Reopen post-Rudin Worker Improvements - Page 4

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 2:29pm

How did they harass you? Honestly curious what is considered harassment. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 2:30pm

unclevictor said: 

I will write the book, but I’ve done something better. I have called out the abusers to their faces, i’vewent to stage managers, company managers, general managers, producers,I havefiledcountless complaints with unions, and in a few cases spoke with lawyers and even the police.Nothing has happened. It’s all taken seriously (at least in the moment)and then... nothing. Years ago I’ve must have filed 4harassment claims against an actor and instead of them getting fired, they got promoted. PROMOTED.
"

Just a hunch --- maybe the "problem" is you??

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 2:59pm

Ok, thank you to those who responded to my post for bringing the conversation back to other instances of abuse of power. Obviously, there are parallel environments occurring in Broadway productions. That is one issue that certainly needs to be addressed.

That leads me to the next question which was brought up here as well: what does this have to do with demands for diversity and representation? As was discussed when there was a "March on Broadway", why are demands for inclusion and representation being lumped in with stories of abuse? They are two separate issues and their arguments are getting conflated and muddled. So how is progress supposed to be made on either front?

If I am being specific, I am confused as to what Adrienne Warren's complaints and demands are. I watched the clip she posted of her speech during the other rally that was on May 1. She spoke of her demand to not have her racial identity taken from her and for companies of shows and students to be safe. Who was taking her racial identity from her? Where was she unsafe? What students are abused or are unsafe? What types of improvements could she be referring to that should be put in people's contracts?

The same could be asked of Karen Olivo. Try and follow her logic in her interview on Celia-Keenen Bolger's Playbill podcast. (I am unable to share a usable link). Why is any of this being linked to the Rudin story?

[JayElle]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 8:00pm

Playbill wrote in part: "That leads me to the next question which was brought up here as well: what does this have to do with demands for diversity and representation? .....why are demands for inclusion and representation being lumped in with stories of abuse?"

Why a limit on much needed changes throughout the Industry in multiple areas?  

A toxic work place generally discriminates as well.  News reports said Scott Rudin didn't like hiring black women. So now you have failing diversity and discrimination, along with him throwing potatoes & whatever else he had.  All of these items must be addressed. When you have diversity and discrimination, it spills over into pay treatment.  Employers who discriminate likely don't give top pay to those they don't really want around.  All issues intersect.

Updated On: 5/12/21 at 08:00 PM

[veronicamae]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 11:41pm

unclevictor said: "veronicamae said: "Then why don't you write the book since you know All The Things instead of incessantly screaming at everyone on this board that people need to "wake up." We only know what is made public, and from there, it's up to people to make their own decisions on what they want to do, from not buying a ticket to changing careers."

I will write the book, but I’ve done something better. I have called out the abusers to their faces, i’vewent to stage managers, company managers, general managers, producers,I havefiledcountless complaints with unions, and in a few cases spoke with lawyers and even the police.Nothing has happened. It’s all taken seriously (at least in the moment)and then... nothing. Years ago I’ve must have filed 4harassment claims against an actor and instead of them getting fired, they got promoted. PROMOTED."

You have named no names, so what do you want anyone here to do about it? 

Literally, what do you want the people on this message board to do? Unless your accused abusers are here to answer for their alleged offenses, what are you trying to do by constantly berating everyone for finding joy in the performing arts?

Please provide at least one actionable item that will have an impact of significance. Let me help you: the entire board never seeing a Broadway show again will not have an impact of significance.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 5/12/21 at 11:59pm

Please stop responding to a teenager who has nothing else to do but troll the hell out of this board 24 hours a day. They say absolutely nothing with their thousands of words on a daily basis and the only thing that will work is to stop acknowledging them and their nonsensical rants. They are not interested in any thing you have to say or answering questions with anything substantial. 

They are only looking for a reaction when they call the entire board white supremacists. They are not based in reality. Thank you. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/13/21 at 12:33am

JayElle said: "Why a limit on much needed changes throughout the Industry in multiple areas?

A toxic work place generally discriminatesas well. News reports said Scott Rudin didn't like hiring black women. So now you have failing diversity and discrimination, along with him throwing potatoes & whatever else he had. All of these items must be addressed. When you have diversity and discrimination, it spills over into pay treatment. Employers who discriminate likely don't give top pay to those they don't really want around. All issuesintersect."

The people who succeed in bringing about change are the people who have focus. You can't solve any of these diverse and terribly important problems with generalities. Many issues indeed intersect but in order to deal with them in an effective way (and that's the goal, right?) they have to be decoupled and addressed in detail, with specific articulation of the problem and the detailed development of a solution. Sadly, most of what we are seeing in this thread is a bunch of blather that refuses to focus. No focus=death. I hope you understand what I am saying and can decouple from the trolls and help decouple these complex issues. 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/13/21 at 11:28am

HogansHero said: "JayElle said: "Why a limit on much needed changes throughout the Industry in multiple areas?

A toxic work place generally discriminatesas well. News reports said Scott Rudin didn't like hiring black women. So now you have failing diversity and discrimination, along with him throwing potatoes & whatever else he had. All of these items must be addressed. When you have diversity and discrimination, it spills over into pay treatment. Employers who discriminate likely don't give top pay to those they don't really want around. All issuesintersect."

The people who succeed in bringing about change are the people who have focus. You can't solve any of these diverse and terribly important problems with generalities. Many issues indeed intersect but in order to deal with them in an effective way (and that's the goal, right?) they have to be decoupled and addressed in detail, with specific articulation of the problem and the detailed development of a solution. Sadly, most of what we are seeing in this thread is a bunch of blather that refuses to focus. No focus=death. I hope you understand what I am saying and can decouple from the trolls and help decouple these complex issues."

The stop blathering and be part of the solution.

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 5/13/21 at 11:57am

Hogan!!! We agree! How do ya like that? Look everyone, see what happens when the snarky rhetoric is turned down and thoughts and opinions can be shared calmly and respectfully? Two people on a message board who almost always disagree can find common ground! Alright Hogan, now how do ya feel about guns/abortion/voting rights/climate change/pay equality/infrastructure? Let's get a ticket together and run for office.

JayElle asked, "Why a limit on much needed changes throughout the Industry in multiple areas?" I'm not saying that there should be a limit at all on the changes and progress that should be made. What I was getting at with my two previous posts was what Hogan had just mentioned. How can these causes be taken seriously or even heard properly if they keep getting conflated and lost in the noise of outrage over other issues? I believe each issue you brought up should be addressed without any limit, but when they are all lumped together in response to one instance or one culprit, anger gets misdirected and demands start being made of the wrong groups. This is what leads to no progress being made because the wrong groups are being held accountable for responsibilities that they don't even have in the first place.

JayElle, your last post was the first time I had heard each argument for each issue described so specifically - including statements from Adrienne Warren and Karen Olivo. If you, or people who communicated like you, were part of the groups organizing these marches, rallies, and boycotts, maybe they would be taken more seriously or lead to actual results? Is the implication that the detail should be already understood and go without saying? I just think the lack of explanation and focus is why people react to things like cancel culture and boycotting with such confusion.

[JayElle]

Posted: 5/13/21 at 11:36pm

SouthernCakes said: "Hogan gets a weird power boner with this stuff. Just go with it."

LOL.  Touche. Aptly stated.

From a legal profession standpoint, most of what he says regarding workers, worker's rights, union obligations, pay, hostile environments, etc. have no basis in reality.  

 

[JayElle]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 12:06am

Playbill stated in part, "How can these causes be taken seriously or even heard properly if they keep getting conflated and lost in the noise of outrage over other issues? I believe each issue you brought up should be addressed without any limit, but when they are all lumped together in response to one instance or one culprit, anger gets misdirected and demands start being made of the wrong groups. "

All employment grievances are interconnected.. If you have a  "toxic environment," within that are subsets and sub-sub-sets. Some take high priority, e.g., throwing items at an employee. That is assault and/or battery. As a crime, it naturally takes priority.  Potential jail time,  $ damages, and termination often rectify that.  Now work on next block

If employer does that, it's highly likely other unlawful behaviors exist. So you start with pyramid top called "toxic,"  then create building blocks under it. One is called unpaid hrs, another discrimination, another harassment, etc. As one is addressed, it will often affect another block.  Approaching it in units eventually fixes the whole.  

But none can exist independent of others.  It's the classic: A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand. Assemble the army of unacceptable work issues and you have a stronger coalition to address the matter for all concerned.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 12:21am

JayElle said: "From alegal profession standpoint, most of what he says regarding workers, worker's rights, union obligations, pay, hostile environments, etc.have no basis in reality."

Jay, I have no idea what you are talking about. If you have some specific challenge to something I have said, state it and we can discuss it. Otherwise you are just joining the BS bandwagon on here and you seem to smart (from what I had read earlier) to fall for that. Color be surprised.

[JayElle]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 12:48am

"HogansHero said:  Jay, I have no idea what you are talking about."

Precisely my point. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 9:33am

JayElle said: ""HogansHero said: Jay, I have no idea what you are talking about."

Precisely my point."

As I suspected. You say things that make no sense and then you attack people for not understanding. Very Trumpian, Into the troll heap you go.

Posted: 5/14/21 at 10:28am

HogansHero said: "Into the troll heap you go."

Just to save you time, everyone is a troll except you.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 10:33am

Jaxson2 said: "When show latecomers arrive & must remainin the lobby, what worker stays with them? Not the ushers."

Incorrect. It's the ticket takers (who are members of local 306, the ushers union) who remain in the lobby, and in many cases third-party security is also present. They deal with latecomers. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 10:34am

ctorres23 said: "HogansHero said: "Into the troll heap you go."

Just to save you time, everyone is a troll except you."

On the contrary, there are very few trolls on this board. I think I can count the active trolls on this board on one hand. You are very much in the minority here. 

Posted: 5/14/21 at 10:51am

HogansHero said: "I think I can count the active trolls on this board on one hand."

Right, and an hour ago, JayElle was not a troll, but now they are.

Everyone is one contentious discussion away from being labeled a troll. It's like your defense mechanism.

[Playbill_Trash]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 11:53am

Ok, for some reason Hogan didn’t take me up on my offer to join my ticket and run for office.

Ctorres23, JayElle, you want in on this action? I call dibs on veep.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 1:58pm

Jaxson2 said: "Islander_fan said:

As for the bar staff, merch and those who deal with the assisted listening devices. They can’t be in their own union since they aren’t hired and employed by a private company who has a contract with Shubert, Nederlander etc. That company is called Show Trans.

As for the audio folks, it is not Show Trans. Any group of workers can unionize by law. How do you know if the companies don't have a contract?


Because I’ve worked around them for six years. They are not unionized because they are employed by a private company that only contracts out to the theatres and. Of one that has nor really sees the need to unionize.

 

And uncle victor, If you do write a book I am sure it would be a bestseller. Of course that would be a best seller in the category of fiction.  The amount of things you’re getting wrong and have zero knowledge of is beyond funny.

"

 

[Fosse76]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 2:11pm

Islander_fan said: "Because I’ve worked around them for six years. They are not unionized because they are employed by a private company that only contracts out to the theatres and. Of one that has nor really sees the need to unionize.

Whether a company is private or public is irrelevant as to whether or not employees can unionize. Merchandise, bar, and headset staff aren't in unions because those employees never unionized. It's actually that simple. 

 

[unclevictor]

Posted: 5/14/21 at 8:32pm

Islander_fan said: "Jaxson2 said: "Islander_fan said:

As for the bar staff, merch and those who deal with the assisted listening devices. They can’t be in their own union since they aren’t hired and employed by a private company who has a contract with Shubert, Nederlander etc. That company is called Show Trans.

As for the audio folks, it is not Show Trans. Any group of workers can unionize by law. How do you know if the companies don't have a contract?


Because I’ve worked around them for six years. They are not unionized because they are employed by a private company that only contracts out to the theatres and. Of one that has nor really sees the need to unionize.



And uncle victor, If you do write a book I am sure it would be a bestseller. Of course that would be a best seller in the category of fiction. The amount of things you’re getting wrong and have zero knowledge of is beyond funny.

Ive gotten nothing wrong.  YOU on the other hand, have gotten EVERYTHING wrong!  Hogan will now add u to his troll list, troll!

"

 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 5/15/21 at 3:08am

Why can’t all front of house staff unionize together?

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/15/21 at 7:58am

Fosse76 said: "Jaxson2 said: "When show latecomers arrive & must remainin the lobby, what worker stays with them? Not the ushers."

Incorrect. It's the ticket takers (who are members of local 306, the ushers union) who remain in the lobby, and in many cases third-party security is also present. They deal with latecomers."

Fossee, have you witnessed it?  In Rudin's shows where he was firm on no late entry, once doors closed, audio is sent to lobby to await latecomers who were given headsets upon request.Once they were okayed to go in, then the usher took them. But audio stayed in lobby with latecomers.  Latecomers were also given choice to see show again. So audio had to stay there to get headsets back in case patron decided to leave.

[Jaxson2]

Posted: 5/15/21 at 8:08am

SouthernCakes said: "Why can’t all front of house staff unionize together?"

That was my point Southern. The audio/merch staff could organize, but only if they want to lose their job. That is why they need an outside group ala existing union to be their voice to recruit. Otherwise the low paying company would just let the worker go under a different pretense.

The companies don't exist in theater without a written agreement. Producers get a cut of merchandise sales.