Top Ten Greatest Composers of Musical Theater- Page 3

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 10:10am

In no particular order

1. Stephen Sondheim
2. Cole Porter
3. Richard Rodgers
4. Leonard Bernstein
5. Jule Styne
6. Frank Loesser
7. Jerome Kern
8. George Gershwin
9. Jerry Herman
10. John Kander

Updated On: 1/26/11 at 10:10 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 10:16am

An honest question here - why do we slavishly adhere to this arbitrary number "10?"

Why not Top 15, or 28, or 20?

I couldn't post a Top 10, seriously. There are too many theatre composers who belong in the "top" for me to eliminate any one of them.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 10:44am

"Second, to your remark, 'Stephen Sondheim. I mean, come on,' I say, you come on. Not every likes or thinks highly of his work. Learn to accept that and live with it."

Of course not. But judging from the responses, many, many people do. So you'll need to learn to accept that and soldier on as best you can, too.

Why so much anger over this thread? It's not as though those who don't "make the cut" will cease to be performed. It's an opportunity for folks to share their opinions and passions.

Newintown, I'm sure that if you picked 15, 20, or even 28, no one will send the storm troopers to your home.
Updated On: 1/26/11 at 10:44 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 11:00am

"She's in the attic!"

[Paul W. Thompson]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 11:04am

Thanks, Reginald. And, you know what? I'm excited by the number of responses this morning!

While modeling this idea on Anthony Tommasini's NYT article, I'm thinking that we have to credit David Letterman for popularizing the Top Ten idea. When I was growing up, Top Twenty was the way to go! I think that came from NCAA sports rankings. Everybody wanted to be in the Top Twenty.

But you know, form follows function. Or to put it another way, rules follow reality. To that end.....

Is it just me, or are we seeing the same names (pretty much) from most responders here? I wish I had the time today to make a big chart and compile the "votes." I bet we wouldn't end up with ten, either. We would end up with probably three select "tiers" or composers, an essential core, a starry cohort and a remarkable company of composers. I don't know how many there would be in each group, but it sounds intriguing!

Who wants to compile this "consensus core, cohort and company?" No minimum number required, just consensus.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 11:05am

Well then, OK - here's my pantheon of sorts, in a flexible order, following a simple rule that the composer has at least two produced theatre scores that I admire (I love Burt Bacharach, but I don't think Lost Horizons counts as a second score):
Stephen Sondheim
Maury Yeston
William Finn
Jule Styne
Cy Coleman
Kurt Weill
Leonard Bernstein
John Kander
Cole Porter
Larry Grossman
Jerry Bock
Charles Strouse
George Gershwin
Jerry Herman
Stephen Schwartz
David Shire
Frederick Loewe
Noel Coward
Mitch Leigh
Burton Lane
Frank Loesser
Bob Merrill
Meredith Willson
Harold Arlen
Jerome Kern
Harold Rome
Leslie Bricusse

[Pippin]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 11:40am

But see, that is the point of limiting the number when it comes to greatness. Otherwise, you're just naming composers you generally like.

if everyone is great, no one is.

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 11:59am

Going by the category "composer," I'm assume you mean the person responsible for writing the music. In no particular order (and I'm afraid I can't limit myself to ten), here's my list:

1. Rodgers of Rodgers and Hart;
2. Rodgers of Rodgers and Hammerstein;
3. George Gershwin;
4. Cole Porter;
5. Leonard Bernstein;
6. Irving Berlin;
7. George M. Cohan;
8. Jerome Kern
9. Sigmund Romberg;
10. Kurt Weill;
11. Frank Loesser;
12. Frederick Loewe;
13. Jerry Herman;
14. Stephen Sondheim;
15. John Kander; and
16. Jerry Bock.

I limited my selection to American composers -- or, at least composers who made a significant mark in American musicals (e.g., yes, I know that Weill had a major career in Germany before coming to America -- but he had success in the US by writing in a different vein). I deliberately omitted Lloyd Webber and Schonberg, not because they didn't have major box office successes in this country, but because, IN MY OPINION, their work is second rate (okay, go ahead an shoot).

[Amalia Balash]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 12:09pm

I'm also going to try sticking with "composer" meaning the person writing the music:

1. George Gershwin
2. Frank Loesser
3. Richard Rodgers
4. Stephen Sondheim
5. Cole Porter
6. Jerry Bock
7. Jerome Kern
8. Jule Styne
9. Irving Berlin
10.Frederick Loewe

[jasonf]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 12:12pm

I agree with Pippin - the whole point of limiting it is to say THESE ARE THE BEST. It doesn't mean others aren't quality. It just means these are the ones we consider the top of the top. Is it easy? Hell no, but what's the point if it is?

That said, I can't understand how objectively or subjectively ANYONE could say Sondheim wouldn't be on the top of this list.

[Q]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 12:30pm

"That said, I can't understand how objectively or subjectively ANYONE could say Sondheim wouldn't be on the top of this list."

Why? If we're constricting ourselves to composing alone, I wonder how he'd be in the top ten (and that's even with the caveat that I do respect his work.)

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 4:16pm

I'd like to throw Harold Rome's name into the mix too. Underrated composer. Some beautiful melodies.

[binau]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 5:11pm

"Why? If we're constricting ourselves to composing alone, I wonder how he'd be in the top ten"

I find it interesting how people don't seem to like him as much as a composer. Don't you think his music for e.g. SWEENEY TODD - No Place like London, Epiphany, Pretty Women, My Friends and things is almost more important contextually than the lyrics? I do (I mean, it is the music that makes these songs so affecting for me, more so than the lyrics).

Similarly for some of his other shows (e.g. Passion - I mean I love the lyrics for Fosca's Entrance/I Read but the whole 'story' can almost be told through the music alone, I think).

Some of the other examples listed here, I mean the composers can 'smith' nice 'tunes' etc.. but do they really tell a story as much as Sondheim's do?

Updated On: 1/26/11 at 05:11 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 6:35pm

To Reginald,

Thanks for your kind concern. Somehow I've managed to soldier on lo these many years, and I expect I'll manage to do so in the future as well. I don't care much for his work, it's true. But I don't say " I mean, come on," to those who do.

[jasonf]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 7:49pm

After Eight - just face it, you're wrong. :)

[Mythos]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 7:57pm

Top Ten lists may be fine for Letterman but for a paper of record like the Times, it represents a new low in journalism and a barometer of its lame arts coverage. Offering neither insight or substantive criticism, Tommassini's ridiculous articles are just excuses for a lot of grandstanding and self-aggrandizement. Mozart is better than Stravinsky is better than Brahms is better than Tchaikovsky is better than Mahler...but why go on? It's pointless nonsense.
Updated On: 1/26/11 at 07:57 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 8:01pm

Mythos - pretentious much? Lighten up.

And listen to some Sondheim.

[Ed_Mottershead]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 8:05pm

I was considering Jule Styne only because of Gypsy -- IMO, maybe the best of all American musicals (I said MAYBE). But, pleasant and sometimes even more, his other scores seem, by and large, second tier (not to be confused with second rate). Who crosses themselves when considering Bells Are Ringing, High Button Shoes, Two's Company, Sugar, or even Gentlemen Prefer Blondes or Funny Girl? I'm probably going to take some flak about the last, but the show always seems to revert, no matter who plays the role, to Barbra Streisand.

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 1/26/11 at 10:24pm

Greatest composers and favorite composers are two very different things. The great composers have written shows/songs that have or will withstand the test of time and transcend through generations. There is certainly room for more than ten, but I would say the top ten greatest composers are (in no particular order):
Cole Porter
Leonard Bernstein
Richard Rodgers
Frederick Loewe
Jule Styne
John Kander
Stephen Sondheim
Jerry Herman
Stephen Schwartz
Andrew Lloyd Webber

[TulitaPepsi]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 5:31am

I think I'm in love with After Eight and Mythos. The responses to their comments (most recently those by jasonsf) remind me of that old PEANUTS strip where Lucy comes across Frieda lounging on Schroeder's piano and grandly pronounces: "Do you like Beethoven? Because if you're gonna hang around here, you've GOTTA like Beethoven!"

I'm sorry, Paul, but just an "Honorable Mention" for Jerome Kern and Harold Arlen? I mean, come on!

Updated On: 1/27/11 at 05:31 AM

[chewy5000]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 6:07am

Still no love for Marvin Hamlisch?

[willheim2]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 12:12pm

Wow. Bunch of well-informed people here. Staggering lists of amazing composers, all wonderful with their own unique voices.

[Kad]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 12:29pm

Hamlisch produced, in my opinion, one truly great score: A Chorus Line. This is not to say his other three musical scores aren't *good*.

[jasonf]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 12:38pm

TulitaPepsi -- as jimmycurry said -- "Greatest" composer is different from "favorite" composer.

You simply can't argue that Sondheim is one of the greatest. This is completely objective.

FAVORITE composer is a different matter. You may not like him, but I think in the eyes of a lot of people here that lowers the bar for all other opinions on composers you may have.

[Q]

Posted: 1/27/11 at 12:41pm

"You simply can't argue that Sondheim is one of the greatest."

Typos really can be fun.

And I just love the concept that a discussion such as this includes completely objective components.

Jason, aren't you a teacher?