What if Broadway never were Disneyfied?

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 12:35pm

What Broadway shows would never have played besides the obvious ones (Aida, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, Tarzan, Mary Poppins)?

P.S. For those of you who regularly read my threads, I admit it, I'm a list thread geek!

Updated On: 12/31/05 at 12:35 PM

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:27pm

Then Ragtime would have won the Best Musical Tony Award it so richly deserved.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:34pm

Shows would be grittier and edgier. Less "family friendly." Perhaps more interesting to most of us. Attendance would be down. There would be crack ho's in Times Square. More crime in Midtown.

And Mrs. Bailey wouldn't recognize her own son George when he knocked on the front door.

* shivers *

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:35pm

Why I hate the Disney shows, they have done a lot for the safety and cleanliness of the theatre district.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:36pm

It would be like living " The Life" 24/7 . On the whole, it is better they came if nothing else than for the renovation of the New Amsterdam

I do however have regrets about Forty Deuce being totally gone . I miss the Playlands & Papaya Kings especially

[LilDiva05]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:50pm

There would be no Christy Carlson Romano on Broadway.

One can only dream...

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 1:57pm

I don't know if that's true. I think she was in Parade (and quite good in it) before Disney sucked her in.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 2:11pm

I think if Broadway never was Disneyfied, Broadway actors and actresses would have the same recognition that movie and television stars would have. You would walk down the street and ask someone, "Ever heard of Idina Menzel?" and they would respond with something along the lines of, "Yes, I have and I love what she's done for Broadway."

[chinkie azn jai]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 2:22pm

If Broadway was never Disneyfied I dont think I (and a lot of other people) would have fallen in love with theatre and Broadway. Joseph and the Amazing...was my first show that I saw, and that sparked my interest. But when I saw Beauty and the Beast next, I was in awe and wanted to learn everything about this thing called Broadway.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 3:12pm

I think if Broadway never was Disneyfied, Broadway actors and actresses would have the same recognition that movie and television stars would have. You would walk down the street and ask someone, "Ever heard of Idina Menzel?" and they would respond with something along the lines of, "Yes, I have and I love what she's done for Broadway."

I don't know if this is true. The emergence and popularization of new media is what killed the Broadway star, not Disney (although Disney's brand of shows exacerbated the problem -- Heather Headley is the surprise exception). The Broadway star started keeling over in the early 1980s, and was dead by the time the British Big Four (CATS, LES MIZ, PHANTOM, MISS SAIGON) came to Broadway -- long before Disney set its eyes on Times Square.

[singingsweetee82]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 3:20pm

I agree, BlueWizard. If anything, I believe that Broadway stars would be less recognizable, because even fewer people would be going to shows. Whether or not you like Disney's shows, they have had a big hand in revitalizing Broadway.

[Plum]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 3:37pm

Disneyfication. Such a convenient word, isn't it? But in my opinion, this thread proves it's also an intellectually stifling one. It's a vast oversimplifiation to ascribe all of Broadway's woes to Disney. I mean, seriously, what have they done that's so horribly wrong?

They renovated the New Amsterdam, and unlike certain other sponsoring corporations, didn't name the theatre after themselves. I mean, really, they rebuilt the whole place, which is a lot more justification than, say, the Cadillac Winter Garden has.

They put 3 successful shows on Broadway. Beauty and the Beast was, admittedly, an mediocre first attempt, and I'm indifferent to Aida, but come on, give them a little credit for hiring Julie Taymor and thinking outside the box for The Lion King. That's a lot more than plenty of other producers do. How many of you people excorciating Disney are the same ones who justify the existence of downright crappy shows like Good Vibrations by saying they keep people employed? Disney has kept hundreds of theater people employed for years.

You really think Disney is to blame for the family-friendly nature of Broadway? As if there was a time when it was solely a sophisticated, adult form of entertainment? For heaven's sake, look at the musicals of the past. The Music Man. Anything Goes. Mame. You're honestly going to tell me that the world was nothing but cupcakes and Sondheim until Disney came along?

I'll tell you what's to blame for *gasp* family-friendly shows. It's called economics. A family of 5 sells more tickets than a single person or a couple. Especially when you consider the fact that children like to watch their favorite things over and over again, and have the power of whining on their side.

"Gritty" (whatever that means) doesn't sell. The top movies are always going to be stupid action flicks because teenage boys buy most movie tickets, and the top musicals are going to be family-friendly shows because tourists buy half the tickets on Broadway. And no, I'm not equating family-friendly with stupid.

Hey, you want to know why no one recognizes Broadway stars when they walk down the street? It's because Broadway isn't at the center of American culture anymore. And that happened long before friggin' Beauty and the Beast.

Okay, now that the rant is (mostly) done with, a slight caveat. Demand shapes content, but content shapes demand, as well. So maybe Disney is a contributing factor to such phenomenons as the increase in recognizable "brand names" on Broadway. But casting them as The Great Satan of New York theater is a vast oversimplification.

[leefowler]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 4:09pm

Two names nobody ever seems to praise are Andrew Lloyd Webber and Disney. But if it wasn't for them, there would have been a lot more theatres than the Marc Hellinger sold to churches.

[Kringas]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 4:10pm

Well said, Plum.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 4:44pm

**** YWIW gets out of her chair and jumps to her feet ******

Bravo Plum.

[Enjolras77]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 5:06pm

Plum..very well-thought out and thorough explanation. Even though I am not a fan of the Disney shows on Broadway (although Mary Poppins could change that) I am very grateful for what they have done for Broadway both visually and economically. I am very thankful that they cleaned up 42nd street and made it safe. I am happy that they have produced shows that bring tourists in, sell lots of tickets, and boost the Broadway economy.

Even though I personally am not a fan of their shows (I am still bitter about the whole Ragtime fiasco), I know a lot of people are--and more importantly a lot of them are younger theatregoers. Hopefully, because of Disney a younger generation can become hooked on theatre at an early age and keep Broadway and live theatre thriving for years to come. I currently work for a professional theatre and most of the subscribers are blue-haired and past 65. It is nice to know that once they are gone there will still be patrons left to attend. As this younger generation gets older their tastes will mature and they will then support "grittier" more adult forms of theatre...but if there isn't an outlet to hook them at a young age--chances are a lot slimmer that they would even get hooked at all! Family Shows have their place on Broadway as do mature adult shows. Just take this board for example....look at all the posters who are here because they were hooked on musicals because of these Disney-esque "family shows".....shows like Wicked, Chitty, All Shook Up, Hairspray, Mamma Mia!, etc.

Updated On: 12/31/05 at 05:06 PM

[Broadway_freak]

Posted: 12/31/05 at 5:07pm

.....then it would neer be disneyfied...this is the worst thread ever....

[My Name in Lights]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 12:37am

So THAT'S what happened to the Marc Hellinger Theatre??? It's a church? I always wondered about it, because it was a beautiful theatre and I hadn't seen anything advertised as being there in recent years. (I thought perhaps it had been renamed as so many other theatres.)

As far as Disneyfied goes - Without BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, I would have never seen Terrence Mann for the first time, and that would have been a shame. He is so talented. I would not have been able to take my daughter to her first Broadway show for quite a few more years (and that would have been a shame), since there wasn't anything else running at the time she would have liked to see until she was a bit older. She is now hooked on everything Broadway (and Terrence Mann).

Although it's not typical Broadway (whatever that means), Disney is not afraid to spend money to go the extra mile in its productions. While I don't always like what they do with them, (like casting their TV ingenues),I appreciate the diversity of Broadway to accommodate Disney as well as other atypical productions like special theatrical events, along with traditional theatre. There should be room for everything...

The only problem I can see with big productions like Disney's is that the cost of the show figures in the ticket prices. I recall an earlier production of 42nd STREET, about 15 years ago, raising ticket prices to a shocking $50.00 per seat. Although you can see the money on the stage with a Disney production, and with the earlier 42nd STREET, there are many other shows which do not have the same costume, sets, effects, etc., yet they charge the same high ticket prices (HINT: RENT which I love, but am annoyed that they (among others)collect the high ticket prices for a production that has no large sets, costumes or high paid performers. Where does that money go????

Of course since that time, THE PRODUCERS raised the ticket prices even higher due to the public demand for seats. RENT as well as many other shows, regularly offer student discounts, while Disney only has SRO, except in the rare instance that a Disney show has a slow period like January & February. Then they offer a slight discount, but nothing like other shows.

But I digress...the fact is Disney is on Broadway and is going to be there for a long time, and the odds of Disney putting on a bad show are slim, AND you don't have to go to California or Florida to see it.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 10:44am

The Mark Hellinger was named for a journalist. It was originally a vaudeville theater & the name was changed to Warners Hollywood when it became a picture palace. The original entrance was on Broadway/7 th Ave . What is now the entrance was a side entrance

The architecture in the outer lobby did not match the French Baroque architecture inside. The outer lobby is now an entranceway to the building above

Updated On: 1/1/06 at 10:44 AM

[riv]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 12:01pm

jasobres, the creator of this thread, said: I think if Broadway never was Disneyfied, Broadway actors and actresses would have the same recognition that movie and television stars would have. You would walk down the street and ask someone, "Ever heard of Idina Menzel?" and they would respond with something along the lines of, "Yes, I have and I love what she's done for Broadway."
__________

In case you haven't noticed, Broadway is no longer any kind of force in American pop culture. It hasn't been for decades. Movies and television are so far ahead in the conscience of the last two generations it isn't even funny. Specifically to musicals, popular music changed in this country with rock & roll and eventually left Broadway in the dust. When was the last musical to really produce multiple songs which broke out and hit the pop charts? Maybe "Hair"--and that was back in 1968!

Disney on or not on Broadway has absolutely nothing to do with the fact Broadway has become a niche genre. The tastes of the country are far different today, so let's not kid ourselves and fantasize otherwise. Broadway isn't on most people's radar anymore. I wish it were different, but it isn't.

Disney at least gets people to Broadway who wouldn't normally bother with it at all, similar to the way the big pop opera musicals of the 80s did. Of course, since no good deed goes unpunished, they are denounced by individuals who pretend Broadway doesn't need help in making itself relevant in today's popular culture.

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 12:25pm

The main reason Broadway isn't reaching the masses, has nothing to do with New York itself. It's basically the same theatres with the same number of seats in them.

It's because of the way Broadway is (or actually ISN'T) shown on TV or in Film. The way it's regarded in today's culture. There used to be a reverence for Broadway shows that you can't find on a "screen" of any size. We're lucky these days, if plays or musicals get adapted for the screen. And usually when they do, the BIG audiences aren't there anymore (with the rare exception of something like "Chicago").

Broadway stars did NOT become household names in the 40s and 50s because they stopped a show every night on 48th Street. It's because they consequently turned up on every talk show and variety show on TV that you can name. It's because they were instantly offered film roles or studio contracts. Or recording deals. THAT was why they ultimately became famous around the country.

That kind of "chain reaction" just doesn't happen anymore.

[WildhornFanatic]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 12:27pm

Riv -

You say music from Broadway shows isn't on the radio anymore, which is true. I agree with this statement. This is what Frank Wildhorn is trying to bring back. He's trying to merge Broadway music with mainstream music. Even though most people hate him for his predictable songs, I give the man credit for trying so hard to make the voice of Broadway heard. "This is the Moment" was a huge song that most people DO know.

Here's another question. Are movie musicals changing people's thoughts on Broadway?

[best12bars]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 12:35pm

...Changing their "thoughts?" I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I think we're seeing more Broadway versions of Hollywood musicals (even animated ones), if that's what you mean.

It used to be the other way around.

[Musical_nerd]

Posted: 1/1/06 at 4:49pm

If Broadway was never Disneyfied, I wouldn't be here posting this, on this board, interested in theater.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 1/2/06 at 8:27am

When was the last musical to really produce multiple songs which broke out and hit the pop charts? Maybe "Hair"--and that was back in 1968!


What about Andrew Lloyd Webber? Are you forgetting:

Superstar
I Don't Know how to Love Him
Don't Cry for me Argentina
Memory
Starlight Express
Pie Jesu
The Phantom of the Opera
The Music of the Night
All I Ask of You
Love Changes Everything
As if we Never Said Goodbye
No Matter What - the greatest selling single from a musical in history, thanks to the Boyzone rendition
Whistle Down the Wind
Our Kind of Love

Why does everyone always forget Lloyd Webber?