Is Wildhorn that bad?- Page 2

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 1:24pm

I don't think his music is really bad at all. He has a spiffy pop style without being overly so and still being very show tune. I keep forgetting that he wrote Pimpernel. I think both J&H and Pimp were VERY good, but not the best they do need some tweeks and J&H yes, does seem to be overly dramatic. But his music isn't bad. I think the problem really lies elsewhere, his music paired with a different script etc. Could have done wonders.

I haven't seen Dracula, but I happen to like the song "Life After Life" even though the lyrics strike me as a tad "silly" and "Please Don't Make Me Love You".

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 1:29pm

I like him. you have to remember the pre-Broadway tour of JEKYLL & HYDE was much better than what ended up on Broadway. even the post Broadway tour and the version being offered by MTI are worlds above what was done on Broadway. they just fu*ked up. no other way to say it. mainly on the fault of the producers. not the creative team.

THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL 3.0 is my favorite version of that show. Again the original Broadway incarnation was too flawed. Nan took it and reshaped it and really made an awesome piece out of it. had it opened on Broadway with that version I believe it would have faired better.

THE CIVIL WAR ... again... listen to the concept CD. brilliant. what was put on Broadway was not so much...

DRACULA... I saw it in La Jolla. It was fine. Broadway? oy... they changed too much. go back. what they had initially was much better... the song that was written for Jonathan... "Before the Summer Ends" is absolutly stunning. THAT should be the score's center piece. the rest of the lyrics? terrible. bring in Nan. she can help.

I HOPE that in the future he will learn from these mistakes and we'll have some really breathtaking revivals. Updated On: 2/15/05 at 01:29 PM

[WildhornFanatic]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:25pm

People hate Wildhorn because they don't feel the music and lyrics match up.

However, I feel DRACULA is his best attempt at this.

One reason why his music and lyrics possibly don't match up is because Wildhorn composes the music and hands it to the lyricist who then puts words to the melody. Every other composer works the other way.

- Michael

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 3:26pm

Then he needs to find a lyricist that can work his way so that the music and the lyrics match.

[jackson992]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 5:04pm

I think he is great. Jekyll & Hyde, Scarlet Pimpernel & Frankenstein were all superb shows.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 5:11pm

::points to username and my other threads::

I don't think he's that bad...in fact he's pretty good...

I think it's an acquired taste - either you like it or you don't....

And while I like him, DO NOT compare his work to Les Mis...Les Mis is a once in a lifetime show that could never be made better....

jackson? Do you mean Dracula? His Frankenstein isn't out yet...

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 5:42pm

One reason why his music and lyrics possibly don't match up is because Wildhorn composes the music and hands it to the lyricist who then puts words to the melody. Every other composer works the other way.

this is not true. Andrew Lloyd Webber usually writes the music first and hands it to the lyricist. CATS was his first attempt at trying the other way around. every composer is different, of course, but to say none of them hand a melody to a lyricist is ridiculous. some of the best songs have been written that way. including "Memory". the melody came first. then came Don Black's "Good Times", then Tim Rice's version of "Memory" and then the Trevor Nun version of the lyrics which was based on Eliot's "Rhapsody On A Windy Night" which is the version used in the show. Jonathan Larson wrote several different version of "One Song Glory" before finally settling on the current version. but the music was always the same. in fact, I guess a lot of the time the music is what comes first so that statement was just completely false. sorry.

[mominator]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 5:50pm

The one thing (well for me at least) that drives me batty (sorry just had to!) he writes earworms!

[My Fair Lady]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 7:09pm

I hated Dracula, but I like "Once Upon a Dream" from Jekyll and Hyde.

[PleaseChangeMe]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 7:16pm

I used it as an insult. I dispise Les Mis, and just because it ran forever and a day doesn't mean a thing. Cats ran a long time. Doesn't mean the show itself is good and well made.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 7:25pm

"Cats ran a long time. Doesn't mean the show itself is good and well made."

It doesn't mean it sucked, either. A Chorus Line ran a long tine, too. How do you feel about that one? Millions worldwide loved Cats for over a decade. Lloyd Webber must have done something right. Cats was unconventionally, but not necessarily poorly, constructed and was incredibly innovative for its time. Not only that, but it endured and became legendary. That can't be so easily dismissed. Too bad more musicals can't suck that much.

Sorry you despised Les Mis. I found it to be the pinnacle of contemporary (post Golden Age) musical theatre and have found few since its opening that have come close to it.

Updated On: 2/15/05 at 07:25 PM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 7:34pm

Enjoy his music immensely

[Yonah]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 9:37pm

I actually love Frank Wildhorn's music. I saw Dracula six times while it was on Bradway. I always get the feeling when seeing/listening to his shows that they *could* be great, with just a little revision. Okay, in some cases a lot of revision. However, there's something about his shows that keeps me coming back for more.

Updated On: 2/15/05 at 09:37 PM

[Justice]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 9:40pm

Does anyone notice that in the majority of Wildhorn's songs, the last five notes are the same???

(If you don't believe me, listen to "Once Upon a Dream". "Love Has Come of Age", "When I Look at You", etc.) it's almost like that is the only way he knows how to end a ballad...

[ljay889]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 9:43pm

I must say "In His Eyes", is a beautiful song. I love that one.

[WildhornFanatic]

Posted: 2/15/05 at 10:25pm

Sorry CatsNYRevival - I didn't know that.

- Michael

[phantom_tenor]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 4:53am

i find wildhorn's songs to be overwritten to some extent, but i still think he's a great composer. God knows how many times i've sung "This Is the Moment" for auditions.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 9:59am

Justice - Those same five notes appear at the end of hundreds of musical theatre songs. Re Mi Do Re Do is just another variation of Do Do Re Do or Do Do Ti Do. Probably the most common endings to any song in the history of music. The same could be said of Somewhere That's Green and Part of Your World by Alan Menken starting with "Out of the sea..."/"Far from Skid Row...".

[GreenGirl]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:07pm

As a native Houstonian, I had the opportunity to see a few versions of J&H years before it toured. It was absolutely phenomenal. I must agree with Mister Matt and CATSNYrevival that the show was MUCH better before it landed on B'way. I was horrified when I saw the much-changed version. Not only were some of the best songs cut, but the entire production had morphed into this hideous, cheap, gothic "thriller". The lighting, staging, even costumes were altered (need I mention lousy sound effects were added???) God, I wanted to cry. BUT that production DID reintroduce the bit about Jekyll's father (which I had seen originally in '89??), and I thought that was at least good bc it demonstrated some of his motivations. *sigh* All in all, my theory is that the show initially attracted a much younger audience, and changes were made to appeal to that demographic (one that probably didn't have a lot of theatrical/cultural knowledge), so they added flash and cheese. Coupled with 'pop-appropriate' songs, the producers found a model that worked. To hear lost songs (including "Bring on the Men" & "Bitch") and the best cast, check out the '94 recording.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy Wildhorn's music. In fact, I think that some aspects of his style may accurately reflect growing trends on Broadway and have created new audiences. The melodies can be simple, but are very effective. I think what makes some of his songs sound SO "pop-py" is the minimal accompaniment (and repetition) that is similar to so many popular songs on the radio. It's not bad, just different.

I was too scared of wasting money to see Dracula (I felt totally betrayed after J&H), but I did see SP on B'way (after hearing the recording). While I couldn't say that it was a great overall production/show, I really enjoyed it (okay, I loved Douglas Sills' performance). The music was wonderful, but the book fell apart in places. And yet, again, they cut one of the best pieces! (So it would seem, Yonah, that sometimes it's the revisions that cause the trouble!)

Civil War was a wonderful idea, and has some good pieces, but just didn't work on the stage.

Linda is a goddess. Frank would never hold her back (or in his back pocket....)

No, Wildhorn's music is not really that bad. It's different, and his shows have some flaws (often because producers have too much input). It's easy for Broadway snobs (and, yes, I'm one, too) to put down his music because it's not as...sophisticated or musically complex as other shows, but it is completely unfair to write him off as a lousy composer.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:12pm

Yes, a lot of his music sounds the same and a lot of the lyrics thorughout his many shows are the same.

PleaseChangeMe: I used it as an insult. I dispise Les Mis, and just because it ran forever and a day doesn't mean a thing. Cats ran a long time. Doesn't mean the show itself is good and well made.

Your opinions are no longer welcome!

Actually a show running for a long time DOES mean something. It means people are still paying money to see it. That means people like the show enough to see it again or have heard good things about it and want to see it.

For the record, it is IMPOSSIBLE to despise Les Mis. Maybe you don't like some things about it, but DESPISE it? Impossible.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:32pm

A lot of his lyrics are the same? Did all the various lyricists get together and plan that? LOL

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:36pm

I think until recently is was widely thought in the industry that Eder only does Wildhorn so why bother approaching her with roles? Very unfortunate - I think the time has come and gone for Linda to be a true Broadway diva. I am a big fan and would love to see her in another book musical, but as the years go on, the chances of this happening grows smaller and smaller.

[jackson992]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:41pm

omg how could anyone depside Les Mis one of the best musicals ever written.


Re: Frankenstein I was thinking of the other version which I really enjoy heh

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:48pm

I think JEKYLL AND HYDE has a pretty good score, but so is THE CIVIL WAR. I despised CRAPULA's score, but his score for THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL is among my favorite score of any show - I think it's beautiful.

[jim coleman]

Posted: 2/16/05 at 2:49pm

There was another Jekyll and Hyde and it has played regionally and at the Paper Mill Playhouse. I have done it in 3 productions. It was composed by Phil Hall, and the music is lovely. The book and lyrics are by Leslie Eberhard and David Levy. It was directed by Phillip McKinley. The show is good but needs work. Personally, I would like to do it with a different director with a little heart. Phillip did a good job, but I felt it was cold. The best cast included: Mark Kudisch, Richard White, Judy McLane, and Glory Crampton.