Why was Bare disliked?- Page 3

[WOSQ]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 3:09pm

I too, am with Theatreboy33. The story of Bare and it's conflicts were very familiar.

The score did not have one standout-stand alone song.

(Someone, thinking that I actually had money, approached me half-heartedly about investing. My remark after saying "With what?" was that they needed to go write a couple of good commercial songs, get them on a disc and get some airplay. The audience for this show would hear a good song and the DJ would say "...and that's from the musical Bare...")

I didn't think it would be a financial success, and definitely would not if it was produced by the book instead of outside the box. The investor who pulled out did so to the tune of half the budget.

The cast was good, in some cases very good, but the whole show wasn't enough: good enough, memorable enough, heartbreaking enough, tuneful enough, funny enough, unique enough--you know, enough.

The show wasn't hard to sit through, but I wonder how I would have felt if I had paid 80 bucks.

The audience loved it. But it was a small theatre packed with PLU (People Like Us).

[Jamie Hat]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 3:22pm

I would also like to add that I found that R&J song to be quite atrocious.
It's a good thing that the show was cast as well as it was, because IN MY OPINION a lot of the material can't stand alone without some help.

How is BROOKLYN still running?

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:06pm

magic8ball, I'm glad you took so much time to disect my entire argument. THough, i believe the thread was started to ask why Bare was disliked. I merely stated my opinion, and didn't ask for someone who (from the overused "christ motif" apparent in your icon) obviously loved the show to counterattack me. I dont really see this as a debate. I was answering why I didnt like it. Also, to assume this means I wish Broadway to be taken over by recycled jukebox musicals is moronic. Search the boards a little and you'll find my opinion of that crap too. Im just one person hoping Broadway maintains high enough standards to keep certain things off broadway--where BARE belonged, IN MY OPINION, NOT THE WORD OF GOD. PLease dont bother to critique this either.

[2day4u9704301]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:08pm

Just a note to SingingBackup, the cast at the ATA was completely different from the cast in LA, with the exception of Jenna Leigh Green. From what I have heard, the ATA cast was a vast improvement on the LA cast, but that's just what I've heard.

[BWayBoy88]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:13pm

I thought the ATA cast was flawless. In my opinion, the lyrics were brilliant, and the music was wonderful.

[magic8ball]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:29pm

"I merely stated my opinion, and didn't ask for someone who (from the overused "christ motif" apparent in your icon) obviously loved the show to counterattack me."

I would like to HOPE that people can back up their opinions if they're going to lay them out in the open. Then again, maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

And, yes- I have a "Bare" avatar. I can't help it if I want people to know that I have good taste.

And about the overused Christ motif... I just wanted a still that WASN'T the avatar of at least 20 users on this site...

"Also, to assume this means I wish Broadway to be taken over by recycled jukebox musicals is moronic."

Honestly, I don't believe that you do. But your statement about you being glad that "Bare" isn't on Broadway REALLY pissed me off considering the quality of the material of most Broadway shows right now.

"PLease dont bother to critique this either."

Sorry. I'm not the person to not respond in situations like these. Look elsewhere.

BTW, I'm curious to know- What currently-running Broadway shows DO meet your high standard of expectation?

Updated On: 1/12/05 at 04:29 PM

[dancindramadude]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:32pm

"Now, having said all this, the mystery as to why BRKLN is still running is simply baffling."

Cause the show is great. I will admit that the show its self isnt the greatest thing to hit Broadway nd as my friends says "they tell you how to feel not show you." But, as a performer, techie, nd designer I am in love with the voices, sets and costumes. The set changes were incredibly smart and I loved the trash costumes that were ingenious.

Sorry I know this has nothing to do with BARE but I have actually seen BKLYN so i will shut up now.

[dancindramadude]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:32pm

"Now, having said all this, the mystery as to why BRKLN is still running is simply baffling."

Cause the show is great. I will admit that the show its self isnt the greatest thing to hit Broadway nd as my friends says "they tell you how to feel not show you." But, as a performer, techie, nd designer I am in love with the voices, sets and costumes. The set changes were incredibly smart and I loved the trash costumes that were ingenious.

Sorry I know this has nothing to do with BARE but I have actually seen BKLYN so i will shut up now.

Posted: 1/12/05 at 4:38pm

We saw BARE on our NYC trip last April. I left the theatre thinking, "I'm glad there's some young people striving to work within this medium. However, I think they could benefit with a little more awareness of dramatic form, music vocabulary and writing depth of character." As far as any 'cliched' aspects of the piece, the only thing that really bothered me was the ending. I just personally didn't like seeing yet another case of unfulfillment for the protagonist at the end.

Ultimately, in an atmosphere where so many decry the dearth of original musicals, I'm not willing to lambaste someone for at least making the effort. Encouragement and guidance go a lot further than judgement and ridicule.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 9:00pm

magic8, Id be happy to list shows which meet my credentials for quality theatre currently on Broadway:
Hairspray
The Producers
La Cage Aux Folles
Rent (previously, not with the stunt casting)
Ave. Q
700 Sundays
Democracy
Twelve Angry Men
Pacific Overtures

And as for backing up my opinions--that's exactly why after each of my points came a detailed reasoning. How far can I back them up? because i can assure you and your "good taste", you will never convince me to change my opinion on Bare. Give it up. Its closed.
Updated On: 1/12/05 at 09:00 PM

[magic8ball]

Posted: 1/12/05 at 11:04pm

It makes me wonder how someone who appreciates the shows on your list (most of which I completely agree with) can fail to acknowledge "Bare" as a good piece of theatre...

"And as for backing up my opinions--that's exactly why after each of my points came a detailed reasoning."

Ummm... followed by me telling you why half of your points aren't even valid.

"you will never convince me to change my opinion on Bare. Give it up. Its closed."

I have no intent of changing your views about this particular show. This may come as a shock- brace yourself- but I actually don't care about influencing the views of someone I don't know and will probably never meet outside of the context of a Broadway message board. I don't CARE whether or not you like "Bare". The only reason why I responded to your post in the first place was to defend a good show against defamatory claims that are unfounded and unfair.

[PleaseChangeMe]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 12:08am

Hairspray
The Producers
La Cage Aux Folles
Rent (previously, not with the stunt casting)
Ave. Q
700 Sundays
Democracy
Twelve Angry Men
Pacific Overtures>

I agree with you, except on Hairspray. You complain about cliche, yet Hairspray is about as cliche as a musical can get. Music and Lyrics? BARE, hands down. I understand if you don't like BARE (I've never seen it), you can't deny what it means and what it's done.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 12:57am

Let's not get into a HAIRSPRAY debate (although I will say that HAIRSPRAY revels in its own intentional, fairy-tale clicheness -- it's self-conscious and self-mocking, like Shakespeare often is in his Green World comedies).

I very much liked BARE but I recognize that it certainly wasn't revelatory theatre. But, like DGrant, I appreciated the show for its youth and energy. Besides the great cast, I also enjoyed the direction: Kristen Haggi's staging was very smooth and dynamic, even if she used the crucifix motif to death; the stage was always in movement and always interesting or even surprising.

[teth]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 1:54am

After hearing you guys talk about this musical for so long and after listening to the free soundtrack for so long, I finally saw a bootleg of this.

Although I agree that the storyline is very cliched, I don't think that can be a problem if they can make the production work. A lot of musicals/movies nowdays what-not are extremely cliched anyway. In addition, I think it is the strong performance from the cast that made the musical great. Although, for some reason, I was a bit overwhelmed by the fact that the entire musical was basically sung (one song right after another with no break ever for scene change or what-not), I think a few of the songs were great too.

On the bad side, I think the other characters' storylines were very underdeveloped. I know the story's focus is on the main three characters, but if they were going to talk about the fat girl's low self-esteem and the mother's unwillingness to accept her son's homosexuality, they should've expanded their storylines a tiny bit more.

[WatusiJenkins]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 11:21am

BARE was liked and disliked...equally. I believe a lot of fans fell in love with the ATA production because of it's cast...which they continue to follow around the city with every step they make-including taking a piss in an alley.

Then there are those who actually love the story-the music-can relate to it, or just are entertained and moved by it. It's concept...it's message.

BARE also had a following previous to ATA because of the LA production.

Could it be cliche....sure. Isn't 75% of theatre today cliche?
Does it have a stand alone song?..in my opinon-yes, a few. Does "Defying Gravity" get radio play? NO! No Broadway does-so whomever made that statement about a show needing a song to get radio play is way off-track.

The 11 song demo is was a move made by the producers. It does not reflect the sound and finished product of the show. The ATA production was FAR OFF from what the creators intended the show to be.

FACT: Dodgers made a lot of changes to the show at the ATA(as they did Dracula) that were against the intent of the creators. But when you're paying the money-you get your way.

FACT: There is no controversey with why the show didn't happen. The Catholic church wasnt involved, and NO one was worried about Bare making money. The Dodgers were (and still are) in bad shape financially. The other producers failed to make their have of the budget, and because of the state of Dodgers, they were not able to make up for it. They were dishonest to the creators by constantly postponing, until they could no longer hold back and told everyone the show had to be postponed indefinately. That simple.

FACT: The new production of BARE that was to open was DRASTICALLY different than the ATA. The direction was different, the book and score had been tweaked-many of the elements of BARE in LA were returned. The cast was 80% the same, but the additions were a great improvement. But that production never happened. SO, no one got to see BARE as it was intended by the creators. I am sure some people still wouldnt have liked it-it's not for everyone-and people can hate or dislike anything-it's relative. However,when speaking about the success of BARE-it's only the ATA production that anyone can comment on-a glorified workshop as someone mentioned above.

There will be a recording one day-which will reflect the show, at least musically, as best as intended.

FACT: It's NOT coming back to NYC. Please please accept that-and if you hear otherwise-quickly correct the messenger. It's not coming back. It's sad that it never got it's chance...but sometimes you have to just let something die. And hopefully the recording will be released sooner than later, and the show can be mounted on a professional level.

[Trisky]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 11:36am

which they continue to follow around the city with every step they make-including taking a piss in an alley.

*raises eyebrow*

Though I agree about the cast having a lot to do with why the ATA run succeeded I also think the bulk of that success was based on the show itself and the relatability of the characters. Bad shows happen to good performers all the time, but they're still bad shows. I don't think the good performers in Bare had that problem.

[magic8ball]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 12:02pm

WatusiJenkins, thanks for your input. I just have one question:

"FACT: It's NOT coming back to NYC. Please please accept that-and if you hear otherwise-quickly correct the messenger. It's not coming back. It's sad that it never got it's chance...but sometimes you have to just let something die. And hopefully the recording will be released sooner than later, and the show can be mounted on a professional level."

How can you say for certain that the show isn't coming back to NYC? The fanbase for the show here is extremely strong, and I don't think that "Bare" would be an unwise investment on behalf of ANY producer. I'm not saying that you're wrong, but I just wanted to know why you seem so sure of this... Everyone with any knowledge of the business aspects of the show that I've talked to has seemed optimistic about its future in the city.

[joniray]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 12:49pm

WatusiJenkins seems to know what he/she is talking about. I think it's safe to say that the person is very close to the authors who would be one of the best authorities on the subject. Anyone that you have talked to is more likely to be clinging on to hope that is simply unrealistic.

Regarding your comment "I don't think that "Bare" would be an unwise investment on behalf of ANY producer" - I think you need to realize that the only way this show would not lose it's entire investment is if it went to Broadway and was able to sell at least $350,000 worth of tickets a week (and probably even more than that). And it would need someone to put another four or five million on the line to get it there. The only reason why Dodgers and/or any other producer would want to mount this show Off-Broadway is to build word-of-mouth and momentum to justify a move to Broadway. Didn't the show have 20 or more performers involved (including, I believe it was six musicians)? That is way too many performers for an off-Broadway show – it’s just not affordable. They would have to completely sell out all their tickets at top price (no discounting) just to pay the bills, forget about a return on the investment. Is the "extremely strong" fan base you mentioned really enough to sell 3900 tickets a week at $65 (or more) a pop? Does the younger fan base of this show really have access to that much spare change?

In order for the producers of this show to not lose their shirts, they needed a big push in momentum that created a huge demand for tickets. The production at ATA needed across the board critical raves and/or huge word of mouth (like "Urinetown," "Avenue Q" and "Rent" had) in order to drive this show to an Off-Broadway run and then on to a Bway run. It didn't get either. Critics and audiences were both very mixed about the show. And that wasn't enough to create a large demand for the big buck tickets they would have needed to sell to pay back their investment.

And that's just reality. I certainly can't blame those who backed out when it was obvious that this show had little-to-no chance of making any further investment back. If you were looking at losing anywhere from 1 to 4 million, you might have done the same.

[MadeofGold]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 1:03pm

BARE was liked and disliked...equally. I believe a lot of fans fell in love with the ATA production because of it's cast...which they continue to follow around the city with every step they make-including taking a piss in an alley.

Yawn. WatusiJenkins, your schtick and personal vendetta against John Hill, et.al is getting so old. Why not try sticking to the topic at hand for once instead of adding in your sad little disgruntled opinion about the cast? That would be a nice change of pace for you. 2005 - new year, new you perhaps?

We can only hope.

[WatusiJenkins]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 1:19pm

Never said anything bad about the cast above. Just pointed out, in response to the different responses of the show being liked, disliked, that much of it being liked had to do with the cast-who have become mini-pop stars in certain people's view. Never said they weren't talented. There is no vendetta against John Hill lol...or anyone in the ATA cast. You shouldnt feel so obligated to defend performers against someone's opinion-you're not their press agent-you're just a fan.

Anyways-not trying to fight with anyone...just posting what I know because it pains me to see people specualte all over the place...speculation causes rumors sometimes which causes trouble.
And the only people who had an issue with my witty remark about following the cast around...is those who do. :)

[MadeofGold]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 1:24pm

You shouldnt feel so obligated to defend performers against someone's opinion-you're not their press agent-you're just a fan.

Not defending any performers here WatusiJenkins, but rather your little dig at the fans of the cast who continue to support them at non-Bare events.

And the only people who had an issue with my witty remark about following the cast around...is those who do. :)

Sigh. Why do I bother? I really can't figure it out. But I guess I'll add in a smile at the end to try and be cute since others are now trying that tactic. :)

Updated On: 1/13/05 at 01:24 PM

[Trisky]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 2:25pm

And the only people who had an issue with my witty remark about following the cast around...is those who do. :)

Damn, my invitation to watch them pee in an alley must have gotten lost in the mail. There's no love.

[MadeofGold]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 2:50pm

Damn, my invitation to watch them pee in an alley must have gotten lost in the mail. There's no love.

Thankfully I got mine. Michael will be peeing on the corner of 47th and 9th tonight. You bring the binoculars, I'll bring the chips.

Updated On: 1/13/05 at 02:50 PM

[TheGaIsSilent]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 2:52pm

It's nippy out there, kids. Bring some coffee.

[uncageg]

Posted: 1/13/05 at 3:07pm

Saw BARE last April. Loved it. Finally got to meet Damon after a year of chatting via e-mail. Great guy. I really hope to see the tweaked version of the show. But According to some things I have read, that won't be anytime soon. And that's ashame.