IF/THEN

[verarivkin]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 11:20am

What is wrong with theater goers? I look at the weekly grosses every week and see the Juke Box musicals, ( "Beautiful" "Motown") and the sure thing revivals selling 80%-100% of the theater, yet a brilliant new piece of theater, IF/THEN. seems to struggle to sell seats. I don't get it.
Are audiences so afraid of a challenge that even Idina Menzel can't sellout a theater? This is so sad, and indicative of the direction Broadway has gone
It hurts me to se this wonderful show wane ever week in sales, while predictable mediocrity sells tickets.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 11:20 AM

[bwayphreak234]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 11:27am

While I personally LOVED If/Then, the reviews were mixed at best. The show had a strong start, but Idina's fan base dried out a long time ago. The show will most likely be closing come March when Idina's contract is up. Some shows catch on, some shows don't.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 11:27am

In light of the new shows that are folding or struggling, the case for IF/THEN 9 months in isn't terribly dire. I like the show a lot, and loved Menzel, who gives unstintingly. But it's a show that likely burned through a lot of her audience in the first 6 months, and since tweens and children really can't see the show (and wouldn't dig it much anyway), it's not a huge shock that the show isn't selling out. In today's marketplace? It's done respectably. One must grade on the curve.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 11:27 AM

[Pootie2]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:02pm

I'd expect a decent uptick for the holidays, then closing on her contract end. Maybe by contract end, they can get another blip with spring break or something.

There are other threads that discuss this, but mixed reviews and no Tony wins didn't help. Menzel herself tends to split opinion as well. Then while Frozen and Adele Dazeem substantially increased her public visibility, that couldn't tie into IF/THEN's marketing at all because the show is not child-friendly; so the target audience aspect has sat in a very awkward place, as far as I can see, because Menzel's bell curve fan base seems to trend on the younger side (more Wicked and Frozen than RENT). These younger people who can't afford tickets. The show is also very contemporary, requires much more attention than the average musical, is very "liberal," yet also "mundane" because it takes place in everyday NYC, and is very NYC-centric on top of that. Tremendous risk, and I do applaud them for that, but the show is rather niche IMO. The fact that a new original piece with mixed official reviews has managed to stay this long is, in a way, a "win," as Auggie27 says. But I wonder just how likely another original will be able to make it on Broadway; will producers of future endeavors require a star headliner? Kitt and Yorkey are going for an adaptation next, as far as I know.

[promisespromises2]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:14pm

I don't think it's really fair to compare musicals such as Beautiful and Jersey Boys to a musical like If/Then.

The audiences are completely different. When I saw Beautiful, I literally looked around and did not see one person my age or even ten years above my age range and I'm 23. Yet, when I saw If/Then in DC, it was completely different.

Most older people have steady income, are attracted to musicals that remind them of what they grew up with, etc.

[delongpre]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:22pm

I have asked myself the same question since March. Every one of my friends: New Yorkers and not, young, old, straight, gay, has enjoyed the show. Most have bought the CD and most have expressed interest in seeing it again. My daughter, 14, is in love with the show and says it speaks for kids her age who are also confronted with decisions, and reminds her that, even at 14, decisions can be life-altering. The music is incredible, the performers are like musical notes themselves, whirling around the New York skyline. I liked the show on my first viewing but have loved it more each time since. I feel the advertising has not done the show justice, and while Idina is of course the main sell point, tourists who have no clue about her might be drawn in more if they heard some of the storyline or some of the other songs.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:38pm

"Most older people have steady income, are attracted to musicals that remind them of what they grew up with, etc."

What an ageist thing to say...and a bunch of crap. Older folks love all kinds of theater.

The problem is that this is just not a very good show and has only run this long due to the popularity of its star.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:41pm

I am totally in love with this show. I love that the show explores the consequences of one's life based on the choices one makes. It's one that truly resonated with me this past year and a half as my life has been radically shaped/altered by the choices I have made.

I have to confess that the cast recording really got me through some really, really rough patches, especially "Always Starting Over" and "Learn To Live Without"...boy, did those songs ever hit home!

I have to go see it again soon before Idina leaves because I have the feeling it will close once she does.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:44pm

I also have to give props to Idina with doing this show during a year where she herself was going through some really major changes including the end of her 16 year relationship with Taye Diggs. She must have used alot of what was going on in her personal life into her performance. She's a helluva strong woman. I have a deep respect for her.



Updated On: 12/16/14 at 12:44 PM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:45pm

I echo doodle. If/Then is not a very good show. It has amazing performances with some very mediocre songs and a horrendous book. People who seem to like it believe that everyone seems to like it. It had very weak reviews with some raves for Idina. Most critics agreed the show itself was kind of a mess.

Also, how do you sell the show-"theres this woman who lives two lives." It's not easy to market or talk up. When you hear the hawkers in Times Square explain the show all they say is "it has Idina Menzel from Frozen. You know that song, 'Let It Go'-she sings that."

The show has run its course with Idina fans, Rent-heads and N2N fans. That's why it's floundering.

Also, its crappy to diss high energy shows like Beautiful and Jersey Boys. Yes they have familiar music but they also have amazingly talented casts KILLING those songs and dancing. People like to be entertained and there is no shame in that.

[Kad]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:46pm

The "challenge" of this show isn't driving anyone away. It's not a challenging show by any stretch of the imagination. It got mediocre reviews, has mediocre word-of-mouth, and hitched its horse to the idea that Idina Menzel can guarantee a full house every night.

I'll tell you what: I had a far better time at Beautiful, an extremely mediocre show with outstanding cast and production values. It's a show I would send visting friends and family to over If/Then.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 12:46 PM

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:47pm

People who seem to like it believe that everyone seems to like it.

That's not true. I love the show. I don't expect or even assume everyone likes it.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 12:55pm

And it's different strokes for different folks people. Not every show is going to be to anyone's liking...and that's okay.

I personally loved BEAUTIFUL. Jessie Mueller and that cast are just amazing.

Going back to the original posters feelings I would just have to guess that IF/THEN is definitely the much "harder sell". It got very mixed notices and although I don't think it's the greatest thing since Jerome Kern's SHOW BOAT, it isn't as bad as many tend to make it out to be. It's an original piece which is always a much harder sell than shows like BEAUTIFUL and MOTOWN which are an easier sell because they are blessed with a classic catalog of songs that are instantly recognizable and are extremely tourist friendly. That's not to say they are "bad" shows for being that. It just is what it is.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 12:55 PM

[haterobics]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:01pm

Isn't If/Then one of many shows where "If audiences can't embrace this, then I don't know if Broadway has a future..." Side Show got the same reaction upon its closing... I'm sure there have been other shows put into that sentiment, as well.

This thread should be in IMAX there's so much projecting going on...

[adam.peterson44]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:12pm

I am an "old" person i guess, by the standards of being more than 10 years older than 23 :), and although I enjoyed Beautiful and Motown very much, I didn't feel any desire to see them more than once, whereas I have returned to If/Then already numerous times, and hope to do so again before it closes if i can get back to NYC before then. I also listen to its cast recording on repeat for days at a time, but haven't even purchased the cast recordings of Beautiful or Motown.

I could relate to the story of If/Then a lot more strongly than to the stories of Beautiful or Motown. I'm not sure what the point was of saying that old people prefer stories that remind us of our youth, but i can say that If/Then reminds me a lot more of my present life than those other stories do for any part of my life. I don't know why those jukebox shows are more popular (including reviewers among the crowd of popularity), but that certainly can't be generalized to everyone.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:28pm

Isn't If/Then one of many shows where "If audiences can't embrace this, then I don't know if Broadway has a future...

I've never heard that. Maybe you're projecting?

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 01:28 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:31pm

It's implied in the initial post of this thread.

"This is so sad, and indicative of the direction Broadway has gone "

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:35pm

^ Oh yes, you are absolutely correct.

That's going a bit too far I think. The future of Broadway does not hinge on the success of IF/THEN.

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:40pm

Not every show is everyone's cup of tea, so folks in general just need to get over the fact that their opinion is not the gospel truth.

For me, IF/THEN is exactly my kind of show-- original, modern, unique, and unlike anything that I have seen on Broadway since NEXT TO NORMAL. While it doesn't reach that level of brilliance, I fell in love with it's ambition.

I reward shows that take such a huge risk. I'm much more willing to overlook their flaws. I feel like this show has been judged way too harshly. Instead of acknowledging its ambition and writing it off as something that just wasn't in their wheelhouse, some people here feel the need to CONTINUOUSLY take a baseball bat to it at every possible opportunity-- which I feel isn't deserved. Maybe that's just me-- I tend to discuss shows I enjoyed rather than repeatedly tear apart shows I didn't.

Updated On: 12/16/14 at 01:40 PM

[ShakinBaconGirl]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:41pm

If/then is alright. It's no great but it's not bad either. I didn't find the show challenging or even that thought provoking. But maybe that's just me.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:42pm

Yeah, I'd go on record to say it was just you. That sounds about right.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:43pm

"If/Then is not a very good show."

This "opinion as fact" statement is completely negated by itself---

"People who seem to like it believe that everyone seems to like it."

No different than the people who hate it believe everyone hates it.

I think the best part of IF/THEN is that it got people talking, though none of the critics managed to make a real analysis, like how/why people got completely different things out of it.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:45pm

Opinion as fact is a contagious disease around these parts.

So is speaking on everyone else's behalf.

I take it with a grain of salt.

[Jeffrey Karasarides]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:57pm

"Also, its crappy to diss high energy shows like Beautiful and Jersey Boys. Yes they have familiar music but they also have amazingly talented casts KILLING those songs and dancing."

And is it even fair to rule out a show just because it doesn't have an original score? The most that should really matter is the finished product!

[promisespromises2]

Posted: 12/16/14 at 1:57pm

I definitely wasn't trying to be ageist, so sorry if it came across that way.

I was just going by what I've seen. I do know some older people who love going to every kind of show. But I also know more older people who like to stick with what they know. Definitely wasn't trying to state it as a fact, just trying to share my experience! You SHOULD take things with a grain of salt on here. Everybody is passionate about their view points, which is great.

I liked If/Then when I saw it in DC, but not enough to see it again in NYC. It was one of those shows that I was just so hyped to see Idina in a show on stage that the first time I saw it that's all I really thought about it. When I saw it at the end of it's run again in DC, I realized that it just wasn't for me. I like the music and I play select songs form the cast recording sometimes, but it's just a show I personally could not connect with.