Tim Minchin on why Groundhog Day Failed in New York- Page 2

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 5:45pm

I still haven't seen the show, but I've definitely heard enough raves about it that I now want to.  But I remember that season I was living on the West Coast so I couldn't really see the shows and decided to listen to all the cast albums for the Tony nominated Best Musicals.  I had originally kind of written off Groundhog Day as another movie cash grab so I already wasn't taking it as seriously, and the score wasn't quite as accessible to listen to as the other three shows.  That's not to say it's bad as a theater score, but divorced from the stage, I just didn't find anything in the music to really hook into.  And that's only my point of view, but I could imagine other people possibly doing the same thing and I'd understand why it never really caught on.

[blaxx]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 5:47pm

muscle23ftl said: "I think the Great Comet and Groundhog Day are the 2 worst shows I have seen on Broadway in my entire life."

And you also thought BKLYN and Wonderland were amazing, and gave Hamilton one star, so...

[Skip23]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 6:40pm

Groundhog Day barely registered for me.  Much too much work to deal with the format.  And the music didn't work for a musical.  

 

I was so bummed the COMET didn't work on Broadway.  It was enchanting at the Ars Nova.

 

BKLYN - where is Kevin Anderson?  

 

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 12:15am

I was curious if Tim Minchin is correct that Broadway can only sustain two new hit musicals at once, so I did some quick research using recouping as a proxy for being a hit. During the last 10 years, he's probably directionally right but there's not enough data transparency to know how many shows you're not personally involved in turn a profit. 

For example, Disney doesn't announce if their shows recoup. Surely Aladdin recouped but did Frozen after 825 performances? No clue. Also, should a show like Something Rotten! be considered a hit? They didn't recoup on Broadway, but came close enough that the lead producer said they likely would after going on tour. 

Anyway, it is possible to have three new hit musicals on Broadway per calendar year (I didn't look per season), but that's probably it. 

New Broadway Musicals That Recouped In the Last 10 Years  

2022: MJ 

2021: Six 

2019: Moulin Rouge!, Hadestown,  Freestyle Love Supreme

2018: Mean GIrls, Ain’t Too Proud

2017: The Band’s Visit, Come From Away

2016: Dear Evan Hansen, Waitress

2015: Hamilton, School of Rock, Fun Home

2014: Beautiful: The Carole King Musical, Aladdin (probably)

2013: A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder, Kinky Boots, Matilda the Musical

Where the competition is more a zero sum game, is the Tonys. Winning a Best Musical Tony would have really helped Groundhog Day financially and it came out in a season where all 4 nominated shows were good enough to win. That's not normally the case. 

[Up In One]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 12:22am

Love me some Tim Minchin lyrics, he overwrites. deliciously. I bet Matilda might win in a lyric word count duel with Hamilton. Ground Hog Day wasn't a good match for him, it came off as an American show seen through a Brits take on Americans. And then there was the concept, the repeating of the day. He mentions in the article that the show was a traditional musical. That may have been the real issue, he thought he was writing a traditional (basic?)  musical when it should have all been high concept right down to the lyrics and book. It should have gone beyond the film and found its own identity. I found it didn't hold my interest. There were fans of the film around me eating it up, I really don't like paint by number musical conversions. I had not seen the film and still found it all pretty predictable and at times low brow. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:35am

Jonathan Cohen said: "I was curious if Tim Minchin is correct that Broadway can only sustain two new hit musicals at once, so I did some quick research using recouping as a proxy for being a hit. During the last 10 years, he's probably directionally right but there's not enough data transparency to know how many shows you're not personally involved in turn a profit.

For example, Disney doesn't announce if their shows recoup. SurelyAladdin recouped but did Frozen after825 performances? No clue. Also,should a show like Something Rotten! be considered a hit? They didn't recoup on Broadway, but came close enough that the lead producer said they likely would after going on tour.

Anyway, it is possible to have three new hit musicals on Broadway per calendar year (I didn't look per season), but that's probably it.

New Broadway Musicals That Recouped In the Last 10 Years

2022: MJ

2021: Six

2019:Moulin Rouge!, Hadestown, Freestyle Love Supreme

2018:Mean GIrls, Ain’t Too Proud

2017:The Band’s Visit, Come From Away

2016:Dear Evan Hansen, Waitress

2015:Hamilton, School of Rock, Fun Home

2014:Beautiful: The Carole King Musical, Aladdin (probably)

2013:A Gentleman's Guide to Love and Murder, Kinky Boots, Matilda the Musical

Where the competition is more a zero sum game, is the Tonys. Winning a Best Musical Tony would have really helpedGroundhog Day financially and it came out in a season where all 4 nominated shows were good enough to win. That's not normally the case."

I think your years are a bit off as Hamilton and Waitress were technically in the same season. Same with Come From Away and Dear Evan Hansen. 

To my knowledge, 2006 was a big year with Light in the Piazza, Spamalot, and Spelling Bee all being hits.

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 10:29am

RippedMan said: "I think your years are a bit off as Hamilton and Waitress were technically in the same season. Same with Come From Away and Dear Evan Hansen.

To my knowledge, 2006 was a big year with Light in the Piazza, Spamalot, and Spelling Bee all being hits."

Right, I was intentionally going for calendar year, so like Hamilton opened August 2015 and Waitress opened April 2016. I looked at that criteria instead of the official season for a couple of reasons. 1st of all, it's slightly easier to look up. But also, I think the official season is a fairly meaningless distinction to the general ticket buying audience. 

Strategically, season matters in terms of winning Tonys which can help sales. But other than that, I don't think the general public is keeping that close tabs on what season we're in when deciding to go to a show. For example, I see nearly everything on Broadway, and have only a vague sense of when the official season ends. I can't tell you without looking it up, if it's the same date every year, or changes. 

Anyway, I'm not 100% sure all these shows recouped but check out what came out on Broadway in 2005 from a calendar year perspective:

January 2005: Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (626 performances)

March 2005: Spamalot (1,575 performances) 

April 2005: The Light in the Piazza (504 performances), The 25th Annual Putnam County Spelling Bee (1,136 performances) 

November 2005: Jersey Boys (4,642 performances) 

December 2005: The Color Purple (910 performances)

Updated On: 1/8/24 at 10:29 AM

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 10:30am

muscle23ftl said: "I think the Great Comet and Groundhog Day are the 2 worst shows I have seen on Broadway in my entire life."

I just don't get the Great Comet hype. There were some songs I liked, but otherwise- snooooozefest 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 10:34am

For me it was the staging. It was very exciting and interesting in the tent, and i liked what they did for Broadway.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 10:48am

There are a lot of ways you can try to explain it, but some shows just don't manage to strike a chord in their first Broadway incarnation, but ultimately become more appreciated and have a long afterlife. Groundhog Day seems to be falling into that category, which Tim Minchin should count as a win!  It'll get its due on Broadway one day I'm sure.  

I've never seen it, but I love 2/3 of the score.  The second act is surprisingly overloaded with bland ballads that really drag down the rest of the snappy material. I still can't believe they performed Seeing You on the Tony Awards.  What a snooze.

[Jarethan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 2:10pm

I saw it once and was bored.  I purchased the cast recording and really could not get into it. 

The thing I am not clear about, however, is how big a hit was it even in London.  I know that it was revived last summer for a limited engagement, but I don't seem to remember that it had a long run in a city where long runs have been common 'forever.'  

Is it possible that this is essentially a niche show, and you either love it to death or don't get it?  I just remember wanting it to end.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 2:33pm

It also never had a proper West End, right? Like a commercial run.

[bear88]

Posted: 1/9/24 at 5:24am

I'm probably a good example of the dynamic Minchin discusses.

In 2017, we almost saw Groundhog Day in its final days of previews because it was a Monday and I had heard reasonably good things about it even though I suspected Stephen Sondheim was right that the film couldn't be topped. But my family couldn't get three seats together and we saw Phantom of the Opera for a second time instead. Seeing film adaptations is rarely a big priority for me, especially when I know the movie, and the other shows we saw on the trip - with tickets bought in advance - were Great Comet (which I loved) and Dear Evan Hansen (the hot show of the season along with Hello, Dolly).

I finally saw a regional production of Groundhog Day in San Francisco and enjoyed it. 

It was a tough season. Maybe the show would have failed anyway, but the combination of Dolly, Comet, DEH, the sleeper success of Come From Away and several strong plays made the spring of 2017 a difficult year to break through. 

[Lot666]

Posted: 1/9/24 at 8:47am

I never saw the movie, but saw the musical three times and absolutely loved everything about it (the insufferable confines of the August Wilson mezzanine notwithstanding). Based on Groundhog Day and Matilda (which I also loved), I'd roll the dice on anything Tim Minchin writes. Genius.

Updated On: 1/9/24 at 08:47 AM

[MrsSallyAdams]

Posted: 1/9/24 at 9:08am

I recall the film being a laugh riot but I found the musical depressing. It's the same plot but it really dials down on the grim aspects of the story. The second act got bogged down in mournful ballads.

Andy Karl is a capable actor but he was also too leading man handsome to find the humor in the character's misogyny. I just didn't take Bill Murray's awful behavior as seriously as I did Karls. I wasn't able to root for him like I was the more vulnerable Evan Hansen that season.

[The Other One]

Posted: 1/9/24 at 11:57am

The score added nothing at all to the already complete story.  The book told the story as well as the film, perhaps even better, but the songs, particularly and most damagingly the lead character's songs, had no impact. I did think Karl was great, though, and I'm glad I saw the show.