Theatre “diversity”- Page 2

[passing strange]

Posted: 12/24/17 at 7:46pm

GeorgeandDot said: "Diversity is not a black and white issue. In fact, African American performers seem to have better representation than any other minority group. It seems that the only shows with Asian representation are Miss Saigon and The King and I and for Latin performers, West Side Story and In the Heights. That's definitely a problem. Also, yeah I loved seeing the recent Spring Awakening revival, which gave a wonderful opportunity to disabled performers who typically have an extremely hard time finding a place in the acting world. It's also nice to see genderqueer representation in Once on this Island. On the topic of gay people being well represented in the theatre community, gay MEN are, but gay women are still extremely underrepresented in both Broadway and Hollywood."

African American performers got a foot in the door in musical theatre, mainly because our community has a very unique and rich music history.  From jazz, to gospel, to the blues, to R&B, to hip-hop, and more, there is a lot of American music that has roots in the black community.  When the industry wanted to capitalize on that, it was common sense to hire black performers.  You are right that Latino and Asian roles are far too few.  For that reason, creative minds like Lin Manuel Miranda should be applauded for putting pen to paper, and writing the roles that they so desperately need.  

[Dancingthrulife2]

Posted: 12/25/17 at 5:39am

When it comes to “diversity” or “minority,” very few people address even think about intersectionality. It’s not like all Asian Americans, for example, have the same experience and can be identified with one shared struggle. The experience is difference for a straight male Asian American compared with that of a female lesbian Asian American. Intersectionality is not like math, where one’s experience is simply 1+1=2; rather, the intersection makes the experience drastically different because of cultural norms and prejudice from groups of people who you are supposed to identify as a part of. People are diverse in many ways, and because “diversity” also implies social hierarchies that put a lot people at disadvantage in different ways, the goal should be to give everyone a fair chance instead of sticking to the shoddy notion of “diversity.” It actually reaffirms the hierarchical social structure by recognizing certain traits of the disadvantaged rather than their ability to perform just as well, if not better, as everyone else.

Updated On: 12/25/17 at 05:39 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 12/25/17 at 12:51pm

GavestonPS said: "I asked this on another thread, so perhaps I'll find it has been
answered. But does anyone have any empirical data on
diversity among Broadway performers?"

12/5/2013: article RE: numbers in cinema (TheDisolve.com)

“Across 100 top-grossing films of 2012, only 10.8 percent of speaking characters are Black, 4.2 percent are Hispanic, 5 percent are Asian, and 3.6 percent are from other (or mixed race) ethnicities”

2015-2016 Season: article RE: makeup of Broadway audiences (The Broadway League)

    •    Sixty-seven percent of the audiences were female.
    •    The average age of the Broadway theatregoer was almost 44 years.
    •    Seventy-seven percent of all tickets were purchased by Caucasian theatregoers.
    •    Of theatregoers over 25 years old, 80% had completed college and 40% had earned a graduate degree.

4/4/2016: "The Tonys Are Just As White as the Oscars" (Forbes magazine)

"Since the awards began - 1929 for the Oscars, 1947 for the Tonys - over 95% of all nominees have been white, with the Tonys recognizing more people of color by 1%. The big difference is in the ratios: The Tonys recognize twice as many black artists, but the Oscars recognize three times as many Asians and Latinos."

7/1/2016: Diversity on Broadway: is ‘Hamilton’ the exception? (Dartmouth Library)

"In a city where two-thirds of residents are non-white, only 30 per cent of theatrical roles went to actors of colour during the 2014-15 theatrical season, according to research carried out by the Asian-American Performers Action Coalition (Aapac), which also concludes that this reflects a 'definite upward trend'."

I'm sure more info can be found of y'all want to look. My google keywords were: "statistics minorities on broadway" (without the quotes)

Updated On: 12/25/17 at 12:51 PM

[binau]

Posted: 12/25/17 at 3:49pm

I think this is an example of why statistics might be helpful...if we take those 2013 statistics then at initial face value it might suggest there WAS (in 2012 at least) good representation of Black and Asian races (but not Hispanic) as a proportion of prevalence. That said, the details matter and I would suspect things would change if we are looking at *leading roles* vs just general 'speaking characters'. The goal of people forwarding this cause I assume is to have people in great leading roles, not in the background saying one line.

Updated On: 12/25/17 at 03:49 PM

[BroadwayAndSports]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 4:16pm

YES YES YES. Diversity has somehow come to mean "black people", but it's so much more. As someone noted, the black community actually now does very well for a minority when it comes to representation (talking about stories reflecting these communities, not specific actors). But the Hispanic community, which makes up more of America, still has very little representation outside of West Side Story and In The Heights. Same with Asians, Jews, disabled, lesbians, Middle-Eastern, old people, etc.

Too often when people say diversity, they just mean black representation. And while that's important, it's far more advanced than so many other minorities are. 

The Great Comet got a ton of stans for its diversity, but what about The Band's Visit or Come From Away? They're both groups full of people from all over the spectrum and yet they don't get the credit. 

[passing strange]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 6:19pm

BroadwayAndSports said: "YES YES YES. Diversity has somehow come to mean "black people", but it's so much more. As someone noted, the black community actually now does very well for a minority when it comes to representation (talking about stories reflecting these communities, not specific actors). But the Hispanic community, which makes up more of America, still has very little representation outside of West Side Story and In The Heights. Same with Asians, Jews, disabled, lesbians, Middle-Eastern, old people, etc.

Too often when people say diversity, they just mean black representation. And while that's important, it's far more advanced than so many other minorities are.

The Great Comet got a ton of stans for its diversity, but what about The Band's Visit or Come From Away? They're both groups full of people from all over the spectrum and yet they don't get the credit."

 

Again, this problem will only be resolved when someone actually puts the effort into writing the roles that represent these communities.  Black performers are used when creators of musicals want to capitalize on the music and sound of our community, and that's fine.  When Lin Manuel Miranda put the effort into writing In the Heights, and bringing Latin infused music to the forefront, it paid off beautifully.  Other people need to follow his example.

 

[binau]

Posted: 12/26/17 at 6:37pm

"The Great Showman" Circus is a great example of what I would expect if someone uses the word "Diversity", as opposed to the more specific "Racial Diversity". 

[PerforMeg]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 2:01am

Have not posted here for many years but I love this discussion and really wanted to weigh in.

Directors and casting agencies can make an impact here as well.  For one example, I would love to see some diversity of body type represented amongst all of the other diversity that we need.  This goes for Hollywood and New York-based theatre.  When I was in NY, I was told I had a lot of talent but I was "too fat for any of the roles you're good for."  I was a size six at the time.  Give me a break.  Granted, I have seen this start to SLOWLY get better but not at the speed it should be happening. 

And how about some more trans people while we're at it?? I want to get to the point where it's not big news that a trans actor is cast in something.  It should just be something we're doing now.  

This happens at every level in the theatre, from the Great White Way to small companies across the country.  In the nonprofit world, funders are less focused on diversity onstage, but are putting increased pressure on theatre organizations to be more diverse in attracting audiences. Inevitably that ends up meaning "Make your show free and we'll fund it" (which operates on a deficit mindset that people of color, non-cis individuals, etc. are all poor and put no value in what they pay for). There's a very limited explanation of what constitutes diversity-they use it as a way to make themselves feel like they're doing the right thing.  The reality is nonprofits need support for addressing the issue in a multitude of ways.

Getting out there and finding people that look like our world is hard, but we have to do it.  Thanks for starting this thread.

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 02:01 AM

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 10:03am

 •    Sixty-seven percent of the audiences were female. - As a guy who has loved theater since he was a teenager, this statistic is disappointing. I wish more men would give theater a chance. BTW - My first date with my wife I took her to the show "Song And Dance"


    •    The average age of the Broadway theatregoer was almost 44 years. - I am curious if the average age has dropped over the last few years due to shows like Hamilton, Disney shows and now SpongeBob.


    •    Seventy-seven percent of all tickets were purchased by Caucasian theatregoers. - Is this due to the diversity of shows or are there other factors.


    •    Of theatregoers over 25 years old, 80% had completed college and 40% had earned a graduate degree. - Not sure what to make of this because I don't think you need to be college grad to enjoy Broadway. I will assume it may be more economic thing since college grads usually make more money and can afford the high ticket prices.

 

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 10:03 AM

[AlfredDrakeII]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 11:36am

Contrary opinions from an "Uncle Tom*":

I am a Black performer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress". 

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire

For every 10 people complaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

"Diversity" in this sense usually just means a bunch of people who look different yet think alike, and espouse the same tired views over and over again. 

Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

Have at thee.

*Uncle Tom is a racist slur, now ironically applied primarily to ethnic minorities that have the audacity to think for themselves and reject the idea that they are oppressed.

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 11:36 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 12:09pm

GeorgeandDot wrote "Fun Home was the first time that the lead role in a Broadway musical was a lesbian and that didn't happen until 2015."

What, then, were Raffaela in Grand Hotel (1989), Charlotte and Cordelia in Falsettos (1992), Maureen and Joanne in Rent (1996), Shug and Celie in The Color Purple (2005), and Kate and Anne in If/Then (2014)? (Acknowledging that most of these shows, including Fun Home, are ensemble pieces, not star vehicles.)

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 12:09 PM

[PerforMeg]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 3:41pm

AlfredDrakeII said: "Contrary opinions from an "Uncle Tom*":

I am a Blackperformer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress".

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire

For every 10 peoplecomplaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

"Diversity" in this sense usuallyjust means a bunch of people who look different yetthink alike, and espouse the same tired views over and over again.

Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

Have at thee.

*Uncle Tom is a racist slur, now ironically applied primarily to ethnic minorities that have the audacity to think for themselves and reject the idea that they are oppressed."

Alfred-I, for one, really appreciate your perspective on #diversityhire.  I have seen many companies cast in ways that I feel "tokenize" minorities and have become very sensitive to that both as an audience member and an artist.  Companies large and small feel they have to check off their "diversity box" and I find it very problematic because it's out of obligation, not equality. 

Updated On: 12/28/17 at 03:41 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 9:49pm

For purposes of discussion, I assume
AlfredDrakeII is as well-trained and
experienced as he claims to be. (I say
this not because I doubt him; I just
don't know him.)

That said, I figure for every role he
gets because a while liberal feels
guilty, he loses five roles because 
directors can't imagine him in modern
roles unless the roles are specifically
identified as "black" in the script.

I hope he'll give himself a break.

[yankeefan7]

Posted: 12/28/17 at 10:02pm

"I am a Black performer. There has never been a better time to be one, yet I am still supposed to believe that I am being discriminated against for some reason.

Well, if you continue to be able to get work and are not getting turned down for roles because of your skin color than it seems like you are not being discriminated against. I think you are being rewarded for your individual talent and hard work. Did I get something wrong?  

I understand now that all my years of classical training (at an elite institution), and my years working with the best of the best both here and regionally mean nothing--it's more important that I'm Black so that those in charge can feel better about themselves for "making progress". 

Just curious how you know the people in charge hired you so they feel better about themselves. If you were not talented wouldn't they look dumb for hiring you? I know nothing about actors trying to get a job but I would think your years of classical training and working with the best look very good on your resume and help you get opportunity to audition and then possibly the role.

Related to that, now and for the rest of my career I will question if I was hired for a job because of my skills and suitability for a role, or because a Token was needed. #DiversityHire.

My advice would be to try and ignore those feelings and just go out and do the best job possible with the opportunities you were given. 

For every 10 people complaining that white people won't give them anything, there is someone like a Lin-Manuel Miranda or an Issa Rae or whoever who is actually DOING something. It's almost like maybe it's foolish to expect other people to just give you things because you want them. Maybe you should spend the energy you'd otherwise spend complaining on building something that people want to see. There's ALWAYS room for good work.

Good point. If you go through life expecting people to give you things you are probably going to be very disappointed. I agree there is always room for good work and your examples of two people making it happen are excellent.

I resent that the people who complain the loudest about stereotyping never hesitate to tell me "well at least with you, there's a Black presence, so it's a positive representation". What they're really saying is that they think all Black people are the same, so that having one (or a handful) means the bases are fully covered. This same logic applies to race, gender, and sex, and yet nobody seems to get how prejudicial "and even RACIST this line of thinking is.

I dislike the group mentality that you mention and it would be nice for people to understand we are all individuals and bring different things to the table.


Much of this may seem harsh and callous, but if this were only a few years ago I probably would have held the same opinions as many in this thread. I can't anymore. I'm tired of this crap. I don't even know how much longer I'll be in this industry, to be honest, because my insistence on self-actualization has alienated me from my colleagues who either see me as a victim (if they're white), or don't understand how I DON'T see myself as a victim (if they're not). That is a substantial portion of the people I meet.

I don't know you but from this post I don't see you as a victim. I am a white man in my 60's and it seems to me you are a pretty together person. I hope you continue on in the industry because you are quite talented. You don't get into elite institution (Julliard ?) and work with the best without being gifted and a hard worker.


 

[binau]

Posted: 1/23/18 at 11:43am

Annoyingly BWW are pandering to this misuse of the word with the headline, but this is a perfect quote from Chita and it is what we should always aim for:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Broadway-Legend-Chita-Rivera-Weighs-In-on-Diversity-HAMILTON-and-Gifted-Lin-Manuel-Miranda-20180123

"I have played all different nationalities, and I deeply believe that the play is the thing," she says. "The person who does that role better than anyone else is the person who should get that role, regardless of their background or heritage. It's the person who does the part the way that the librettist wants it done." 

This should be the number 1 goal I think of any diversity program, whether in theatre or in the workplace. Ensuring people are treated as individuals and helping make sure the best person is selected for the role or job, regardless of what group or identity they might belong to.

 

Updated On: 1/23/18 at 11:43 AM

[JudyDenmark]

Posted: 1/23/18 at 12:25pm

kclahar said: "Again, this problem will only be resolved when someone actually puts the effort into writing the roles that represent these communities. Black performers are used when creators of musicals want to capitalize on the music and sound of our community, and that's fine. When Lin Manuel Miranda put the effort into writing In the Heights, and bringing Latin infused music to the forefront, it paid off beautifully. Other people need to follow his example."

I disagree with this. From an acting perspective I think the point is less about writing pieces for specific communities, and more about, as someone said earlier in this thread, not automatically picturing a non-ethnically-specific role as white. Like, there's no reason at all that we can't have a black Cassie, or Asian Harold Hill, or Hispanic Evan Hansen, and more directors should keep their minds open in that regard. I think we've come a long way in this, and that should be applauded. 

Writing pieces specifically about underrepresented communities is definitely still important from a playwriting perspective, and making sure those stories are told, but I'm not sure that more all-black or all-Hispanic productions are the solution to racially diversifying Broadway. To me, that just makes things more divisive and almost gives it a sense of "our shows vs your shows" which is not a solution at all. Incidentally, as a thought experiment I've been trying to think of a show where the subject matter would specifically call for an all-white cast, and I can't think of one. I think that's a good thing... I can't imagine such a show being met with anything but hatred and controversy. (The closest I could come up with is Frozen, which is so specifically Norwegian, and the leading man is being played by a black actor. So go figure.)

[binau]

Posted: 1/23/18 at 12:38pm

I remember seeing Alice Ripley's understudy (Pearl Sun) in next to normal. It was just a wonderful vocal performance (far stronger than Ripley at this point in the tour) and was great to see an Asian woman playing a character that I would likely interact with or see in real life. I want much more of this than seeing Asian people (for example) shoeboxed into revivals of The King and I or the occasional Pacific Overtures. I agree this is a preferred vision than people writing roles specifically for certain races.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 1/23/18 at 3:07pm

Many Asian performers and audience members would agree, qolbinau. No reason why any character in a show like Dear Evan Hansen can’t be played by an Asian actor.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 6:19am

Quoting JudyDenmark: " From an acting perspective I think the point is less about writing pieces for specific communities, and more about, as someone said earlier in this thread, not automatically picturing a non-ethnically-specific role as white."

Agreed, and i would add that i feel the same frustration that most roles that do not mention anything about body type are automatically cast/associated with thin people, especially for romantic leads.  Shows with large people as a leading role (i can only think of hairspray and the Genie in Aladdin" have specific references to the character's size (Tracy) and/or eating jokes (Genie).  I would love to see someone do for large people what Lin did for POC in the casting rules - write a show that is not about body size or food, and then specify that a large person is to be cast in the lead.  

[BWAY Baby2]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 8:47am

Yes- large people need representation- but do we really want to see unhealthy body types normalized in this country. Let's face it- all kinds of health crises are in store for those whose body size reaches obese and more levels. I do not want to see this body type normalized- it is bad for the country- bad for our health care system- bad for the individual- I can see no benefits from having a super-sized body. I see little children- maybe four years old or younger- who are on their way to obesity. I am sorry- this is not a good sign- and may be one of the factors that is responsible for the health care crisis in the country- along with the polluted food and polluted air.

Updated On: 1/24/18 at 08:47 AM

[j.garcia]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 9:50am

Every time someone brings up body diversity, someone has to come in with the "BUT HEALTH?!?" argument that's frankly so old and tired. I'm not expecting to suddenly see morbid obesity become accepted, but I would love seeing a woman above a size 6 as the lead.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 10:00am

I don't think it's a good idea to casually dismiss the "BUT HEALTH" response. Far too many Americans are complacent with astonishingly poor eating/exercise habits. "Accepting" that "choice" is akin to accepting someone's choice to put a spoonful of arsenic in their daily morning coffee. Personally, I have no problem with anyone's "choice" to abbreviate their own life; but I, too, would regret seeing that become the standard (although it may have already).

[j.garcia]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 10:10am

If the person can perform to the rigorous standard of a Broadway show without suffering major health problems, then they should be considered. By this standard, this would eliminate a large portion of heavier people and therefore, not promote their lifestyle and body size as ideal. The "problem" takes care of itself in that regard.

What I hope in terms of normalization of different body types is that we can display a variety of healthy body types. One's weight is an obvious health factor, but there are plenty of unhealthy skinny people and plenty of healthy overweight people. Weight is not always a direct correlation to health, and that is the idea that needs to change.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 10:21am

The AMA officially recognized obesity as a disease 5 years ago. Obesity is defined as a BMI of 30 or higher.

The CDC has provided this guide to determining BMI: https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/adult/defining.html

You'll notice that a person with a height of 5'9" and a weight of 203 is defined as obese here; the kind of person many Americans would dismiss as merely "overweight."

Just as an FYI.

[j.garcia]

Posted: 1/24/18 at 11:03am

If they can perform without breathing issues, sweating profusely, or harming themselves I don't see a reason why they shouldn't be considered for a role. The definition of obesity means nothing here. BMI is one tool used to determine health, but its not the only factor that determines one's overall health.

I'm not advocating for every role to be filled with BMI "obese" people. But if a role has no specific notes attached, then the default should not be a tall, thin, white, straight actor. We need to open our eyes to our own internal biases and move past them, instead of automatically dismissing people for height/weight/race/gender/sexuality.