold Hill, or Hispanic Evan Hansen, and more directors should keep their minds open in that regard. I think we've come a long way in this, and that should be applauded.

Writing pieces specifically about underrepresented communities is definitely still important from a playwriting perspective, and making sure those stories are told, but I'm not sure that more all-black or all-Hispanic productions are the solution to racially diversifying Broadway. To me, that just makes things more divisive and almost gives it a sense of "our shows vs your shows" which is not a solution at all. Incidentally, as a thought experiment I've been trying to think of a show where the subject matter would specifically call for an all-white cast, and I can't think of one. I think that's a good thing... I can't imagine such a show being met with anything but hatred and controversy. (The closest I could come up with is Frozen, which is so specifically Norwegian, and the leading man is being played by a black actor. So go figure.)

Yes- large people need representation- but do we really want to see unhealthy body types normalized in this country. Let's face it- all kinds of health crises are in store for those whose body size reaches obese and more levels. I do not want to see this body type normalized- it is bad for the country- bad for our health care system- bad for the individual- I can see no benefits from having a super-sized body. I see little children- maybe four years old or younger- who are on their way to obesity. I am sorry- this is not a good sign- and may be one of the factors that is responsible for the health care crisis in the country- along with the polluted food and polluted air.

Updated On: 1/24/18 at 08:47 AM

I don't think it's a good idea to casually dismiss the "BUT HEALTH" response. Far too many Americans are complacent with astonishingly poor eating/exercise habits. "Accepting" that "choice" is akin to accepting someone's choice to put a spoonful of arsenic in their daily morning coffee. Personally, I have no problem with anyone's "choice" to abbreviate their own life; but I, too, would regret seeing that become the standard (although it may have already).

The AMA officially recognized obesity as a disease 5 years ago. Obesity is defined as a BMI of 30 or higher.

The CDC has provided this guide to determining BMI: https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html

You'll notice that a person with a height of 5'9" and a weight of 203 is defined as obese here; the kind of person many Americans would dismiss as merely "overweight."

Just as an FYI.