Jeff Loeffelholz suicide news coverage- Page 3

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 2:21pm

I guess what we know is that he felt victimized enough to file a complaint with Equity (I think I read that in the 1010WINS report), and then less than a week later, took his life. His partner is not the kind of person to blindly point a finger at someone unless he really felt like Jeff's actions were a result of what happened. I guess maybe the truth lies with Jeff, unless there are other witnesses who felt like he had been harassed. I doubt if production wanted him out and they're the ones funding the investigation that any witness accounts in Jeff's favor will be disclosed. This isn't about bringing Jeff back. It's not possible. It's about making sure no one else ever feels like he did because of someone else's actions that are unethical and against Equity policy for a reason. If someone came up to Jeff on the street and said the same things to him, of course he wouldn't have been this distraught over it. It's because of the position of power Bobbie and Stifelman had over him. He probably felt like it would never stop. And he probably felt like quitting wasn't an option either.

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 02:21 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 2:39pm

MosaicOwl said: "I doubt if production wanted him out and they're the ones funding the investigation that any witness accounts in Jeff's favor will be disclosed. This isn't about bringing Jeff back. It's not possible. It's about making sure no one else ever feels like he did because of someone else's actions that are unethical and against Equity policy for a reason."

You can't really be that naive. This "investigation" is about shielding themselves from any potential liability. 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 2:59pm

I still am really confused by what people are meaning when they say “potential liability” - for what? Jeff’s death? Wrongful Termination? I think it’s important to continue to have discussions about what is and what isn’t appropriate behavior in the work place and especially as pertains to “bullying” someone into quitting. But nobody is actually insiniuating that Walter Bobbie and this musical director are responsible for this man’s death are they? I continue to have great sympathy for Jeff and his inner circle but there has to be some personal accountability here too. Nobody forces anyone to commit suicide. And it’s a huge disservice to those dealing with depression or suicide to insinuate people should be held responsible for another persons decision to end their own life.

[bk]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 3:09pm

MosaicOwl said: "I guess what we know is that he felt victimized enough to file a complaint with Equity (I think I read that in the 1010WINS report), and then less than a week later, took his life. His partner is not the kind of person to blindly point a finger at someone unless he really felt like Jeff's actions were a result of what happened. I guess maybe the truth lies with Jeff, unless there are other witnesses who felt like he had been harassed. I doubt if production wanted him out and they're the ones funding the investigation that any witness accounts in Jeff's favor will be disclosed. This isn't about bringing Jeff back. It's not possible. It's about making sure no one else ever feels like he did because of someone else's actions that are unethical and against Equity policy for a reason. If someone came up to Jeff on the street and said the same things to him, of course he wouldn't have been this distraught over it. It's because of the position of power Bobbie and Stifelman had over him. He probably felt like it would never stop. And he probably felt like quitting wasn't an option either."

Please post a link to the information that he filed a complaint with Equity.  No one else is reporting that that I can see, including what I read of the original blogger.  You seem to have a stake in this, what with signing up just two days ago - are you the blogger?  Friend of the actor?  Enemy of the production?  

As someone else points out we're getting one side of a story from one source, the source all these news outlets were directed (by you?) to go to for the story.  I'm curious to see how this plays out with the production.  It's tragic when anyone takes their own life, but this single incident causing that?  I need to hear more.

Finally, any producer who gives an understudy or any cast member other than perhaps a star or co-star a run-of-play contract is an idiot.  Why would you do that?  Ever?  I remember seeing The Fantasticks at Sullivan Street about four or five years before it closed.  The two gentlemen playing the fathers were awful - bored out of their minds, no energy, no acting, no nothing.  I talked to Harvey Schmidt about it and he told me they'd wanted to be rid of these guys for YEARS - YEARS - but whatever off-B'way contract were on they could not be let go and had to quit themselves, which they had no intention of ever doing.  

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 3:15pm

Bk,
She has said previously that she is Jeff’s cousin.

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 3:41pm

Bk,

I am not the blogger. I have not personally talked to anybody in the media, except that I have informed news outlets here in Oklahoma where the rest of Jeff's family and I live. I only informed them of the situation and urged them to investigate for themselves. Please find the link to the coverage I saw concerning Jeff's filing of the incident to Equity at the bottom of this post. It is also easily found in a Google search, I'm surprised you didn't see it. It is also in the very first post in this thread. I'm sorry you are so angered by my investment in the events surrounding my cousin's sudden,untimely, and tragic death. News outlets are consisting of professionals, who in their training are taught to seek every source, every side. The news story I am citing at the bottom includes a statement from the show's producers and also Equity. The PageSix story has a statement from the Weissler's lawyer and Bobbie himself, which can also be found with a simple Google search. If you are bothered by my discussion of this, please leave the thread and you will not be bothered anymore. It is your own choice to return here. I am not here to argue. I am here to ponder openly, to ask questions, to look for truth, to spread awareness. It is within my rights to so so. I have made no allegations that are not derived from credible sources. If the mods here don't want me around, they will block me. Is there anything else you'd like to ask?

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/loved-ones-broadway-actor-claim-bullying-prompted-suicide

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 3:53pm

QueenAlice said: "I still am really confused by what people are meaning when they say “potential liability” - for what? Jeff’s death? Wrongful Termination? I think it’s important to continue to have discussions about what is and what isn’t appropriate behavior in the work place and especially as pertains to “bullying” someone into quitting. But nobody is actually insiniuating that Walter Bobbie and this musical director are responsible for this man’s death are they? I continue to have great sympathy for Jeff and his inner circle but there has to be some personal accountability here too. Nobody forces anyone to commit suicide. And it’s a huge disservice to those dealing with depression or suicide to insinuate people should be held responsible for another persons decision to end their own life.

I am in no way trying to say that Jeff's suicide is entirely (or mostly, or even fractionally) Bobbie or Stifelman's fault. I'm not trying to bring legal action against them, although I'm pretty sure that with enough evidence (of which there is not) Jeff's family could file a wrongful death suit if we wanted. I cannot speak for the rest of the family, but I DO NOT WANT THAT. It's not my intention. I'm trying to understand what happened and trying to get the word out so that nobody else suffers from harassment.

"

 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 3:56pm

I've apparently caused turmoil in the thread. I'll gladly leave.

[BIG BALONEY]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 4:47pm

If all this is true then those respondible should never be employed in a theatre again.

[SweetLips22]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 5:47pm

I think the situation goes a little deeper than that of time spent at one unpleasant rehearsal. We have no idea of Mr Loeffelholzs' attitude that day or of verbal interaction in the room.

The Whatever Theatre[edit.] had been his home for 22years and show and management supposed family, some you like and some you fight with so there must have been a certain amount of trust and familiarity in that situation, at least to start with.

I trust for his family and loved ones that the truth between a difficult rehearsal and suicide a week later can be honestly revealed and not be just like cellophane--nobody knows you're there.

Edited due to a response.

Updated On: 7/7/18 at 05:47 PM

[haterobics]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 5:58pm

MosaicOwl said: "I've apparently caused turmoil in the thread."

Turmoil is nothing new around here.

[NoName3]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 8:40pm

MosaicOwl said: "I've apparently caused turmoil in the thread. I'll gladly leave."

Don't you dare.

 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 7/7/18 at 8:52pm

Well, Chicago hasn't been at the Ambassador all 22 years. But that's getting off topic.

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 12:29am

MosaicOwl said: "I've apparently caused turmoil in the thread. I'll gladly leave. "

No we love your messages please stay and enlighten us.

[Lousy]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 12:32am

I'm flabbergasted that some people in this thread are giving a grieving family a hard time. I'm confused why some are so quick to jump to the defence of this production through vague and meaningless responses with the sentiments based on 'who knows what the attitudes were like' or 'they were just maintaining the production'. Let's wait and see what further details arise before either side tries to play devil's advocate.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 12:46am

MosaicOwl said: "Bk,

I am not the blogger. I have not personally talked to anybody in the media, except that I have informed news outlets here in Oklahoma where the rest of Jeff's family and I live. I only informed them of the situation and urged them to investigate for themselves. Please find the link to the coverage I saw concerning Jeff's filing of the incident to Equity at the bottom of this post. It is also easily found in a Google search, I'm surprised you didn't see it. It is also in the very first post in this thread. I'm sorry you are so angered by my investment in the events surrounding my cousin's sudden,untimely, and tragic death. News outlets are consisting of professionals, who in their training are taught to seek every source, every side. The news story I am citing at the bottom includes a statement from the show's producers and also Equity. The PageSix story has a statement from the Weissler's lawyer and Bobbie himself, which can also be found with a simple Google search. If you are bothered by my discussion of this, please leave the thread and you will not be bothered anymore. It is your own choice to return here. I am not here to argue. I am here to ponder openly, to ask questions, to look for truth, to spread awareness. It is within my rights to so so. I have made no allegations that are not derived from credible sources. If the mods here don't want me around, they will block me. Is there anything else you'd like to ask?

https://1010wins.radio.com/articles/loved-ones-broadway-actor-claim-bullying-prompted-suicide"

Thanks for the link.  I went to the link when I saw it.  But then you brought up that in that link that a report had been filed with AEA, which I didn't remember reading because the link you provided as well as every single other link you provided is all getting the story from the same exact source and therefore carries the same exact information. 

I'm not angered by you or anyone else here.  I think my point was pretty clear - if you said you were his cousin in the first post I missed that, too - apologies if that was there.  BUT, my point was I'm not jumping to the conclusions so many here are - I'm waiting to get more information because, as I said, I find it strange that this one single incident would cause distress so terrible that it would cause someone to take his life.  I certainly was not taking the side of the production or anyone involved with it as the production is meaningless to me other than I've had many friends in the show over the years - it happens to be the luckiest production in the history of B'way - I couldn't stand it when it opened and I can't stand it now.

Again, I'll wait to see how this plays out.

 

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 12:46 AM

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 12:53am

Jordan Catalano said: "Bk,
She has said previously that she is Jeff’s cousin."

Really?  Where?  I just read through every one of the Mosaic Owl posts and saw that nowhere - I was trying to read carefully - didn't see it - point me to it, please.

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 1:08am

bk: MosaicOwl's self-identifying post is in a BWW thread that predates this one: 'Will Broadway dim the lights for 'Chicago' musical Jeff Loeffelholz?' It's Post No. 15, by MosaicOwl (July 6 ) .

I am Jeff’s cousin. My grandmother is his aunt, my mother is his first cousin, I am his second cousin. The family is devastated. What is also devastating is that because almost all of Jeff's family is in Oklahoma and things are trying to be “swept under the rug” about his suicide by some people in your community, many of us are still confused about the circumstances surrounding his victimization and subsequent suicide. Yes, I said “victimization and subsequent suicide.” His partner of 33 years has been trying to give us the facts, but as you can imagine he has a lot going on. We are left to gather facts ourselves and help each other understand. Jeff was not on social media and our only contact with him aside from his personal cell phone was through his partner. I have seen many posts on various sites downplaying the role of bullying and harassment by people in power roles of his production. Things have been posted to the degree of “directors do things like this all the time to get the performance they want,” and “if he took his own life because of a little criticism then he clearly had other issues.” We are his family. We know there were no other issues. It is highly unethical for anyone in a position of power to use the privileges of their power to humiliate or harass someone (in any profession). Things are a bit blurry when it comes to wanting to inspire better performance, but what I have learned (from several sources) is that was not the motivation of those bullying Jeff. The people responsible for the way he was being treated were clearly trying to harass and humiliate him into quitting. The rules of the contract were clear, if the production wished to end the contract, they were bound to buy Jeff out of the contract for a specific sum (nothing outrageous). They could fire him with a justifiable reason, but they had none. He had zero complaints in his file. Instead, those in power used that power to try and force him to quit, which is not only unethical, but against Equity regulations. ROP (run-of-play) contracts may seem unfair and outdated, but that doesn't matter because IT IS A CONTRACT. All people involved have to follow the terms, and any attempt to gain something (trying to get Jeff to quit) by means not outlined in the contract (blatant harassment instead of buying him out) is unethical and the one of the reasons Equity has a policy against harassment in the first place. If a child or young adult was being harassed and took their own life, you would be outraged. Just because Jeff was an adult doesn't mean that he should have “had thicker skin" or “just taken it like a man”. Bullying is still bullying. He felt trapped. He felt like there was no other choice. Shame on anyone who made him feel like that through unethical harassment and humiliation, just to save a little money.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 01:08 AM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 1:15am

This man took his life because of the treatment he received from assholes in this production company who took it upon themselves to treat him abhorrently and get him to quit.

There is a place in fresh hell for the people that did this.

I hope they never have another day of peace in their lives.

I hope that every day of their lives they look in the mirror and see themselves for the POS that they are.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 01:15 AM

[Anakela]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 1:29am

bk said: "
EDIT: There is nothing in the article you posted that says anything about him filing a report to AEA, so I was correct in not remembering reading it. So, you misremembered that bit and therefore that bit of info is completely unfounded."

De La Cruz says Loeffelholz reported the incident to his union, Actors' Equity Association, which promised to investigate.

 

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 1:53am

Wayman, then it would have been nice to have been referred to that thread, which I haven't seen.  In THIS thread there is no such information.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 1:55am

Anakela said: "bk said: "
EDIT: There is nothing in the article you posted that says anything about him filing a report to AEA, so I was correct in not remembering reading it. So, you misremembered that bit and therefore that bit of info is completely unfounded."

De La Cruz says Loeffelholz reported the incident to his union, Actors' Equity Association, which promised to investigate.

"

Hmmm, and I was trying to read it very carefully.  But if he reported it to AEA I'm a little baffled why AEA is being disingenuous about that.  Wouldn't they at least acknowledge that report?  

[Wayman_Wong]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 3:20am

The ''Will Broadway dim its lights for Jeff Loeffelholz?'' thread was begun Thursday early morning, and was the primary thread for any news about his death. It also seems to have marked MosaicOwl's first appearance identifying themselves as Jeff's cousin. THIS thread, about the suicide news coverage, wasn't begun until Friday night. And MosaicOwl started it to call attention to the media (like 1010 WINS), which were starting to cover the suicide aspects of it. Obviously, if you had missed the earlier thread, there's no way to know about MosaicOwl's initial identifying post. But this thread seemed to be a continuation of the Loeffelholz story, which is why MosaicOwl was known to many already here. Hope that helps.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 3:49am

Wayman_Wong said: "The ''Will Broadway dim its lights for Jeff Loeffelholz?'' thread was begun Thursday early morning, and was the primary thread for any news about his death. It also seems to have marked MosaicOwl's first appearance identifying themselves as Jeff's cousin. THIS thread, about the suicide news coverage, wasn't begun until Friday night. And MosaicOwl started it to call attention to the media (like 1010 WINS), which were starting to cover the suicide aspects of it. Obviously, if you had missed the earlier thread, there's no way to know about MosaicOwl's initial identifying post. But this thread seemed to be a continuation of the Loeffelholz story, which is why MosaicOwl was known to many already here. Hope that helps."

It does.

 

[Gizmo6]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 3:55am

QueenAlice said: "I still am really confused by what people are meaning when they say “potential liability” - for what? Jeff’s death? Wrongful Termination? Nobody forces anyone to commit suicide. And it’s a huge disservice to those dealing with depression or suicide to insinuate people should be held responsible for another persons decision to end their own life.

"

As someone very involved in mental health support I can confirm people should be held accountable for the role they play in suicide. Obvious I'm not speculating on Mr Loeffelholz's prior mental health status. 

However, People/ the world is selfish and is not set up for people with mental health conditions. If people were kinder and more supportive then suicide rates would be lower. Recently a case near home where a person was finding it very difficult to access social housing, the torture the authorities put the person through resulted in her suicide. They should be held accountable, perhaps not jail but lose their jobs and community service. 

I don't care what box ticking exercises you have to do, what contracts you need to get cast members out of, we are all human and deserve to be treated with dignity. 

From what I can access from the outside Jeff's death was avoidable if the actions of others were different. If that's the case then yes, people have to take responsibility for the role they played in someone else suicide.

Too often we turn our backs on people who commit suicide, relinquish all responsibilities when in fact all of us are complicit in a culture that allows suicide and blames the victim.