Why the hate for 'Jukebox' musicals- Page 2

[KJP]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:47pm

It seems to me that the purpose of Broadway is to entertain, therefore if people are entertained by the "jukebox" musicals, then how can Broadway be ruined by them? Everyone, thankfully, has different likes and dislikes. So if you don't like "Jukebox" musicals, don't spend the money on them. Broadway is full of all types of entertainment, something for everyone. You have a CHOICE!!!!

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:49pm

Sadly, it is getting to the point where we won't have as much of a choice. I hate jukebox musicals with a passion - but I will still see them all atleast once before I pass judgement. In fact, I'm off now to go see GOOD VIBRATIONS....

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:52pm

Penny Lou you have been a most effective advocate for All Shook Up and always can be counted on to rush to it's defense--even when (like now) no one has attacked it. The show is lucky to have you working the boards ceaselessly promoting it.

I have nothing against Jukebox Musicals, but I've never seen one where I think the old songs were as effective as a brand new score. Twenty years ago, Ethan Mordden cited "using old songs" as one of the ways to ruin a show in his analysis of Broadway Flops "Not Since Carrie."

One of the reason I think old songs are less effective is that no old song pulled from a tunestack can fit as well as a brand-new song written for that moment. In All Shook Up, a character comes on stage looking sad and holding a letter. Another character says "Why do you look so sad? Isn't that a letter from your girlfriend?" Because this is an ELVIS musical, YOU KNOW he's going to sing "Return To Sender." If this were a Marvelettes Musical he would sing "Please Mr. Postman." If it were a Boxtops Musical he would sing "The Letter." It becomes a tedious exercise of waiting for an awkward cue for the expected hit. Believe me, when there is an Elton John Musical, there will be a character named Daniel and we will all wait for his brother to sing "Daniel My brother...." no matter how awkwardly it's shoehorned into the plot.

In All Shook up, the only time a song seemed new to me was when the cast sang "Can't Help Falling in Love;" It advanced the plot, it told us a little about the characters and it was a lovely, fresh arrangement of the song.

In rereading, I thought of two times old music was used to good effect, and both in movies: When I first saw "Singing in the Rain" I had no idea that those songs predated that film by decades. It seemed that that title song was written to be sung by Gene Kelly at that time, in that sitaution. More recently, Moulin Rouge did a wonderful job of fitting old music to a new plot. Could any new song fit the mood better than when "Roxanne" is sung late in the film as an ode to obsessive jealousy?

Someday, I hope we have a jukebox musical that uses it's songs so well. When we do, I'll be right there with you cheering for it.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:54pm

A lot of this has been discussed, but I'll just add my two cents with my own words. My biggest problem with Jukebox musicals is that it takes away from what I love about musical theatre. The sheer magic of someone, or a couple of people, whatever, combining a story with music and intertwining the two is just...fascinating. How the book relates to the music, how the music relates to the book, how different shows accomplish it, it's just great as it's all new. The book is written to work with the score and the score is written to work with the book. Even in many "unoriginal" shows based on books, movies, or plays, the script still needs to work with the music and a lot of these end up trimming anyway, i. e. from what I've heard Little Women's script is not the like the novel-the book has to allow for the music to come. Okay, I think I'm kind of repeating myself, so that's my first point.

Second point...it's just not the same when the songs were already written for a different purpose. One of the things I love about Broadway songs is the fact that they are written for a particular story. To see and hear songs written specifically for a show, with such beautiful lyrics...the songs just have so much purpose, it's great. A song like Seasons of Love can relate to so many of our own lives, yet the song is just so enriched relating it to the characters and the story. This is why I prefer listening to my broadway CD then listening to...Dancing Queen, even though I like that song, it just doesn't have the same effect, it just doesn't feel as purposeful.

Finally, and I think this has been mentioned, I just feel it's a slight insult to composers who work hard to write the songs along with the story. I hate to sound like a whiny 4-year old but I honestly don't think it's fair that they could get away w/ it. Okay. Hopefully that explains at least my problem with jukebox musicals.

[mallardo]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:54pm

Some "jukebox" musicals stink and some actually work. A show like Crazy For You might be considered to fall into this category since two-thirds of the songs in it were culled from other Gershwin shows or other Gershwin sources, at least, but no one cried out about musical numbers being shoehorned into a silly plot. Why not? Because Gershwin is revered and great and perhaps Abba is not. Let's judge each show on its own merits regardless of the category it falls into.

[Marquise]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:57pm

mallardo you beat me to it! i was just about to post if people on this board considered Crazy for You or My One and Only "jukebox musicals".

[Plum]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:58pm

Wasn't Crazy For You a reworking of an older musical? The songs were written for theater, if not for that exact show. It's sometimes considered bad form to use "trunk songs" nowadays, but I don't think it's quite the same as saying "let's use so-and-so's pop catalogue because they have good name recognition."

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 5:59pm

Mallardo, it's not just the quality of songs or the artist that people have an issue with, it seems. More the contrived way that the plots are twisted to form an awkward sedgeway for an otherwise irrelevant but familiar tune.

But I do agree with you that each show should be judged on its own merits regardless of the category.

[mallardo]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:12pm

Well, let me risk some flak by saying that I thought The Boy From Oz was a pretty good attempt at slotting pre-existing songs into a musical drama. Whatever you thought of the show, the songs DID tell the Peter Allen story - the sole exception, for me, being "Best That You Can Do" which really did feel awkwardly placed.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:15pm

Ehhh.......well, I wasn't a fan of BFO, but it didn't have to do with the songs. The songs were slotting in passably, but I think it's because many of the songs were used as Peter's cabaret acts, so it didn't seem so out of place. And of course, Hugh Jackman can do no wrong.

In terms of what jukebox musicals I think could have great potential if written well, I'd have to say The Beatles (isn't someone creating one as we speak?) and MJ.

[Plum]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:15pm

I respectfully disagree. I thought a few of the songs in BFO fit in perfectly, but the rest ranged from slightly out of place to "what the heck was that?". Enormous chunks of the book just didn't work at all. The cast of that show saved it- I'm amazed at their skill and professionalism. Updated On: 2/18/05 at 06:15 PM

[BwayTheatre11]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:18pm

I am so sick of hearing about Jukebox musicals...

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:21pm

Crazy For You is a wierd Hybrid. Great chunks of plot and songs were taken from an old Gershwin musical Girl Crazy and then other Gershwin hits were added in. It used to be pretty common to do that with the old shows: The most frequently performed version of "Anything Goes" is very similar: The original plot of the 1934 (?) musical was taken and then extra Cole Porter Hits were plugged in.

And you know what? Those extra hits (although glorious to hear) do tend to stick out: I recall the scene where Reno's 'Angels' suddenly are stricken with an attack of homesickness so that they can sing a few choruses of "Take Me Back to Manhattan."

[KJP]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:22pm

munkustrap, I can't believe that on all of Broadway and off Broadway there isn't something you'd rather spend your money on then a type of musical you hate. Unless you like to see everything and want to judge each show for itself, if that's the case I hope you cna see it with an open mind so it's not a total waste of an evening for you. Let us know what you think.

[KJP]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:23pm

Munkstrap, Sorry I didn't read the your whole post, my bad! Anyway good luck tonight

[KJP]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 6:26pm

Joekv, That was very well put! And I happen to like the jukebox musicals. You are a very well spoken(or in this case written) person.

[PennyLou]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 7:18pm

JoeKv99 first of all, yes I do happen to be a big fan of the show already and All Shook Up is what sparked my interest in the jukebox musical topics.. But the main reason I used it in this post is because its the only one I know well.. I saw Good vibration and agree with most of the reviews.. it was nothing more then a pop concert on stage because their was very little story line in it. Also I have seen moving out but feel the show is more of a ballet type show rather then a musical. I do happen to love 'Crazy For You' it is my favorite show that I have ever done, there is a special place in my heart for that show!

That said I also do happen to agree with you on 'Return to Sender'.. I feel that song is a little much in the show and happened to like the song that was there in CT better. I also agree with you on the 'Can't help falling in love with you number" I think it is the best thing in the show. But while feeling that was the best number in the show I didn't feel like it was the only number in the show that fit into it like a show song. I feel that the numbers "A little less Conversation", "I don't want to", and "If I can Dream" all fit very nicely where they are in the story I also feel that "Love Me Tender" and Follow that dream display Natalie's yearning from more then what she is seemingly stuck with.. While "It Hurts Me" shows Dennis true feeling towards Natalie. I, just feel like the story is write mostly very well around the music and MOST of the numbers fit into it very nicely helping the show move along like music in a show should..

I'm sorry if people find it a problem that I happen to like this show a lot and wish it well.. I like hairspray a lot to. They make me happy and I have a good time while seeing them.

Updated On: 2/18/05 at 07:18 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 7:19pm

I wish I would have seen "Broadway Jukebox

[MagicToDo82]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 8:18pm

Some of Shakespeare's plays were based off older/other stories.

From the beginning of time, there have been adapatations. We wouldn't have West Side Story without Romeo and Juliet, or Rent without La Boheme. Look at some of the most successful musicals ever....Phantom (based off book), Les Mis (based off book), Cats (based off poems), Hello Dolly (based off a play - The Matchmaker), Camelot (Arthurian Legends), Oklahoma (Based off a play - Green Grow the Lilacs ), Hairspray (movie), The Producers (movie), Guys and Dolls (based off Damon Runyan's stories), Ragtime (based off book), Carousel (based off a play - Lilliom), Cabaret (I am a camera) Heck people, Wicked is based off a book, which was based on another book, which was made into a movie. Even Parade, Chess, Side Show, Tick Tick Boom, are [sometimes loosely] based on actual occurances...

This all said, I really don't have a problem will well-constructed jukebox musicals. Smokey Joe's Cafe was a cute revue, Mamma Mia is fun enertainment that doesn't try to be anything its not, and Movin' Out is a work of dance art. It's the recent onslaught of these types of shows that have people worried - especially the idea that the book can suck as long as the songs are catchy - along with the fear that every single famous musician in history will end up with some ridiculous show of their hit songs while original musicals die by the wayside.

The scary part is that Broadway, underneath it all, is a business, and when it comes down to a choice between some jukebox drivel like Good Vibrations or some original and creative musical that doesn't have a big name attached, which do YOU think the producers are going to choose?

It's amazing that shows like Urinetown and Avenue Q made it. Cheers to the new writers.

[jo]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 8:22pm

I agree that Best That You Can Do ( aka Arthur's Theme) was a bad fit in THE BOY FROM OZ. They just had to fit in an Oscar winner

But the other songs worked pretty well for me - especially ALL THE LIVES OF ME, NOT THE BOY NEXT DOOR, and ONCE BEFORE I GO in telling the story of Peter Allen. The song that was cut out from the show ( but restored as a bonus feature in the cast album), TENTERFIELD SADDLER, would have been a great addition to the show although I can understand why it was difficult to fit that in.

Re Jukebox musicals - in most cases, they don't work because the backbone of the show stems from the song catalog and not from the story they are trying to tell. I guess calling them musical theatre is a bit of a stretch. But I do not discount that they do have entertainment value for some sectors.

Btw, at the West End, jukebox musicals are referred to as "tribute musicals" Updated On: 2/18/05 at 08:22 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 8:34pm

I don't think it's valid to compare shows with adapted books with shows that have jukebox scores. It's not the same thing, folks.

The book is the backbone of the musical- everything else is supported by it. It's perfectly acceptable- even good, I think- to adapt stories from other sources. When you do that, you're trying to tell the story in another way, because you think it will be enhanced if it is musicalized. And if you have a good book writer, the story will be adapted in a way that works for musical theater- succint, with good places for songs.

I'm going to assume the best here and say the argument is that jukebox musicals are "adapting" a pop catalogue just like book writers adapt plays or movies for their material. After all, arrangements are changed, and sometimes lyrics are altered to make the score work, right?

Well, that doesn't make the situations analogous. Adapting a story for the theater, then writing a score for it, makes it into a musical theater piece. Changing the orchestration and context of a pop song will not make it into a musical theater song, and doing it to a lot of pop songs doesn't make it a musical theater score. The essence of a book musical is that everything flows from the story, not that the story is lumped around the songs.

There are good musicals that aren't book-centered- plenty of pre-Oklahoma!, non Showboat musicals are still considered great. But I really don't believe that the producers of jukebox musicals think they're making good score-centered musical theater. They don't look at the songs and think "this is good theater." They look at the artist and think "this will make money." The money/art balancing act is always there- I just think things like Good Vibrations tip the balance too far towards the former. Updated On: 2/18/05 at 08:34 PM

[redhotinnyc2]

Posted: 2/18/05 at 9:25pm

I hate them because they're just so weak. They're trite and meaningless for the most part. I like a show that makes me think - I hate that kind of entertainment where you go to the theatre and just dissappear into the show for two hours without being challenged in some way - like Sondheim's shows always do - the lyrics and situations always force the viewer to participate, to a degree, and thats what I like about going to the theatre - the challenge. Trite jukebox musicals just don't cut it.

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 2/19/05 at 6:21am

Well, I love original musicals and I have no problem with Jukebox musicals. I think variety is essential for theater and I prefer a Jukebox musical over a dark theater any day. I think the public is the ultimate judge and from the huge success of Mamma Mia all over the world, it must be doing something right !!! If I don't like something, I won't pay to see it, but I will certainly accept its right to exist if other people like it ! That's the beauty of theater, something for everyone !
That said, I can't wait for "Ray of Light" A musical featuring the songs of Madonna LOL. I sooo wish something like that can happen, if only they persuade her ! :)

Take care

[apdarcey]

Posted: 2/19/05 at 10:22am

are you kidding? i feel like this thread shouldn't even be justified with this number of posts.