How is Newsies choreography handled in an amateur production?

[macnyc]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 9:37am

The other Newsies thread reminded me of a question I had after seeing the show last week. I know that Disney commissioned the stage version just to have something to license for stock, amateur and school productions, which had been making up their own thing based on the movie. But how could anyone perform the Gattelli choreography? I imagine it must be hard for professionals even. Do licensees even get the right to perform the Gattelli dancing, or does that cost extra? Are there different versions of the choreography that are easier?

Updated On: 7/3/12 at 09:37 AM

[once a month]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 9:44am

Amateurishly...

[Dave516]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 10:30am

There has not been a licensed amateur production of Newsies as of yet. The reason that Disney created this stage version was so that it could be licensed to the amateur market. With its recent success on Broadway (a step that it never intended to take) and its impending national tour, it will be still be a while before amateur groups are allowed to perform it.

When the show IS finally licensed to amateur groups, it will NOT include the right to Gattelli's choreography; only the right to perform the music and dialogue in front of a live audience. If a group were to wish to use Gattelli's choreography, it would have to go through his agent and obtain a separate license. Generally speaking, productions (both amateur and professional) hire a choreographer to interpret the music and come up with original choreography for their versions of the show. It is actually a violation of copyright law to use original designs (choreography, scenic, etc) without permission of the individual creators.

[JohnyBroadway]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 12:27pm

I could see MTI Commissioning a choreographic guide by written Gatelli, like they've done with other shows.

Updated On: 7/3/12 at 12:27 PM

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 1:53pm

Cast gymnaists.

[castlestreet]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 2:20pm

You can pay extra to use Stroman's dance notes for Crazy For You.

[mikey2573]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 2:34pm

I would think they would use more appropriate choreography than is used in the overblown Broadway production. The choreography stands out on Broadway --and I don't mean in a good way. It does not connect with the characters or plot and ends up looking completely out of place. It is simply HORRENDOUS!

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 5:09pm

Probably the same way it's handled in amateur West Side Story, Chorus Line, etc, productions. Depending on the capabilities of the cast.

[TheatreFreak05]

Posted: 7/3/12 at 5:18pm

I kind of agree mikey2573... I still don't know how it won the Tony over Rob Ashford's amazing choreography in Evita.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 12:40am

I still don't know how it won the Tony over Rob Ashford's amazing choreography in Evita.

WORD!!!

[PlayItAgain]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 1:04am

because Evita was a boring mess of theater

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 1:18am

I beg to differ. Newsies is an atrocious boring mess of theatre IMO.

[TheatreKid3]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 1:36am

I never understood the craze over the EVITA choreo. Sure, it's good, but it isn't at all spectacular except for Elena Roger's tango & featured dance moment in "Buenos Aires,' and doesn't hold a candle to Gatelli's work. I love Ashford's work, but his H2$ was much better and absolutely show stopping. Gattelli wholeheartedly deserved that Tony. And to say that his chroeo doesn't serve the story is BS. Most of you saying that must not even be familiar with NEWSIES material. The dancing always stood out from everything, so for it not to in the musical would be blasphemy - the dancing has and always should be one of the main stars of NEWSIES. The best thing about the NEWSIES film was the choreo and music, and Gattelli took Ortega's iconic work (which many choreographers would have just emulated or added to/enhance) and threw it out the window, all the while creating incredible movement and dance that surpassed Ortega's in every category.

And to call his work a horrendous mess in laughable and just plain ignorant. You might not like it compared to others, but there is no denying it is spectacular choreography (regardless of how you think it serves the story). The fact those boys can sing while doing that, and do it all 8 times a week, is incredible.

Now to answer the thread: Because the choreo has received such acclaim and has gained so much notoriety, I would say a guide will be created to be licensed out with the show, much like (as another poster pointed out), is done with shows like WEST SIDE STORY and A CHORUS LINE.

[ActingDude172]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 1:48am

But TheatreKid3, the best choreography is that which most creatively and efficiently explores the story and characters. Newsies doesn't do this nearly as much as, say, Once, and the fact that it won the Tony is a joke. Flashiness does not equate to good choreography. But I guess I should expect that attitude from someone who thinks H2$ had good choreography too. A good number or two (ex: "A Secretary is Not a Toy")? Sure. But other than that, a plethora of boring movement and pizzazz (ex": "Brotherhood of Man"). That's not what should be in the theatre, and the art form of musical theatre deserves better.

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 1:50am

And to call his work a horrendous mess in laughable and just plain ignorant. You might not like it compared to others, but there is no denying it is spectacular choreography (regardless of how you think it serves the story). The fact those boys can sing while doing that, and do it all 8 times a week, is incredible.

Just because I do not find the Newsies choreography as spectacular as others does not mean I am plain ignorant, it means I have a different opinion. And honestly, I do think it is a bad mess in that it is nonstop over the top gymnastics moves. That just does not appeal to me. Having a different opinion is not ignorance.

[Back Row]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 8:47am

It appears that many people on this board state opinions as if they were fact, perhaps attempting to squelch any opposing opinion through the sheer force of their conviction. Nothing wrong with saying that the choreography in Newsies or Evita does not appeal to you, but describing the dancing in a smash hit dance heavy show with over the top hyperbole like "horrendous" in all caps just makes the one come off as silly and emotional. You didn't like it. Fine. No need to make a fool of yourself.

I don't think Disney ever sets out to create high art. They are in the business of creating family entertainment. The fact that a failed movie had developed a cult like following caused them to analyze the reasons for that, and they determined that the stage version should have an attractive male cast with a lot of athletic dancing. Whether you like it or not, Gattelli did his job by providing what his producers wanted, and the audience is eating it up. As a commercial venture, Newsies was developed to perfectly appeal to its target audience, it was very well cast, and it was brilliantly marketed. The audience loves the choreography. That is really all Disney cares about. If they had wanted to develop their product to appeal to the pretentious New York theater crowd, I'm sure they could have mustered the resources to have done that, and I'm equally sure that Newsies would have closed on June 10 if they had.

[Musicaldudepeter]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 8:57am

That's just like asking 'How is Oklahoma! choreography handles in an amateur production' (or in fact any other musical)... I mean when Oklahoma! first opened, Agnes de Mille's choreography was the talk of the town. I'm sure back then, no one could ever have imagined a community theater group attempting to recreate her staging(s). But look at us now...

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:00am

It appears that many people on this board state opinions as if they were fact

In all fairness, this is a message board and people are going to express their opinions strongly. That's what sparks discussion. Some people just get mad when a differing opinion does not match theirs (especially when the differing opinion is expressed quite strongly), and they accuse the others of stating their opinion as fact or being ignorant.This is a message board of theatre fans, we all have strong opinions, and we all express them quite strongly. That's what creates discussion and keeps this place interesting.

[TheatreKid3]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 10:58pm

In all honesty, if the choreography was a spectacle or the stand out it is now, people on here would be complaining about it. I just don't get why people think the choreo does not serve the story? It services the material just as it did in the movie (and was one of the best parts of the movie), in fact it does so even more. I can understand a little gripe about the competition-esque runs across the stage to allow space for running flips, etc., but it doesn't take away from the piece.

Gattelli's choreo is filled with tons of moves/positions/moves etc. that help convey the Newsies' angst and emotions and helps showcase the overall tone of revolution, uprising and change. I don't understand why it is so difficult to understand. And if you think some of the NEWSIES choreo seems out of place, I don't see how you can't say the same thing for some of Ashford's choreo is "Buenos Aires," specifically.



Updated On: 7/4/12 at 10:58 PM

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:16pm

I don't see how you can't say the same thing for some of Ashford's choreo is "Buenos Aires," specifically.

See I actually think the choreography in Buenos Aires is stunning. Eva dancing with the descamisados and peasants during parts of the song and then with soldiers during Che's dialogue is extremely effective, and really added some depth to the song. The differences and nuances for the choreography during this number is actually one of my favorite things about the production. Buenos Aires is a group number where the dancing just works. Ashford's choreography is very neat and precise for Evita, and it goes with the direction and story - it is a lot more than just endless gymnastics tricks and flips.
My problem with Newsies is that nearly every group number has over the top choreography. I do not mind this for a few numbers during the show, but I felt like the choreography was attempting to make every single number a showstopper, which I do not think should be the point of choreography in a show. It's exhausting after awhile.

[TheatreKid3]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:29pm

I understand your reasoning. I, also, happen to really like Ashford's work it EVITA, and am a big fan of the revival and Elena Roger - who I think is an incredible Eva. The authenticity she brings to the role makes all the difference. I actually find her, overall more satisfying and authentic as Eva than anyone else I have heard. I happen to find Patti LuPone's rendition of "Buenos Aires" a slurred mess that is lazily sung, all the while trying to let everyone know "Guys, I'm so awesome."

But I respect your opinions of NEWSIES, even though we happen to disagree!

[Bwaydide92]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:33pm

This reminds me of WEST SIDE STORY. The original choreography is amazing by itself, but I've always disliked the show and the movie because there's so much ballet and traditional Broadway dancing in it, which I think NEWSIES has a lot of as well (I've only seen tv performances of it). For WEST SIDE STORY I think the extravagant choreography really takes away from the story because I just can't suspend my disbelief enough to accept two gangs fighting while doing pirouettes. It's quite laughable to me. I think the same thing with NEWSIES. I don't see all of those orphans and tough guys dancing like that. Yes the choreography is nice to look at, but it's not in the realm of believeablity.

In regards to the Tonys, I don't really think that they go for what serves the story best like people wish they did. I think that's how they should vote too, but often they just go for what's big. Yes there are exceptions, but the Tonys aren't as noble as they used to be.

[TheatreKid3]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:43pm

That gangs or orphans can do such things though, and it flow with the story, is part of the magic of theatre that brings the unbelievable to life. If you portrayed those pieces with hyper-realistically (you know what I mean), or many/most pieces of musical theatre for that matter, they would be rather dull.

[Bwaydide92]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:52pm

The choreography doesn't have to be extremely realistic, but whenever I hear people talk about WSS they're usually making fun of it. It's usually just theatre people that like it, and not all of them. There's a point where the audience says that they will no longer suspend their disbelief. When the choreography is too extravagant, the audience crosses that point and then the production becomes laughable.

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 7/4/12 at 11:53pm

I'm going to jump in on the side of those who feel that the Newsies choreography actually serves the story and characters perfectly. To object to it because striking orphans wouldn't really be doing pirouettes is exactly like objecting to musicals as an art form in general because people wouldn't be communicating with each other in rhyming couplets set to music.

What the choreography perfectly conveys, as has been mentioned here already, is a sense of defiance and empowerment in the songs where they are deciding to strike, and to keep fighting against the newspaper owners, and joy and exuberance in King of New York as they experience for the first time a feeling of being noticed/appreciated for what they are doing. It does not mean that one should assume the orphans would literally be wearing boots with metal taps on their feet, but rather, the emotion of their first feeling of inclusion/appreciation results in an exuberant outburst of joy, perfectly conveyed through the choreography.

Like songs in a musical, the dancing can convey heightened emotions, and is not necessarily meant to be taken as a literal act that the characters would be doing, just as they would not literally be bursting into song.

Updated On: 7/4/12 at 11:53 PM