Hamilton- Page 2

[Lilly7]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 10:47pm

I dislike the idea of putting down rap and hip-hop to elevate Hamilton. Hamilton is a masterpiece but it was strongly influenced by rap and hip-hop. Lin has even said that Hamilton is his love letter to hip-hop. I think Lin would probably rather have people come out of his show with a new viewpoint on rap/hip-hop and be inspired to listen to new music rather than thinking Hamilton is so much better than any rap or hip-hop song out there. 

[tmcgriff]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 10:47pm

FindingNamo said: "It's BOLLOCKS!!  IT"S BOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKS!

 

 

 

Come on.  What do we think inspired Miranda?  Good hip hop and rap.  

 

"

THANK YOU!

Almost every single rap in Hamilton pays homage to another rap song.

While I am glad people who "don't like rap" are giving Hamilton a chance (which is great because I think the show is freaking genius), I get frustrated when people feel the need to preface it in a negative way. A person who makes such general and negative statements about hip hop hasn't even attempted to listen to hip hop beyond what is on popular radio.

[Showface]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 10:47pm

There are so many genres and sub-genres of music to the point where I think nothing will absolutely dominate pop-culture. Even with the success of Hamilton, I don't think it's necessary to get "trained" to rap/hip hop, because I still don't think that this is sparking a big hip-hop musical revolution to the point where hip hop would dominate the musical theatre world.

Updated On: 10/5/15 at 10:47 PM

[Kad]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 10:53pm

Namo, you have a talent at flipping these stupid threads into something deliciously absurd.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 10:53pm

 

Have you seen it? Go see it.

 

I've always hated rap and hip-hop (or thought I did) and went dreading it.

 

I ended up being more excited about it--as I've said several times on this board since that night--more excited about Hamilton than I have been since I was in high school in 1971, and I went to a Saturday matinee of the original production of Follies.

 

No musical since Follies--including Night Music, A Chorus Line and Ragtime--no musical has excited this much.

 

Go.

 

(And don't leave at intermission.)

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 11:02pm

I'm with Lilly7.  People who are going to insist on prefacing praise for Hamilton with disclaimers about not liking hip hop and how it's NOT rap are like the people who have to spend 20 minutes explaining how plays with gay themes are "universal" (and that includes performers in such plays) and not really "gay" at all.

 

I feel like if Hamilton doesn't open your mind to the poetic ecstasies of hip hop, you're kind of missing half the point of the show.  The other thing Hamilton does is prove hip hop is a direct descendent of Shakespeare.

Updated On: 10/5/15 at 11:02 PM

[ChiTheaterFan]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 11:34pm

My dad has always bemoaned how much he hates rap. He loved Hamilton. But rather than say "I don't like rap but I still like Hamilton," he's now started researching and listening to rap. His new favorite movie is straight outta Compton. He quoted NWA in a text to me (and I didn't even get the reference so I had to embarrassingly admit my dad knows more about rap than me). He said he's discovered that rap can really be an art form. This is a 60-something Midwestern minister. 

 

So maybe instead of saying Hamilton isn't "really rap" (which I have been guilty of as well--it does still have a lot of musical theater influence) we should all be realizing that not all rap is the same, and keeping an open mind even if we haven't liked the rap we've heard on the radio. 

 

And I don't think the fact that there's one hip-hop inspired musical creates a risk of every musical being rap based from here on out. Just like even though rent was popular, not everything is a rock musical. And even though Book of Mormon was popular not every musical is featuring that kind of humor. What's great is diversity of Broadway is increasing--the old style musicals can still be made while leaving room for new things IN ADDITION. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/5/15 at 11:41pm

I love this thread!  A lot of thought and growth is happening.

 

PS And thank you Kad.  That's one of the nicest things anybody's posted about me here.

Updated On: 10/6/15 at 11:41 PM

[mariel9]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 12:04am

I have never had patience or interest in rap.  I suppose it was the subject matter.

Which subject matter is that? Social justice? Family? Relationships? Work? Struggle? Dance? Fun? Death? Violence? Joy? Sex?

[After Eight]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 12:33am

"I'm terrified that the future of musicals will be rap."

 

And if it is, when you come right down to it, what does it matter, anyway? They're so lousy already, and have been on a downward trajectory for so long, it's long past the point of worrying about the future. We have seen the future, and it is now ---and that's plenty bad enough.

 

So don't waste your time in fear. It won't do you any good, anyway. Spend your time instead in pleasurable pursuits. Take a walk in the park. Look at the morning sun and the evening stars. Enjoy raindrops on roses and tea with jam and bread. Put on Hello, Dolly! and No, No, Nanette.

 

And remember: simply remember your favorite things, and then you won't feel so bad.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Updated On: 10/6/15 at 12:33 AM

[MrSweetNAwful]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 2:26am

Of course this topic has been discussed before https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1085773 

A lot of great points in there, but I'll post my favorite below. You know how you hate it when someone says they hate musicals cuz it's all tap dancing and chorus numbers? Yeah, it's the same thing with rap. You know how hair metal was all about partying, stage posturing and rampant misogyny, but many other rock styles are not like that? ... You see where I'm going here.

 

Jane2 said: "I categorize all of rap the same way because I see it performed all the time on tv, for all the years it's been around and that's the only kind  I've seen. Never saw any other kind."

jnb9872 said: "Totally fair, but you also might draw the conclusion that you hate music you see performed on tv.

 

For years, I was an "anything but Country" music listener. Then listening to Wilco and Drive-By Truckers got me into Alt-Country like Son Volt, the Jayhawks, Lucinda Williams and Ryan Adams. That got me to go back to Steve Earle and then to Outlaw Country like Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson. They, in turn, took me further back to the original troubadours like Hank Williams and Woody Guthrie. Meanwhile, having a firmer grasp on the family tree, I looked into newer artists within Country who were influenced by the acts I'd found I liked. That's when I found Hayes Carll and Sturgill Simpson and Kacey Musgraves. And then I looked into their other influences and kept listening and learning...

 

The point is, when you let others (tv shows, for instance) curate for you, your tastes for a genre are reflexive: you either like or don't like what's given to you and that's as far as your engagement goes. When you investigate for yourself, and try to take a grasp of the genre from whatever foothold you start with, and follow your own path through the tangled maze of influences, you develop an understanding and appreciation for what you like and don't like. Rap has many styles and periods, many brilliant artists and many shallow poseurs. If Lin and HAMILTON are a foothold you can use, it's worth investigating. But I wouldn't write off a show just because it uses a form of music I've only passively engaged with and tuned out."

 

I thought I hated all country except Johnny Cash because I was only passively listening to the dreck on TV and radio they call "country". Then I heard First Aid Kit, and Trampled by Turtles, and The Lone Bellow, and...

Updated On: 10/6/15 at 02:26 AM

[mistermanifesto]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 8:12am

It really baffles me that someone would think that immediately after Hamilton musicals are going to be only rap. There have been a few 'rap' (influenced) musicals like Bring in da Noise, Bring in da Funk, Holla if Ya Hear me and of course, the Lin Manuel-Miranda musicals. But to have these hip-hop musicals, you have to have people who write them AND who write them well. A significant amount of hip-hop lovers dislike traditional theatre music. And the opposite is also true, with show tune lovers alike. My point being, I think it's a rare thing to have someone who has the love for the theatre and 'urban music' and who has the ability to blend both of them in a wonderful manner. So the odds of the world finding another Lin Manuel-Miranda is pretty slim. It could happen but I don't think we'll be seeing many more rap musicals if he's not the one writing them. Especially since he's the only one that has gained respect within the Broadway community (and has garnered a Tony.) But who knows? Maybe he'll inspire more people in a future generation or help people take some budding hip-hop composers more seriously. 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 9:21am

I can't take the OP seriously at all.  S/he hasn't even commented since beginning the thread.  Obviously a troll.

 

 

[Eurotrash]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 9:32am

I would like to suck from the teat of this work of genius, but simply cannot listen to rap (I did try).

The bits that weren't rap, I quite enjoyed. Someone save me from doing a playlist of the non-rap numbers, and I'll give it another go.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 9:40am

I'm with Pal Joey here.  I had listened to the infectious "My Shot" in the spring and summer, via the only released footage, enjoying it, appreciating its verbal acuity and certainly seeing the theatricality. But in small way maybe dreading the idea of 2 hours and 45 minutes that might resemble the number.  So I was blindsided by the score, on a first and second hearing last week, followed my multiple listen-to's of individual numbers (the breathtaking act one finale, "Non Stop" still knocks me out, each time like a first hearing.) And then I went on Sunday, and became full-throttle besotted.  I think the comparison to a response to "Follies" pretty much sums up my own reaction. All the more so because I was so surprised by it. And as I've posted in another thread, the show rides such a wave of emotion, genuine feeling, its unexpected turns into the darkest nooks and crannies of dread and grief pack even more stunning punches.  Act two left me pressed against the seat, just hit.  I couldn't even begin to call it a rap or hip hop show, as both are in service of a sung-through piece of genius musical theater that incorporates and then transcends many genres.  

Updated On: 10/6/15 at 09:40 AM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 11:18am

FindingNamo said: "I'm with Lilly7.  People who are going to insist on prefacing praise for Hamilton with disclaimers about not liking hip hop and how it's NOT rap are like the people who have to spend 20 minutes explaining how plays with gay themes are "universal" (and that includes performers in such plays) and not really "gay" at all."

I've been guilty of this AND IT'S TRUE and a great point.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/6/15 at 12:01pm

Like Alanis says, we live, we learn.