When a Show Permanently Damages a Performer's Singing Voice..- Page 3

[Gypsy2]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 3:09pm

Rent. Some of those performers... just... ouch.

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 3:36pm

ShbrtAlley44---Those would be very good suggestions, except for 2 things: The show had no intermission... and I played this part back in that netherworld of time before body mics were very common. Only Broadway, and a few of the tours going around back then ("Evita" was one) actually had body-mic'd performers. We had our standard floor mics back then that did a so-so job of general amplification, but I had to "hit the back of the theatre" full-on with my own abilities... sans a little nob peeking over my forehead.

How DID we manage to do it???

Probably your "modern Rutledges" wouldn't have these issues that I did (or the Broadway Rutledges before me), if they only had to worry about sounding good, instead of being heard with any kind of impact.

I did have two breaks on stage (with the rest of the continental congress), during "He Plays the Violin" and "Mama Look Sharp" but unfortunately the way this theatre was constructed, I would have had to leave the building to do a decent warm-up and not be heard by the audience. I tried stepping outside once in rehearsal, but it pulled me SO far out of character, that I decided the trade-off wasn't worth it. There was a lot more to preparing for that monster scene than just the vocal warm-up. A lot of mental and physical prep (I know "actory" things) went into it too. You kinda have to build up to letting loose like that.

EDIT: All this talk, coupled with this particular weekend, makes me want to dust off the movie and watch it again. John Cullum was a magnificent Rutledge. He was one of the many "revolving Rutledges" that had trouble on Broadway.

Updated On: 7/1/06 at 03:36 PM

[ruthiefan_felix]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 3:52pm

Tony Vincent & the girl who originated in WWRY London... apparently Tony did surgery with his vocal cords twice by shouting too loudind and... bursting it?

[morosco]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 3:54pm

"I worked with Len Cariou when he appeared in "Dance A Little Closer". His voice was clearly in bad shape."

The proof can be heard on the cast recording. Wow. He sounds completley like another person.

[morosco]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 3:57pm

Did Emily Skinner suffer any vocal damage from SIDE SHOW?

[sondheimboy2]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:00pm

Dear leefowler,

If I ever get to NY again, we must go out for coffee or drinks so I can pump you for information about "Dance A Little Closer"... The good stuff in that show is so good and the bad stuff ain't even that bad.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:02pm

Oh, that's awful, 12bars. Good for you getting through it! Yes, John Cullum was fabulous. Though I do find it funny how he absolutely does not look twenty-six. Of course, neither did Gregg Edelman. I haven't seen a picture of Clifford David.

God, I want to play Rutledge. I'm thinking of mounting an all-female production I think I'll go watch the movie now. I brought it with me to London!

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:03pm

That's funny. I think that Cariou sounds pretty terrific on the Dance a Little Closer recording, which was recorded a couple of weeks after the show closed.

ljay889, if Verdon was affected vocally by the feather incident and it can be heard on the Charity recording, that would mean it happened out of town, during Broadway previews, or very early in the run (before the recording was made), yes?

1776 usually is performed with intermission nowadays, or at least it is in many productions. In fact, they added one to the Broadway production later during its original run.

But it must be tough for Routledges. Something similar happens in Strauss's opera Die Frau Ohne Schatten. The Princess must sit onstage with no singing at all for more than an hour and then do lots of big, tough, dramatic singing.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:18pm

I'm so sick of the constant bashing of Gwen Verdon's voice on here. Have you heard all of her work on disc? I think she had a great, unique voice, and was a better singer than most of you give her credit for...

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:28pm

I also love Gwen Verdon's voice, BobbyBubby.

Btw, I think that "My Own Best Friend" is such a better, more effective number as a duet. And it makes more sense for the show that way.

[BobbyBubby]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:30pm

I think it is best as a duet too. There is great irony to be found in a duet about being alone...

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:34pm

It's far more in tune with the tone of the entire show when it's a duet.

[algy]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 4:42pm

"Tony Vincent & the girl who originated in WWRY London... apparently Tony did surgery with his vocal cords twice by shouting too loudind and... bursting it?"

To my knowledge, Vincent only had one lot of surgery which was towards the end of his time in the show. I don't know what it was for, other than that it was throat surgery. He had had some tonsilitis before I think. He sounded as good when he came back as he did when he started in the role.

As for Hannah Jane Fox, there was some change in the way she sang the role, but that may have been down to outside factors.

The show is terribly tough to sing - it amazes me that one man sang all the songs originally - but vocal injuries seem to have been few and far between.

[somethingwicked]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 5:04pm

In regards to Idina Menzel, as others have said, her vocal problems throughout her run in "Wicked" haven't cause her any permanent damage, as is evident in her stellar work in "See What I Wanna See."

Menzel's main problem was that she hardly ever missed a show for illness... when she was out, it was usually either for a vacation or a scheduled absence (like the time she took off to film a movie.) She went on almost every time she was sick, which is why she had to leave the show after Act 1 on several occasions.

The other problem she had was pacing herself vocally. The way Elphaba's big numbers are structured (four big solos spread out very widely in the beginning of Act 1, middle of Act 1, end of Act 1, and end of Act 2) requires the actress playing her to hold back a little in the beginning to be able to deliver towards the middle/end, particularly if that actress is sick.

Menzel had a bad habit of trying to knock everything out of the ball park from the beginning instead of showing some restraint. This would usually make for a stellar "The Wizard and I" (a song she almost always did flawlessly,) but by the time she got to "Defying Gravity" and (eventually) "No Good Deed," her voice was just spent. It's like a marathon... if you come running right out of the gate to full speed, by the time you get over your first big hurdle you'll be winded already.

Moving on.. can someone elaborate on the incident eluded to earlier involving Reinking and the bottle full of cleaning solution?

Updated On: 7/1/06 at 05:04 PM

[Artistic Director]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 5:16pm

Gwen Verdon and the feather incident happened in CHICAGO, and that is when Liza Minnelli subbed for her for 6 weeks. Her voice was never the same after that.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 5:19pm

All the info I've obtained says the Chicago incident was a nasty throat infection.

I believe it was a boa from Sweet Charity. Her voice was never the same after Charity!

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 6:32pm

"1776 usually is performed with intermission nowadays..."

nobodyhome --- That just depresses me. When a creative team's vision for their show is ignored or disregarded that way. It was discussed on another recent thread about the optional intermissions for both "1776" and "A Chorus Line." It comes down to money (doesn't it always?). Theatres lose a substantial profit in weekly bar and concession sales on an "intermission-less" show.

It seems that the "business" always creeps back into the "show," doesn't it?

I wouldn't be surprised if Baayork Lee & co. were having to fight HARD right now to keep the revival of A Chorus Line intermisison-free. They're basically asking their producers to give up that profit every week. Fortunately, their show doesn't have a high weekly overhead in production costs, so I'm sure it'll work out.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 10:17pm

I think that Peter Stone once said that when 1776 was done in London and they were asked to put in an intermission, they did so reluctantly. But when they saw the show with an intermission, they found they preferred it that way and they added an intermission to the Broadway production.

It's funny but there was an intermission in the Roundabout and Greg Edelman still ran into vocal trouble. When I saw it, he acted the song very well but he really seemed to be holding back vocally. And early on he missed some performances. The understudy went on and wasn't ready to do the song so they cut it!

I saw the original production less than four months into the run and Clifford David was already gone. David Cryer got an enormous response for the song, a long, long ovation. I do think that he played the role for a pretty long time. As far as I know there were only three official Rutledges during the run: David, Cryer, and Cullum. Perhaps they took regular vacations or the understudies went on a lot.

Actually, I forgot all about Cullum's later vocal troubles. On the Twentieth Century killed his voice. The last three or four months of the run he did not sound good. And I've heard that he had an operation for nodes after the run.

Updated On: 7/1/06 at 10:17 PM

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 10:36pm

on the subject of idina, I think her voice post wicked sounds better than it does on the rent and wicked obc's (compare the movie version of take me or leave me to the obcr one)

as for rutledge that song is hell on earth i agree, especially since its a rather angry song and maintaining that intensity is hard enough

[Joshua488]

Posted: 7/1/06 at 10:56pm

I don't really think we can use the Rent film soundtrack to judge Idina Menzel's voice. It sounds like everyone on that soundtrack had their vocals tweaked with computers. There isn't a sour note on that recording, which is unnatural... especially Rosario Dawson's voice! It's so pristine and her tone is impeccable on those sustained notes with no vibrato...

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 5:03am

nobodyhome, they CUT Molasses to Rum? Not like it's a major plot point or anything... What, did Rutledge just say, "Take it out or I'll be reeeeally pissed!" and storm out?

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 9:35am

"Yeah... and I'll take the whole South with me, because I'm so upset, and they do whatever I tell them to! Just because!"

Boy, that must have been awful... and on Broadway, no less?

You missed one other "Rutledge" that I know of, during the original run: Gary Beach. That's 4 Rutledges in less than 3 years, plus their understudies. Gary played it when the show moved to the Majestic. Perhaps his voice survived it better than the others. He had to have been pretty young when he tackled it. Either that, or he in his 70s now!

I was a "youngin" myself when I played it: 22. I was 4 years younger than the character, even if he's supposed to be the youngest man in congress. Maybe that's why my voice bounced back 100 percent after that. Also, we had a limited run, so I didn't have too much opportunity for permanent damage. I never was so bad off that I couldn't perform the show (or the song). But I was always struggling to keep from "fraying around the edges," and I had that constant feeling that with just one false move, or vocal overindulgence on my part, and I'd be out for a while. It never happened, thankfully. And it forced me to take care of myself during the run. I didn't talk much or go out at night. All because of six lousy minutes each performance!

Hey, I got the best reviews of my (limited) career on stage (you couldn't pay for notices like that!), and it was one of the most satisfying roles I've ever played. Diving into his head during the slave auction monologue is a scary place to be.

[nobodyhome]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 11:12am

Thanks, best12bars, for the Gary Beach info. I didn't know or had forgotten that he'd played it and didn't notice him listed on ibdb.

As for those performances at the Roundabout when "Molasses to Rum" was cut, I don't know how they dealt with it. I wasn't at any of those performances, I just heard about them but not in detail about how they maneuvered around the cut.

[singtopher]

Posted: 7/2/06 at 2:39pm

Going back to the original topic, is it worth damaging your voice permanently for a show? If the actor is right for the role shouldn't the music director and the actor themselves figure out ways to prevent this?

I understand the issues surrounding Verdon and Cariou, but otherwise if your pushing and screaming in order to sing the score, maybe you shouldn't be singing the role. It could be the last role you sing.