Police state tactics over taking pictures in the theater- Page 5

[brldisteach2]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 3:40pm

Also, in the theatre I work at, we used to check cell phones and cameras, but it got to be too much in the last 10 or so years when almost Everyone has one. To check the phones of 1000-2000 people would be a logistical nightmare (time involved, storage, etc.). The examples expressed on here were for venues of 100-200 people. I don't think there would be space or security to store over 1000 phones during a show.

[Seperite]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 3:42pm

Jane --

Thank you for that response.

I hear what you're saying, and certainly recognize that your experience as a long-time theater employee gives you a much better perspective than I have as to what are or are not effective means of dealing with the problem. I would only hope that in turn, you and other theater management people would respect my position as a long-time theater attendee (and former performer) that commotion in the aisles during a performance -- including an usher parking herself in the aisle and frantically trying to get the attention of a patron -- is distracting, and takes away from other patrons' enjoyment of the performance. One person's misdeeds shouldn't deleteriously affect everyone else's experience. I don't take 'glee', as someone else wrote, that the offender is getting her comeuppance...I'm simply annoyed that the theater staff deems meting out punishment against one as justifiable cause for interfering with everyone else. There has to be a better way.

[Seperite]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 3:48pm

Kad --

Barring offenders from future performances is not a police-state tactic. It's wholly appropriate tit-for-tat.

Attending theater is a privilege, not a right. If you don't know how to behave in the theater, then that privilege can and should be taken away. Children under 4 are generally not allowed in because they don't have the temerity to sit still for hours. If a particular adult has demonstrated that he/she doesn't have the maturity to sit still for a couple of hours without whipping out his/her phone and disturbing fellow patrons and the performers, then that person, too, should be banned.

Theaters are places of public entertainment, but run by, and for the financial benefit of, private companies. If the bad behavior of one patron deleteriously affects or diminishes the enjoyment of other patrons, or puts the actors in danger, the theater owner has the right to revoke his/her privilege to attend. That punishment would suit the crime.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 4:07pm

Seperite- I keep repeating myself, and I'm saying that standing in the aisles is the only way to get to the "perpetrator.' And, as has been mentioned before, it is very often that a cast member, from the stage, notifies the stage manager that someone is photographing, etc. That cast member also mentions exactly where the person is sitting. Then the SM tells us where the person is. We are expected to immediately take care of the problem. This involves standing in the aisle and locating the person.

In closing, we are doing the things we have to do, no matter who likes it or not. We are there to serve the production and in turn are serving the public in trying to remove the problems which arise every night.

[RockyRoad]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 6:16pm

Dear little Seperite,

Given your apparent lack of basic reading comprehension, allow me to make this much easier for your level of comprehension.

You don't set the rules of the theatre. You never have. You never will. But your self-entitled attitude thinks you should rule the world because you are the most precious thing ever. Time realize that someone lied to you.

You thought you would have learned a big-boy lesson when you posted this same message on All That Chat and they roasted you (they don't play nice like we do here).

Now, be a good boy and back to the sandbox while the adults talk.

[Seperite]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 6:58pm

Rocky Road --

You are extremely mean-spirited, rude, and seem to get your jollies off demeaning strangers behind the comfort of your computer screen. It is exceedingly unbecoming behavior and a pathetic means of engaging in discourse.

Contrary to your false presumptions, I have not posted anything on All That Chat (I don't even know what that is) and I was not the person who pulled out a phone and photographed the production.

Simmer down.

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 2/16/15 at 10:48pm

What The World Needs Now.....
What The World Needs Now Is...

[PJPan]

Posted: 2/17/15 at 8:52am

I usher and house manage part-time and part of my job, what I'm being paid to be there for, is to - you know - make sure people don't take pictures. We have a hard and fast rule about it and I have no problem loudly letting the person know they can't do it. I've sat behind them in seats and made them go through their phone to delete the pictures. We have a one-strike rule and if I catch them again, I'm allowed to kick them out - as a poster said above, attending the show is a privilege you have paid for, but you do not have the right to behave however you like. If they don't like our rules, no one is forcing them to stay.

[Taryn]

Posted: 2/17/15 at 12:50pm

One thing I haven't seen mentioned while skimming the thread is the distraction and disruption that often comes to other audience members who are in closer view of the offending party. I know that it sure distracts and pisses me off if I'm next to or behind someone who is doing things on their phone. The OP says that their theatregoing experience was disrupted by ushers swooping in quickly to intercept, but I'm sure that there were other audience members with a better view of the photographer who were having their experience disrupted BEFORE the usher intervened.

[Dawn Davenport]

Posted: 2/18/15 at 12:56pm

I'll never understand why it's so hard for people to turn off their phones during the duration of a show (ESPECIALLY live performance!)

It happens everywhere now, there don't seem to be ANY boundaries. Just before Christmas I was inside St. Patrick's Cathedral while a mass was going on in one of the small chapels. While I stood to the back watching quietly, a tourist in front of me HELD UP HIS IPAD AND STARTED FILMING THE MASS. A security guard immediately told him to put it away, recording a mass is NOT allowed.

The security guard moved away and stood by me, and I leaned into her and whispered "I can't believe someone would have the nerve to do that!" and she rolled her eyes and whispered back "You wouldn't BELIEVE what people do here!"

Great comments in this thread by the people who work in the theatre as ushers and speak from personal experience; thanks for sharing!





Updated On: 2/18/15 at 12:56 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 2/18/15 at 1:30pm

While I disagree with the OP that the tactics are excessive, the issue is slightly more complicated than simply confronting the offendors and telling them to stop. It can often be more distracting stopping someone from using their cell phone or taking a photo than the actual offense. Quite a few shows insist that neither the ushers nor security confront the offender, since it is more distracting. However, many shows, as Jane2 describes, insist that it be dealt with by the house staff. It gets further complicated (on Broadway, at least) as to who is responsible for enforcing this. The usher's union insists that it is not in the collective bargaining agreement for ushers to "police" the audience and enforce the no cell phones/photography rule, likewise outside security insist that cell phones and cameras are not their responsibility either. Of course, ushers in many theaters will enforce it at the direction of the chief usher and house manager if permitted, and many of the security personnel will also assist as a courtesy to the house staff.

With that said, taking pictures inside a theater is illegal if those pictures capture any aspect of the production design (it IS a copyright violation), so to have an usher or security address the problem mid-performance is NOT excessive. Flash photography can also distract the perforers on stage. . . I've seen performers almost fall off the stage or run into walls/sets becuase of it.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 2/18/15 at 3:21pm

"We have a one-strike rule and if I catch them again, I'm allowed to kick them out"

God, that's so amazing. I wish Broadway houses did that.

[wonkit]

Posted: 2/18/15 at 3:58pm

Hi, Dawn D. You do know that a couple was arrested for , er , fornicating in St. Patrick's. I don't remember the details but I am no longer surprised about bad behavior.

[Dawn Davenport]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 11:55am

Hi Wonkit, I seem to recall that story about the couple getting busy in St. Patrick's! I'm going to make a wild guess that alcohol or drugs were involved....

[Fosse76]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 1:11pm

Jane2 said:
I had to do that back in 2000. We had to go to great lengths to follow the rule. We had to carefully remove the roll of film so as to avoid exposing it. Then we had to pay for the whole role to be developed and printed, then send the patron all the legitimate images.

and brldisteach2 said:
During the time when people still brought in cameras with film, one company would take the film, develop it, and send the person any picture that wasn't of the show.
I'm surprised the legal team of your employers didn't step in. Unless you are law enforcement, you have no legal authority to confiscate the possessions of anyone. Your recourse for people failing to turn over or delete pictures taking illegally is to call the police, who have such authority. I chalk it up to people not knowing any better. I've seen ushers on Broadway snatch cameras and phones out of people's hands (during Hairspray, the staff at the Neil Simon were notorious for it). It doesn't happen anymore, at least not that I've seen.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 1:20pm

You cannot walk into any federal courthouse in this country -- as a juror, a litigant, a tourist, or anyone else -- with a phone on you. Every phone is checked in, and recovered on your way out. It's a hassle, but necessary in this day and age if you want to prevent picture taking.
That's not entirely true. Each court and judge has their own rules. Generally attorneys are always allowed to bring their cell phones with them (to say nothing of the staff themselves pf the courthouse).

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 2:46pm

"you have no legal authority to confiscate the possessions of anyone."

We did not confiscate anyone's possession. We did not take their camera. Was the roll of film their property? Some of the pictures, yes, but the ones of the production were acquired illegally and were not their property. We returned their property to them and kept the illegal section.

[ZannaDo]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 2:53pm

People on here sure do feel entitled to behave however they want in a theatre without consequences. Yikes. I've seen the police be called at Broadway shows over patrons who were verbally and even sometimes physically abusive to the house staff when they're trying to enforce simple policies that everyone should understand. At Cinderella, a woman shoved a ticket taker into a wall for telling her she couldn't bring the meal she had just purchased at McDonalds into the theater.

If tactics are getting more elevated to deal with unruly theatergoers, it's only because the level of obnoxiousness, entitlement, and poor behavior has done nothing but worsen over the years. Most FOH staff members have the patience of saints to deal what they deal with, so if you find yourself being the target of their ire, you probably did something to deserve it. If you can't walk into the theater, turn your phone off, enjoy the show, and leave without disrupting those around you and following the rules, don't go to shows. Not that hard.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 3:03pm

^ bravo!

[SweetLips]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 3:10pm

Zero tolerance is what's required.
Most theatre announcements pre show try to be cute/funny/clever 'in the period' which detracts from the severity of the announcement.
One strike and you're out, literally-mean it and follow through. Disruptive-yes but I'm a control freak-my way or the hiway.
No eating, drinking, talking or picture taking---sit down and just watch the show you paid for---how hard can that be?

[Alan Henry]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 3:12pm

I totally agree that photo taking during the show is distracting and rude. I would never do it, and it would piss me off if someone near me was doing it.

BUT: Times are changing and everyone has a cell phone, and feels entitled to taking a photo. Frankly, a lot of people already dislike going to the theatre - and if there are ushers berating people for taking photos, those people might be discouraged to return in the future.

As much as I'd hate to sit next to someone taking pictures - we need their buts in the seats supporting (and paying for) the arts. So let's make everyone feel welcome and deal with situations like the one the OP described with a little restraint.

(You can catch more flies with honey vs. vinegar sort of plays in here, doesn't it?)

[dramamama611]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 3:13pm

Amen!

[ddenoff2]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 5:04pm

Personally, as a producer who wants to encourage social media promotion of our shows, we've found that advising patrons that they CAN snap photos, selfies, and whatever BEFORE and AFTER the show and DURING intermission, but not DURING the performance, and doing so, usually in the preshow announcement NICELY and HUMOROUSLY works just fine. The 'law' is there as a standby but it's really completely up to the producers discretion. From my understanding of the contracts of ALL the unions, including designers, there really aren't 'copyright' issues - it's not ILLEGAL. I know people who were rudely advised not to even photograph a merchandise booth because the vendor felt that their 'proprietary arrangement of the merch' was copyrighted.

It's lunacy and it IS true that in todays' world, social media far outshines critics opinions in making or breaking a show (see the reviews of Wicked if you don't believe me)

SO, when you come to see 39 Steps at the Union Square theatre, we will give you a free red nose (in keeping with our artwork) and we will encourage you to snap a 'nosie' and REWARD you for posting and tweeting them in support of the fun time you had at the show!

I know this isn't everyone's point of view and I respect my colleagues who would disagree!





Updated On: 2/21/15 at 05:04 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 5:18pm

Ushers should be equipped with Tasers.

[Pootie2]

Posted: 2/19/15 at 5:20pm

It's illegal.

http://ypdcrime.com/penal.law/article275.htm#p275.32

New York State Law
275.32 Unauthorized operation of a recording device in a motion picture or live theater in the third degree. VIOLATION
275.33 Unauthorized operation of a recording device in a motion picture or live theater in the second degree. Class A MISDEMEANOR
275.34 Unauthorized operation of a recording device in a motion picture or live theater in the first degree. Class E FELONY

And I believe there's federal law concerning copyright too. Then things I wouldn't have expected, but still makes sense I guess:

http://www.playbill.com/features/article/ask-playbill.com-why-cant-i-take-photos-in-a-broadway-theatre-180456/print

But yeah, there are situations where disallowing can feel excessive or is fuzzy around the edges, and it's true that social media plays a big role these days, but social media is still not the same as shots of the actual show. "Social media" is the extension of word-of-mouth, indirect marketing at its best.

Funny story: IF/THEN's PR people on Twitter have the habit of retweeting any positive tweet about their show. Just a few days ago or something, they accidentally retweeted someone's positive remarks that also included links to bootlegs. They deleted that quickly, but it earned a facepalm. Kind of like Chenoweth retweeting the in-show illegal photographer.