Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?- Page 2
Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
#25Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/29/16 at 11:34pm
Is Sondheim overrated? Of course not. His lyrics can be as sophisticated as those of Cole Porter or as colloquial as those of Oscar Hammerstein, as funny as Larry Hart's or as touching and true-to-character as Sheldon Harnick's.
His minimalist music is not only memorable in its own right (think of the opening theme of FOLLIES: most of us didn't even know it had lyrics until years later), it is the perfect medium for stage music, where the lyrics must be intelligible even as an orchestra plays, scenery moves, and the dancing chorus taps.
I don't know why "mass appeal" is even a criterion, Mr. Nowack. Are the paintings of the Cubists inferior to "Dogs Playing Poker"? Mass appeal is usually enjoyed by those who tell us comforting clichés (pets are like people); artists such as Sondheim confront us with truths we usually do our best to avoid.
#26Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/29/16 at 11:53pm
No, not all. Not in the slightest. I still feel honored to have worked with him twice.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#27Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 12:02am
Phantom of London,
I haven't read any of the responses to your question. I don't have to. I know they'll just parrot the same party-line guff we've been fed ad nauseam for over forty years now. Enough of that!
The truth is, it lies entirely within your own power to obtain the most accurate answer to your question. All you need do --- that is, if you have the fortitude--- is to listen to some of his work.. A small amount will suffice heartily. The sentiments of distaste, irritation, and queasiness that will course instantly through your entire being will answer your query most definitively.
UncleCharlie
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/26/16
#28Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 12:23am
Jay Lerner-Z said: "No, but if you really wanted a discussion, perhaps you could've given your own answer and at least attempted to make an argument for or against.
Hopefully the people who respond will put a reciprocal amount of effort into their posts.
^This
#29Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 3:15am
Time will tell. One or two of these songs written 70-80 years ago by Rodgers and Hart ("My Funny Valentine", "Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered"
, George Gershwin ("Someone to Watch Over Me", Jerome Kern ("The Way You Look Tonight", "All the Things You Are", and Cole Porter ("I Get A Kick Out of You", "I've Got You Under my Skin" are part of the repertoire of almost every contemporary vocalist today, to be sung and/or recorded. A week does not go by without hearing at least one.
As for full musicals, since Sondheim does not write the book to his musicals, how do you compare "his" musicals to others? Should we say that a show is by "Sondheim and Lapine" as we say Rodgers and Hammerstein? Sondheim and Lapine will most likely be judged in the future by how often the properties are licensed and revived, compared to the shows of others. Some cliques will hold all Sondheim in the highest regard compared to musicals before and after, believing that those who don't "get" the musicals are just of a lower intellect.
Now I will duck and cover. I really am warming up to Sondheim, gradually..
#30Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 5:59am
I only read this to see if AfterEight chimed in--and predictably--he/she/they did.
Never disappoints.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#32Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 8:20am
"I only read this to see if AfterEight chimed in "
Wow. I'm flattered to see that I matter so much (or even at all.) You mean no one else's opinion was of interest to you?
"and predictably -- he/she/they did."
Glad I lived up to expectations.
"Never disappoints."
That's precisely why I responded. It pains me to disappoint others.
Well, Sweet Lips, now that you've gotten that off your chest, you can bask in the joys of listening to "No Life."
Have a happy Sunday.
Consistency
Understudy Joined: 7/2/13
#33Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 1:54pm
Including Sondheim in a thread title is the forum equivalent of saying Beetlejuice three times.
#34Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 2:24pm
It pains me to disappoint otters.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#36Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 2:30pm
Otter:
A gay man who is very hairy all over his body, but is smaller in frame and weighs considerably less than a bear.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
#37Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 2:49pm
So opinions don't exist to you, After Eight? You seem to spend a lot of time lamenting that 90% of Musical Theatre is not up to your standards. I don't care who loves Sondheim and who doesn't. To each their own. It doesn't interfere with my love of Sondheim and how his work has tapped into and I formed much of my life. Why must anyone who doesn't share your opinion be described as parrots incapable of forming their own opinion? I discovereSondheim without any idea of what the world thought of him. I spent much of my teen years enjoying cast recordings before social media and Google. I usually ignore you but I baffle at your.l need to hold your opinions as fact.
"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"
Updated On: 10/30/16 at 02:49 PM
#38Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 2:56pm
No
"Noel [Coward] and I were in Paris once. Adjoining rooms, of course. One night, I felt mischievous, so I knocked on Noel's door, and he asked, 'Who is it?' I lowered my voice and said 'Hotel detective. Have you got a gentleman in your room?' He answered, 'Just a minute, I'll ask him.'" (Beatrice Lillie)
#39Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 3:00pm
The original poster did not offer any of his thoughts to support why he feels Stephen Sondheim is overrated. So then what is the purpose of this thread?
You Can Disagree Without Being Disagreeable
#41Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 3:53pm
This is the stupidest thread on the Internet in the history of stupidest threads on the Internet, and in the past two weeks, there have been two stupid threads that were so stupid they SEEMED to be the stupidest threads in the history of the Internet, which they couldn't have been because this thread IS.
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#42Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 4:08pm
"So opinions don't exist to you, After Eight? "
Mildred,
Of course they exist. How could one deny their existence? There would be no message boards without them, would there? I simply said I didn't need to read them, because I already know what they expressed.
Was I wrong?
"You seem to spend a lot of time lamenting that 90% of Musical Theatre is not up to your standards."
I lament the musical theatre that is not up to standards, period.
#43Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 4:48pm
Why have you responded three times to a thread you claim not to have read?
How odd.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#44Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 4:50pm
^
Read carefully. I said I had not read the responses in this thread prior to my first response. That is still the case.
#45Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 5:38pm
Some people aren't happy unless they're unhappy.
"Broadway...I'll lick you yet!"
#46Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 7:48pm
Generally I look forward to A8's comments whenever a new play opens, or whenever someone invokes the dreaded name Sondheim in a thread title. Having a dependable contrarian in the mix gives me the illusion that this board is still fair and balanced on some level.
But I take great umbrage at A8's insistence that those of us who love Sondheim above all others are simply following some party line. Whose party line is this, exactly? Certainly not the public's. Sondheim is still struggling to get any show of his to last longer than a year and a half on Broadway. Certainly not most of the critics-- do you not remember the pans that greeted his last original musical in NY which was "ROAD SHOW"? Or how about the slams that greeted "THE FROGS" at Lincoln Center before that?
Ask any of us who have loved his work since the 70's: we were the only ones we ever knew who loved him, and couldn't figure out why no-one else seemed to agree with us. In a sense, we were the contrarian After Eights of our youth in proclaiming our lonely devotion to his works.
#47Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 8:15pm
What's up bro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhPh5w6MxFg
Stephanatic
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#48Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 9:31pm
"Having a dependable contrarian in the mix gives me the illusion that this board is still fair and balanced on some level."
Well, you got one thing right, at least. It's an illusion. A real whopper of one. And from the other statements in your post, I'd say your quite enamored of them.
"Whose party line is this, exactly?"
Surely, you can't be serious, can you? The elitists. The snobs. The soi-disant "intellectuals." The critics. The award givers. The agenda crowd.
" Certainly not most of the critics--"
Huh?.... Have you actually read any critics during the last 50 years? Did you read Frank Rich's reviews of Sunday in the Park With George? Did you read Ben Brantley's review of Sunday in the Park With George?
Surely, you can't be serious, can you?
Please tell us you were speaking in jest.
Please... hello?
¿Macavity?
Broadway Star Joined: 1/29/16
#49Is Stephen Sondheim Overrated?
Posted: 10/30/16 at 9:43pm
I can't believe people are still fussing over After Eight's reply. I thought he was fair with his response. It's called an opinion for a reason.
