Why is it hard for other Sweeneys and Lovetts to win acting Tonys now?

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 6:46am

Len Cariou and Angela Lansbury won acting Tonys for their original performances as Sweeney and Lovett. These are titanic roles in the musical theater canon that seem like award magnets. Why in each of the later revivals of the show on Broadway have the Sweeneys and Lovetts failed to win Tonys? To me Cerveris and LuPone should have easily won in 2005 over John Lloyd Young and LaChanze, and I half expected Groban to pull off a win this year. Many people suspect Ashford would have won had Clark not been in the race for best actress this year too. What are people's thoughts? One would think these roles are so mammoth that they would steamroll over any other competition but it's difficult to win nowadays with these roles - is it that the original performances are so indelible that it's hard to honor anyone else? 

Updated On: 6/12/23 at 06:46 AM

[binau]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 6:51am

Idk I think it’s just unfortunate competition timing. I might have given best actor to Platt over Groban, for example. Even though I think Groban really delivered vocally in the role. Ashford also impressed me but again with Clark it just didn’t really work out (and many might have said Diamond was ahead too). 

[Broadway61004]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 8:27am

I don't think it has to do anything with the roles themselves, but just unfortunate timing as far as being against other competition. No way was Tyne Daly not winning for her Mama Rose and City of Angels was the big behemoth at the 1990 Tonys which included James Naughton. Then Lloyd Young was the talk of the town for his Frankie Valli in 2006 (and Cerveris had just won 2 years prior). LaChanze was a bit of an upset, but it makes sense in that this was the only spot to reward Color Purple. And Victoria Clark has been the frontrunner all year. Josh Groban was probably the best chance to break this streak, but Ghee was far more acclaimed for his work this year. So yeah, not the characters themselves, just bad timing.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 8:39am

I really liked Sweeney and both of their performances but I'm ok with no big prize for either....because there simply WERE better performances. (Truth be told, I was rooting for BDJ over Platt.) 

 

It shouldn't be about the role or that anyone else won for those roles before. Back when Sweeney appeared, it was new and exciting...daring even. Now, we've all seen ST, many, many times.

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 8:41am

Completely agree with the other comments here. They're not winning for the role. It's the role, plus the season, plus the other nominees in the category that year. It's not like if you play a role that has won before, that automatically guarantees a Tony win. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 8:59am

You have to look at the competition. 
Since the Tony Awards don’t release the percentage of votes each nominee received, we don’t know how close some of these races are. 
 

[Listener]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 10:50am

I really enjoy Groban and am glad he does Broadway since he obviously loves theater and has great pipes, but crucially, his Sweeney just wasn't frightening. He sang it well, true, but he didn't vanish into the character and that means he got halfway there. It felt like AA was carrying the show and giving a more well-rounded performance. Too hammy, perhaps, but more dynamic. Of the two of them, she stood a better chance of winning based on merit.

Honestly, I'm relieved Groban (and Hugh before him) didn't win because it proves that Bway hasn't succumbed to the idea that a star deigning to appear on the boards is reason enough to give them a Tony. Let their performance be perfect and the casting be right regardless of their fame, and then give them a Tony.

[Wick3]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 11:15am

I feel if you were nominated for the Tony, then you have the merit/credentials to win.

It now depends on the voters and the competition.

 

[Kad]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 11:25am

Well, this is only the third revival of the show on Broadway. And the first revival has been more or less lost to memory due to lack of a recording, lack of much writing or documentation about it, and lack of big Broadway names attached to it. 

I recall LaChanze’s win over Patti being kind of an upset, but again, Celie is a powerhouse vocal role in a way that Lovett isn’t, and that impresses nominators. The same was true of John Lloyd Young versus Michael Cerveris that year- Young’s Frankie Valli vocals were a big deal that season, as kind of eyeroll-y as it is to think now. 

Updated On: 6/12/23 at 11:25 AM

[jo]

Posted: 6/12/23 at 7:59pm

Listener said: "

Honestly, I'm relieved Groban (and Hugh before him) didn't win because it proves that Bway hasn't succumbed to the idea that a star deigning to appear on the boards is reason enough to give them a Tony. Let their performance be perfect and the casting be right regardless of their fame, and then give them a Tony."


Jackman has the theatre background (a graduate of dramatic theatre & professionally a former Olivier nominee and  former Tony winner) who just happens to be a big film star as well. He was an Oscar nominee for Les Miserables and is now widely recognized in movies for his range  & versatility ( this year, he has just concluded his Music Man Broadway run, released the heavy drama The Son for which he has a GGlobe nomination, & will be back as a superhero in his next movie). Why not watch his heavy drama movies (Prisoners/The Prestige/The Fountain), his dark comedy Bad Education & the recent familial drama on mental health in which he is the central character or the titular SON?  He has done both musicals and drama on stage. If he wins , it is for his performance and not just because he is a big name. He has also been an accomplished host for the Oscars & the Tonys.

Interesting that he and theatre/film star Patrick Stewart once talked about reviving Sweeney Todd if they had the opportunity.

 

Updated On: 6/12/23 at 07:59 PM

[jo]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 12:17am

Some people are unaware or forget that Hugh Jackman came from the theatre before he became a Hollywood film star. He stole the show as Gaston in Beauty&theBeast & played JoeGillis in Sunset Blvd. It was Trevor Nunn ( director of the Royal National Theatre &the Royal Shakespeare Company; also of acclaimed plays Les Miserables/SunsetBlvd/NicholasNickleby) who cast him in SunsetBlvd and brought him to the London revival of Oklahoma!. Before London, Hugh also won an acting award for his portrayal in a film adaptation of a play called Erskinsville Kings - an inner city drama in Sydney. It was in Oklahoma! that XMen producer LSDonner discovered him & suggested his eventual casting as Wolverine. Early on, his versatility was already noted.

If people think he cannot handle savage scenes (such as the supposed throat-slicing scenes in Sweeney Todd) here is one of the most frightening scenes on screen, from the movie Prisoners  directed by Denis Villeneuve ( which had an impeccable cast - with Jake Gyllenhaal/Viola Davis/Terence Howard/MelissaLeo/Paul Dano), where Hugh portrays an alpha male whose daughter went missing. He imprisons ( and hurts) the young man whom he suspected of kidnapping his daughter. A traumatic scene :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEbUj6HXbNc

 

 

 

 

Hugh Jackman does not "deign to act in the theatre" -- he is an accomplished thespian ( his Broadway plays include A Steady Rain & Jez Butterworth's The River) and has been successful in musical theatre as well. Also, it was his film TheGreatestShowman( he is an uncredited producer & oversaw the project for 8 years) which  helped reinvigorate the interest in movie musicals.

 

 

Updated On: 6/13/23 at 12:17 AM

[joevitus]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 12:32am

Different take than most here, but Lansbury's performance being recorded for posterity may make other Lovett's shine less brightly in the eyes of Tony voters. And though it's Hearn not Cariou on that video recording, he may too be indelibly marked in their minds in a way that makes it more difficult to embrace either radically different interpretations or those which mimic his. 

[jo]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 12:44am

joevitus said: "Different take than most here, but Lansbury's performance being recorded for posterity may make other Lovett's shine less brightly in the eyes of Tony voters. And though it's Hearn not Cariou on that video recording, he may too be indelibly marked in their minds in a way that makes it more difficult to embrace either radically different interpretations or those which mimic his."

I agree with you.

It is an issue for those who play roles in revivals whose original character portrayals have won awards.

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 2:09am

For what it’s worth, actors playing Sweeney and Mrs. Lovett frequently win awards regionally for those roles. Fun fact: Paul Jordan Jansen, the “Ballad of Sweeney Todd” opening soloist and understudy for Sweeney, won the Chicago Jeff Award in the title role a few years ago. 

[Soaring29]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 7:42am

Lupone seems to be the one who has had the best shot but LaChanze deservingly won.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 8:00am

I'll be forever salty LuPone lost that year. She truly reinvented that role at that time. I know it divided people, but hey, IMO...

Also, yes to piggyback on what someone said above, Sweeneys and Lovetts have fared better at the Oliviers in London - Julia McKenzie and Alun Armstrong won best actor/actress in 1994 for the NT revival and Imelda Staunton and Michael Ball both won for the 2011 revival.

[WldKingdomHM]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 9:00am

Patti should of won that year over Lachanze (kenita miller was better)

[aliceripleyofficial]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 10:25am

Well this year, Sweeney and Lovett were undeserving

[BJR]

Posted: 6/13/23 at 11:13am

I'm still a little bitter Patti lost that year, as I think it's one of her best performances.

But also, it was a true ensemble piece. One of the most impressive things about her was how little it resembled a star turn, but true ensemble acting.

Plus, LaChanze is so loved and it was somewhere to reward Color Purple.