Karen Olivo not returning to MOULIN ROUGE!- Page 4

[Boq101]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 10:34am

People here would really rather create ten different stories in their head than take a person of color at their word. 

She's got her own activism that's been a source of productivity during this time and I'm sure like many other people who won't be returning to Broadway she's been able to use this time to find other things in her life that fulfill her, especially when she thinks of the hard time she worries she'll have to try to focus on performing in this show with all of these other things happening. She doesn't need that and so she can choose to make that choice. 

Scott Rudin ended careers and put people in the hospital. Some of you here must really wanna see a production of the Music Man so much you'd forgive all of that. It's asinine. 

I've taught amazingly talented High Schoolers in theatre who have gone on to some of the best programs in the country to continue their training and maybe from that perspective it does hurt more.  You see their dreams and you see the machine they're going to be up against in this city and your heart breaks for them.

 

Some of you clearly need theatre back in your lives, you've run out of any empathy you could muster on your own. 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 10:41am

Also, the defense that “this happens in every industry” is exactly the assbackward thinking that has us all marching in place. If this happens in YOUR industry too, then I encourage YOU to change that rather than sh*t on people who no longer wish to accept that in THEIR industry.

It’s not just Olivo refusing to return to this work environment. They’re right that many have no choice, but they are not an anomaly; they just happen to be the only person with a high profile enough job that was waiting for them when Broadway returned for any news source or social media platform to take notice or care. Whether they were “going to be fired” is completely irrelevant and, frankly, a gross attempt to diminish someone who is making a completely valid stand here. (Among the many gross things said about Olivo’s character and work ethic as though you have any idea at all or that it has any relevance to the topic, you’re also proving Olivo’s prediction that this would be “spun” correct.)

Updated On: 4/15/21 at 10:41 AM

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 10:46am

“Anyway, phew, this thread is exhausting. Nice job piling on the woman of color making a stand. If Aaron Tveit did this, you’d all be praising him.”

Damn straight. The last year has brought so many things to light again-the deeply embedded systemic racism and white supremacy in this country as well as the abuse of power of law enforcement.

For the performing arts it has also been eye-opening. Performers have realized they are dealing with inept leadership within their industry. The “men behind the curtain” have no ability to take them through a crisis, ensure their healthcare and recovery and make viable plans to resume their work.

I think many organizations realized this as well. That they are being run by people who only can function and problem solve when things are running smoothly and cash is coming in. When things hit the fan, there is no gumption, no imagination, no passion, no charity, compassion or advocacy. It’s typically tired old white people past their prime saying “sorry” while continuing to collect huge paychecks.

These threads have also made me realize that some of you are just interested in getting back to your sippy cups and signed window cards and aren’t really interested in any type of social justice. Actors are the trained animals you paid good money to see so they better shut up and perform in their “cushy” job. You are part of the problem.

[LarryD2]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:03am

I respect Olivo's decision. She's in a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation, as this thread illustrates. As someone who has been extremely vocal throughout the pandemic about inequity and abuse within the industry, if they were to just return, they would be accused of paying lip service to social justice. But by actually taking a stand, they're now in a position for people to try and say it's not her place, that she's being self-serving, etc.

There was going to be blowback no matter what she did, so she chose what felt like the right decision. It costs nothing to make an empty statement on Twitter, and it leads to nothing in most cases. What she did is an example of someone living their values. We need more of that in this industry.

Updated On: 4/15/21 at 11:03 AM

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:07am

The obvious difference between Olivo and Tveit, other than skin color, is that Tveit has never shown any overt desire to retire and indeed seems to be fully committed to acting. If he quit acting to take a stand on social justice, having no obvious career fallback and no well-known desire to leave, it would strike me as a much bigger deal than Olivo leaving. She always seemed like she had one foot out the door anyway.

In my previous post I analogized this to Jeff Flake (a white former Arizona senator), who similarly took a principled stand only after he had nothing else to lose. Despite his whiteness, I still gave him side-eye.

But, you know, maybe I'm racist! Sometimes it's subconscious and you don't even realize it's happening. I try to call it as I see it, but I'm not perfect and it's possible I'm viewing this through some kind of cis/white myopic lens.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:08am

Thank you, Boq101, for doing good work with your high school students. I try to do the same with my college students so that they enter the industry with a sense of self-awareness and an unapologetic mindset. It’s hard to shake them out of that people-pleasing way of thinking. Theatre isn’t meant to serve only Broadway message boards; theatre is more than just Broadway.

Thank you, Bettyboy72. I applaud your entire post. This is much bigger than just getting Broadway back. Well, getting Broadway back is also part of the problem: Leadership is clueless and reckless and doesn’t actually care about its members.

Updated On: 4/15/21 at 11:08 AM

[Zion24]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:20am

its just mind boggling to me that even though the vast majority of the people on this board AGREE about the substantive issues re need for change (and in this case, about the horrors of Rudin, which are NOT race-based at all?), that those still skeptical of the EFFICACY of Olivo's "stand" are still called racists. Its just exhausting. 

the notion that to continue to work on Broadway or in theater is a mark of lack of integrity is silly and not helpful. that isnt a defense of Rudin. 

[LarryD2]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:29am

Saying that Olivo is retired and has nothing to lose because she doesn't want to work is a misinterpretation and a cover. She never left the industry, and she continued to work consistently after she announced that she was taking a step back from her active theater career in New York. She opened HAMILTON in Chicago and did the show for a year, was in TICK TICK BOOM at Encores and FUN HOME at a regional theater in Wisconsin, did WEST SIDE STORY in Austria and CHESS in DC -- not to mention the pre-Broadway MOULIN ROUGE in Boston. That's a pretty busy schedule for a retired person.

[binau]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:30am

Well people here are questioning not just the efficacy but the integrity of her actions, which I assume is the greater point of contention. But in my opinion even if Karen’s reasons are not 100% sincere (though it could have been a sincere final straw in a whole list of other reasons), at least she has chosen a good way to leave by trying to get more publicity on this issue and I think that can only be a good thing.

I don’t think Karen leaving or staying or anyone else leaving or staying the business if they have their career and livelihood to lose is a problem anyway. What we need is the genuinely powerful and influential people who do not have much to lose to speak out and there are very few of them. The two that immediately come to mine are Bette Midler (especially) and maybe to a lesser extent as he isn’t exactly known in the general population, Stephen Sondheim. Maybe and especially Hugh Jackman too, actually.

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:31am

Please list the ways white Broadway stars have committed to anti-racism. Please list the ways they have also taken a stand against corruption. Please list the ways white Broadway message board posters are supporting those in the industry who are committed to activism and change.

If you notice, it’s usually the people of color and women who get the ball rolling. And it’s white men who give their opinions about it. (And yes, as others said, this happens a lot of other industries, too. Why is that? Why don’t people want to make a change?)

While Karen has a fallback job (as if that’s a bad thing for an actor!), she is getting a tremendous pay cut for not going back to her job on Broadway, where she is probably paid a healthy star salary. She is still making a sacrifice in ways, even if she doesn’t seem totally passionate about the job she just quit.

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:33am

Watch this space (and this video, tonight, at 6:30 eastern): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nj5K3O8a4LU&ab_channel=DavonWilliams

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:34am

HeyMrMusic said: "Please list the ways white Broadway stars have committed to anti-racism. Please list the ways they have also taken a stand against corruption. Please list the ways white Broadway message board posters are supporting those in the industry who are committed to activism and change.

If you notice, it’s usually the people of color and women who get the ball rolling. And it’s white men who give their opinions about it. (And yes, as others said, this happens a lot of other industries, too. Why is that? Why don’t people want to make a change?)

While Karen has a fallback job (as if that’s a bad thing for an actor!), she is getting a tremendous pay cut for not going back to her job on Broadway, where she is probably paid a healthy star salary. She is still making a sacrifice in ways, even if she doesn’t seem totally passionate about the job she just quit."

Girl, please. Calm down and take a seat. 

 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:39am

unclevictor said: "Girl, please. Calm down and take a seat."

I hope one day, you’ll find some way to use your powers for good. It’s a miracle I haven’t hit the block button yet. Please prove us all wrong.

[Philly Theater Girl]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:40am

HeyMrMusic said: "

Anyway, phew, this thread is exhausting. Nice job piling on the woman of color making a stand. If Aaron Tveit did this, you’d all be praising him."

This has nothing to do with her being a woman of color. Most of the people here seem to support her decision regardless of whether or not they agree with it. It's not for anyone here to question her motivation; i take her at her word. Let's not start the 'what if' scenarios by calling out her cast members. 

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:43am

Bettyboy72 said: "These threads have also made me realize that some of you are just interested in getting back to your sippy cups and signed window cards and aren’t really interested in any type of social justice. Actors are the trained animals you paid good money to see so they better shut up and perform in their “cushy” job. You are part of the problem. "
 

THANK YOU.

 

[raddersons]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:43am

Listen. All here for this kind of speaking up and speaking out. I hope this sparks a wave of other actors speaking up about this and doing similar actions. That being said... I can't deny that it is odd to boycott Rudin through show that he isn't even producing. 

[HeyMrMusic]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:46am

I think they’re speaking to Broadway as a whole in regards to the silence about Rudin, not their particular show. They’re stepping away from the Broadway industry. It might not be totally effective, but this is their way of speaking out about it and they’re asking why no one else is.

[ColorTheHours048]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:47am

raddersons said: "Listen. All here for this kind of speaking up and speaking out. I hope this sparks a wave of other actors speaking up about this and doing similar actions. That being said... I can't deny that it is odd to boycott Rudin through show that he isn't even producing."

It’s not just about Rudin though? They even said that in the Instagram video. This is just the tipping point; that something so easy to call out as “wrong” seems to be such a problem for some really high profile people with so much less to lose. Broadway has needed a reckoning long before we had a tangible monster to call out. He’s part of a larger systemic issue Karen is calling out, and has been calling out.

[Musical Master]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:50am

Oh for goodness sake! Let Karen Olivo make her own darn decisions, she's human after all.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:51am

HeyMrMusic said: "unclevictor said: "Girl, please. Calm down and take a seat."

I hope one day, you’ll find some way to use your powers for good. It’s a miracle I haven’t hit the block button yet. Please prove us all wrong."

if I only had powers... 

you’re exhausting, and some of these posts are exhausting! Again, like I said earlier, good for Karen for speaking up! Let’s all just take a breath for a moment

[poisonivy2]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:54am

I support Karen and think she's an amazing performer. I disagree with people who say you can't change things from the inside. You absolutely can. Think AOC, Stacey Abrams, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, even Joe Biden who is making quicker changes as POTUS than anyone expected. 

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 11:59am

raddersons, phrasing Olivo's decision as a reductive "boycotting Rudin" is pretty telling that you are clearly out of the loop.

[raddersons]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 12:03pm

LizzieCurry said: "raddersons, phrasing Olivo's decision as a reductive "boycotting Rudin" is pretty telling that you are clearly out of the loop."

Well hey, theater's been closed for over a year, can you blame me?

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 12:13pm

"But sadly the show won’t be harmed by her leaving. But it’s not her fault. Who can have chemistry with a brick wall."

Hahaha. SouthernCakes has slammed Aaron dozens of times saying he HATES his acting yet sees everything he is in. Hmm. He is a wanna be actor that never made it to Broadway (unlike Aaron) and apparently Aaron is perhaps around his same age or something because he has been slamming his career since he joined this website. As Jack says on Will and Grace regarding Matt Damon "He has my career!"

It's professional jealousy, nothing more, and it's absolutely delicious.

[unclevictor]

Posted: 4/15/21 at 12:42pm

Sutton Ross said: ""But sadly the show won’t be harmed by her leaving. But it’s not her fault. Who can have chemistry with a brick wall."

Hahaha. SouthernCakes has slammed Aaron dozens of times saying he HATES his acting yet sees everything he is in. Hmm. He is a wanna be actor that never made it to Broadway (unlike Aaron) and apparently Aaron is perhaps around his same age or something because he has been slamming his career since he joined this website. As Jack says on Will and Grace regarding Matt Damon "He has my career!"

It's professional jealousy, nothing more, and it's absolutely delicious."

Delicious, yes! I’m curious to know what Sutton Ross does for a living?