The Addams Family Kicking Out Mermaid?- Page 4

[NewYorkYankee2006]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 4:40pm

i hope the addams family dont kick out the little mermaid. there is no way disney theatrical will let another disney show be flopped like tarzan.

[MirrorBride]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 5:42pm

I highly doubt TLM would close. If anything, the show would be moved. The money income is too high for a show closing at such an early time, I think. If any Disney shows were to close, I think Lion King or Poppins would close before Mermaid. In my opinion and observation, Poppins and Mermaid get the most publicity of them all. When you have little girls, you think they would rather see Mermaid, Poppins, or Lion King? Don't get me wrong, Lion King is a great show...it just doesn't seem as appealing to children in the same way Mermaid does. Mary Poppins seems to be this way also.

I think if this were true, I think Lion King would close in the Broadway theatre (still Vegas and tours) and TLM would take the Minskoff Theatre. Lion King is now in Vegas anyway. Or Mary Poppins would close and continue the National Tour and Mermaid would move to the New Amsterdam Theatre.

Whatever the case, rumor or not, it is still quite some time away. Whatever happens, I HIGHLY doubt Mermaid would close so soon.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 7:43pm

"Whatever the case, rumor or not, it is still quite some time away. Whatever happens, I HIGHLY doubt Mermaid would close so soon."

According to rumors, if it doesn't improve it'll be gone in September. And Disney will NOT close The Lion King. It still is a practical sell-out. Some posters here are acting as if moving the show is easy. Unlike touring shows, the sets and equipment are NOT designed to be moved easily, and will cost a fortune. The sets for The Little Mermaid are already too big for the theater it's in now, so to occupy another theater would be cost prhibitive. The Lion King at the Miskoff is using a modified version of the tour set...which allowed for an easy transfer. I don't believe much of the Broadway set made it's way to the Minskoff.

And as I've said above, the original link shows that group tickets to The Addams Family go as far back as Row N in the Rear Mezzanine. The ONLY Nederlander house with a row N in a Rear Mezzanine is The Lunt Fontanne.

[Robert Taylor]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 7:50pm

Fosse, what do you mean by doing "better"?

Even if its nut is as high as 600K, there has barely been a week when it missed that (even in weeks tourists aren't plentiful) and on holiday weeks it easily breaks a million. It's already made 15 million this year and made 49 million last year. Even its upfront costs were extremely high it must be close to breaking even and then everything will be profit after that. Oh yeah, and we are about three weeks away from peak tourist season.

So how exactly is it underperforming? And what rumors? The ones by the same people who said "Mermaid" would close after three months and be replaced by "B&TB" again? Or has TooDarnHot showed up again? I love how people can use the word "rumors" to act like it's a given fact. Sigh.
Updated On: 6/1/09 at 07:50 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 8:02pm

"Even if its nut is as high as 600K"

I'd bet the house it's higher than that. And don't forget all the improvements (and possible OSHA fines) they had to make after the Adrian Bailey incident, which weren't cheap. Not to mention any legal costs associated with the production come out of the show's operating budget. Disney Theatricals is pretty much on its own...The Walt Disney Company barely acknowledges it exists because its profit margins are extremely low in comparison to its other divisions. If you think TWDC is going to divert money to Disney Theatricals to stop a show closing for appearances-sake than you are delusional.

But I digress. It doesn't matter if they are making money or not. I personally don't know nor do I care how much it costs to run the show. But as I've said twice now, the ONLY Nederlander theater with a row N in the Rear Mezzanine is the Lunt Fontanne. So assuming group tickets are being sold, that's where it is going. I even looked at alternate ways of selling tickets...i.e. selling only up through row M in the Rear Mezzanine in case the show can and ddoes get moved to a different theater. But the seating numbers at the Lunt don't match any other theater's rear mezz other than the Gershwin, and it's a safe bet that Wicked won't be going anywhere any time soon.

[Here I Am]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 8:03pm

My friend who belongs to the Drama League said it's going into the Lunt. I dunno...

It's about time they got rid of the Mermaid. Updated On: 6/1/09 at 08:03 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 8:05pm

The Lion King at the Miskoff is using a modified version of the tour set...which allowed for an easy transfer. I don't believe much of the Broadway set made it's way to the Minskoff.

Actually, that's not true. There was an article around the time of the transfer, explaining that not one bit of the set, including Pride Rock rising up from the floor, would be changed. Pride Rock on tour swings in from the wings. It still rises up (very impressively, I might add) on Broadway.

I agree, however, that The Little Mermaid is not going to transfer, not when it hasn't made back its investment, and not making a consistent profit.

[Robert Taylor]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 8:15pm

Okay Fosse76, let's say it's 700K. It's still hitting it most weeks. And with two out of three shows recouped on Broadway and huge successful tours, I think saying that its profit margins are extremely low and that Disney barely acknowledges it exists is a huge generalization with nothing to validate your claim. And I'm still waiting to hear where you heard these rumors of the show doing badly.

And since when does it not matter whether a show is successful financially or not? Isn't that...um...the point of producing shows? That statement makes zero sense for so many reasons that I'll just sit back and stare at it for a nice, long while.

I keep throwing actual facts at you with figures and money involved and you keep throwing back the same one fact along with lots of generalizations, rumors and false claims. And I'm certain you'll do it again after I post this.

Here's a general question about the original post. It cites a certain amount of seats that seems to match the Lunt. Are there larger balconies at other Nederlander theatres, like the Nederlander, and because the producers aren't sure if Guys and Dolls will be closed, they only sell a certain number of seats because they don't want to have to refund tickets later? I have no idea if this is feasible or not, it's just a thought. Updated On: 6/1/09 at 08:15 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 8:21pm

Here's a general question about the original post. It cites a certain amount of seats that seems to match the Lunt. Are there larger balconies at other Nederlander theatres, like the Nederlander, and because the producers aren't sure if Guys and Dolls will be closed, they only sell a certain number of seats because they don't want to have to refund tickets later? I have no idea if this is feasible or not, it's just a thought.

The Nederlander is much smaller than the Lunt. Both seat wise and in terms of space onstage and offstage. I doubt a show with a large physical production like Mermaid (or The Addams Family, based on what we know) would be able to fit there.

This whole business of a Little Mermaid "transfer", with another show imminently moving in, feels just like Legally Blonde/West Side Story last year. Some people won't believe it until it actually happens.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 9:04pm

Pride Rock is definetly scaled down from the New Amsterdam no matter what any article said.
Just look at it.

[BroadwayBound062]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 9:11pm

If TLM does well this summer it might have a chance. I doubt they would close The Lion King to move TLM in especially when The Lion King is grossing over a million dollars.

[steven22]

Posted: 6/1/09 at 9:12pm

are there pictures from the new amsterdam and now the minskoff of pride rock?

i saw it at the new amsterdam and remember pride rock raising out of the stage and it being so huge and cool!

[winston89]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 12:17am

I have a feeling that the actual set piece of Pride Rock that is used in The Minskoff is the same one that was used at The New Amsterdam. However, I can see why some might think that it is scaled down.

I have only seen the show twice since it has been open. Once at the New Amsterdam and once at The Minskoff. And, I don't have a clear picture of it to be able to do a mental comparison.

With that said, you have to realize one thing. That's the realization of the fact that Disney is not the only producer of Mary Poppins. The show is billed as Disney and Cameron Mackintosh Present Mary Poppins rather then Disney presents Mary Poppins. And, If I remember correctly they chose The New Amsterdam over The Minskoff due to the fact that that was the theatre that Cameron wanted Poppins to be in for the Broadway production.

[ActingIsLovee]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 12:57am

this may be a stupid question, but has Mary Poppins recouped?

[Robert Taylor]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 1:03am

Not a stupid question at all. Poppins recouped pretty quickly, mostly because they were essentially just moving an already-existing production from England. There was little development costs as a result.

[MirrorBride]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 1:14am

If Addams moved into the Lunt, that doesn't necessarily mean Mermaid would close. I mean really, sure it's hard to move sets, but they would find a way if they really wanted to keep it open. I would also like to know where these rumors are coming from.

I've heard Mermaid is doing wonderfully. Sure, people have doubts about the show...but from what I've heard they also did when B&B arrived on Broadway.

Think about what we're really basing this off of. It's a rumor based off of a ticket site.

[Pianolin717]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 1:15am

If Mermaid did close, I'm sure they would tour it. I mean, that would be the sensible thing to do. It would probably do well on the road.

[MirrorBride]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 1:26am

I'm sure they would tour it if worst came to worst. I just really don't see this show completely ending anytime soon. It seems to be doing way too well.

Maybe they would tour and then go back to Broadway?

Updated On: 6/2/09 at 01:26 AM

[winston89]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 9:17am

They wouldn't tour and then go back to Broadway. And, besides, it has been said before that the touring sets of a show are different then the Broadway sets of a given show. This is because the sets for a Broadway production are made to fit that particular theatre rather then being small enough that any theatre can fit the sets.


Truth be told, the reason why they chose that opera house in Denver as the place to house the out of town try out of Mermaid was because it's stage specifications were very similar to those of the Lunt.

Also, MirriorBride, you have to realize that when Disney closed Beauty And The Beast to replace it with Mermaid they were taking a risk. And, I think that it is a risk that isn't working out in their favor. Hell, they have to go through the bank of Disney Channel celebrities to stunt cast the show pretty early on. I know that this is something that they did with Beauty and The Beast. But, to bring in someone like Drew Seeley pretty early on in the shows run? That doesn't sound like the best of signs for me.

[jagfkb]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 10:59am

The only theatre I could see working for Mermaid right now is the Marquis, maybe the Simon. Either way, Mermaid isn't sticking around much longer.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 11:26am

"Here's a general question about the original post. It cites a certain amount of seats that seems to match the Lunt. Are there larger balconies at other Nederlander theatres, like the Nederlander, and because the producers aren't sure if Guys and Dolls will be closed, they only sell a certain number of seats because they don't want to have to refund tickets later? I have no idea if this is feasible or not, it's just a thought."

I looked at it. While there are theaters with larger mezzanines (The Simon goes back to Row U), none of them are sectioned as Rear Mezzanines. When I tried to postulate that they could sell tickets in rows that matched other theaters, it didn't work because of the way seats were numbered. The Lunt doesn't have a Center Mez...it divides it into four sections, with odds on house left and evens on house right. The other theaters have a center section...and now that I'm looking, the Gershwin doesn't match the seating either. The Nederlander has double-lettered ows in the Mezzanine. So BASED on the rumors that Little Mermaid is closing and the Group Sales Seats being Sold, Addams Family can ONLY go into te Lunt.

This is assuming that, of course, the Group Sales tickets that were linked to are in fact being sold with those seat descriptions.

"Okay Fosse76, let's say it's 700K. It's still hitting it most weeks. And with two out of three shows recouped on Broadway and huge successful tours, I think saying that its profit margins are extremely low and that Disney barely acknowledges it exists is a huge generalization with nothing to validate your claim. And I'm still waiting to hear where you heard these rumors of the show doing badly."

Unlike you, I have connections to The Disney Corporation. Other than a few ads here and there in the parks and on the website, Disney as a whole doesn't pay much attention to Disney Theatricals because the shows, no matter how successful, don't pull in anywhere near the amount of money ANY of their other divisions make. Just look at their financial reports. In general, Disney allows each Division head to run their division with little interference. These aren't the days where Walt oversaw everything.

And the rumors come from my contact at Disney Theatricals.

"And since when does it not matter whether a show is successful financially or not? Isn't that...um...the point of producing shows? That statement makes zero sense for so many reasons that I'll just sit back and stare at it for a nice, long while."

I meant it doesn't matter TO ME whether the show is profitable or not. I looked at the facts. They point to the Lunt no matter what scenario you look at.

"I keep throwing actual facts at you with figures and money involved and you keep throwing back the same one fact along with lots of generalizations, rumors and false claims. And I'm certain you'll do it again after I post this."

You throw speculation, not facts. You don't know what The Little Mermaid's operating costs are, but claim that the show is turning a profit. For all you know, the show could be costing $800,000 a week. No one knows, but you repeatedly state that the show is making money without any supporting facts. It's been open well over a year and a half and has yet to recoup, which means it is barely making money to cover costs. Even if everything I say is not factually supported by public knowledge it doesn't change the FACT the group sales tickets being sold match the LUNT and ONLY the Lunt.

[MirrorBride]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 3:08pm

They wouldn't tour and then go back to Broadway. And, besides, it has been said before that the touring sets of a show are different then the Broadway sets of a given show. This is because the sets for a Broadway production are made to fit that particular theatre rather then being small enough that any theatre can fit the sets.

Truth be told, the reason why they chose that opera house in Denver as the place to house the out of town try out of Mermaid was because it's stage specifications were very similar to those of the Lunt.

Would the Lunt's owners really take the chance of a new show doing worse? There is a possibility Addams wouldn't do well. I guess that's my whole confusion about it. I can't see why they would give up Mermaid for Addams.

Sets can be changed to fit other theatres, so they could just simply move the show to one of close size and proximity. All I am saying is that there are other options than black and white, closing and staying open. Even if it did close, it could reopen on West End or something.

Also, MirriorBride, you have to realize that when Disney closed Beauty And The Beast to replace it with Mermaid they were taking a risk. And, I think that it is a risk that isn't working out in their favor. Hell, they have to go through the bank of Disney Channel celebrities to stunt cast the show pretty early on. I know that this is something that they did with Beauty and The Beast. But, to bring in someone like Drew Seeley pretty early on in the shows run? That doesn't sound like the best of signs for me.

I never even thought about that. Sean took a break last summer also, so I just figured they decided to bring in someone else during that time. I don't exactly view Drew Seeley as a Disney Channel star. He's not in the actual shows like Christy Carlson Romano and Anneliese Van Der Pol were. I just figured it was a thing they did to bring in more fans and sales, not to keep from closing.

If they knew they were closing and if Addams was going to take the Lunt, they wouldn't be preventing it and trying to amp up sales because it was already a certainty.

I just can't see Mermaid closing so soon. I fully appreciate your opinions and facts everyone, they make me think.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 3:13pm

The Addams Family is VERY famous. The name itself will sell. And it stars Nathan Lane and Bebe Neuwirth. That is the start power that TLM never had.

The Addams Family will most likely be a big hit.

[Tag]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 3:28pm

Umm...and TLM was not VERY famous?

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/2/09 at 3:31pm

The Addams Family has been around for generations.