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[Pootie2]

Posted: 10/4/16 at 8:58pm

madbrian said: "The RNC has already tweeted declaring Pence the winner of the debate. 

"

I'm laughing so hard at this.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 10/4/16 at 10:53pm

That debate was beyond painful. 

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 7:23am

Good thing Clinton didn't need a home run from Kaine, because he disappointed.  If I'm critical of Trump's constant interruptions, then I'm similarly critical of Kaine.  Pence did a good job, but I think he did more of a good job for Pence 2020 than he did for Trump 2016.  Like most VP debates, this will most likely have no consequence.

[javero]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 7:50am

"Pence did a good job, but I think he did more of a good job for Pence 2020 than he did for Trump 2016."

I agree.  Kaine came across as Pence's bratty kid brother ratting him out for some alleged misdeed before mommy.  I'm unlikely to support to Pence in 2020 should he run, but will admit that there's a Ronald Reagan-like quality to him in terms of presentation and poise.  At one point, I wanted to park Kaine at the kid's table to allow the adults Elaine Quijano and Mike Pence to carry on. It's safe to assume that most viewers were likely aware of Man-Child Trump's transgressions long before last night's debate.  There was  absolutely nothing presidential about Tim Kaine's long lost Mean Girls' audition reel.

Updated On: 10/5/16 at 07:50 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 8:26am

 

Mike Pence is an unrepentant hater of gay people. Here's a sample.

 

He's like the oily married guy trolling to get his dick sucked on Craigslist and then going to his office and doing everything he can to get the "new little fag fired."

 

===

 

1. Supporting a constitutional amendment to ban marriage equality

In 2006, then-Rep. Pence told 100 of his fellow Republicans that he supported a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex weddings. Or as Pence put it, supported “God’s plan” in the face of the destruction of civilization. “Societal collapse was always brought about following an advent of the deterioration of marriage and family,” Pence complained.

2. Signed a bill to jail same-sex couples for applying for a marriage license

In an effort to make a bad idea even worse, as governor Pence signed a bill in 2013 that would jail same-sex couples in Indiana who applied for a marriage license. To prove that he wasn’t singling gay people out, Pence was also willing to jail marriage clerks who supplied a license or clergy who performed the wedding.

3. Wanted to divert funding from HIV prevention to conversion therapy

This one’s a two-fer: as a Congressional candidate in 2000, Pence wrapped two awful ideas into a single dreadful proposal. He wanted to ensure that “federal dollars were no longer being given to organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus.” So where should the money go? “Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior.” In other words, conversion therapy.

4. Opposed repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell

Longing for the good old days of complete invisibility for gay people, Pence predictably ignored the preponderance of evidence in support of repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell. Instead, Pence put himself out there as a leading opponent of the policy change. “There’s no question to mainstream homosexuality within active dutymilitary would have an impact on unit cohesion,” Pence argued, dismissing the repeal as “some liberal domestic social agenda.”

5. Complained about the passage of the Matthew Shepard Hate Crimes bill

In Pence’s ideal world, there would be zero protections. So it’s no surprise that he groused when the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes bill was signed into law in 2009. Pence didn’t cite legal objections. Instead, he complained that it advanced a “radical social agenda” and would have “a chilling effect on religious expression, from the pulpits, in our temples, in our mosques and in our churches.”

6. Served on the board of an antigay group

Pence has had a close relationship with the antigay leadership in his state. He served on the board of the Indiana Family Institute, an affiliate of Focus on the Family, which has been in the forefront of attacks on LGBT rights in the state, including a state constitutional amendment banning marriage equality. Thanks to its connections to Pence and other Republicans, IFI has been the recipient of funding for the state’s “Health Marriage” program. The former head of IFI has served as an aide to Pence both in Congress and the state house and as a campaign consultant.

7. Argued that passing ENDA would ban Bibles from the workplace

Of course, in Congress Pence voted against federal workplace protections. What was unique was his reasoning, which was that ENDA would discriminate against Christians. To comply with the law, Pence claimed, “the employer has to ban employees from having a Bible at the workplace for their break time, or displaying Bible verses.” Foreshadowing the Indiana religious liberty law, he went on: “We must stand for the right of every American to practice their faith according to the dictates of their conscience, whether it be in the public square or in the workplace.”

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 8:49am

Can someone lock Bill Clinton away until election day?

I doubt this will have much effect on the Presidential race but he just handed GOP Senators in tight races a gift.

Bill goes rogue again

The former president calls Obamacare 'the craziest thing in the world,' and it feels like we've been here before.

 http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/bill-clinton-rogue-obamacare-229119#ixzz4MDMZoWAV 
 

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 9:02am

Yeah, they should send Bill on vacation for the next five weeks.  This isn't that big a deal, but it's an unforced error.

[Steve C.]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 9:15am

Even though Tim Kaine probably had a few too many "cups of Starbucks", there's no denying that his facts were actually "facts" (and that's been checked and verified). However, with Pence, the "aww, shucks" demeanor and his head shaking in silence, his lack of any vocal support for Trump came through loud and clear.

Last night was the start of Pence "2.0.2.0". The Republican party is saying, "we know what's going on; we are going to get back on track; see how Presidential Mikey can look"? He's just aching to say, "There you go again". Is this what we have to look forward to?

Joey is totally right on everything posted about Pence's voting record, his Anti LGBTQ hatred and intolerance, his determined and repeated efforts to stop any kind of progress in Equality, transgender rights, opposing same-gender marriage, being very active to delay and deny any progressive and informed attitudes.

And let's not forget his record on Women's Rights. Pence actually signed a bill "forcing" mothers to have funeral services for unborn fetuses, no matter what circumstance affected the mother or the pregnancy. All fetal tissue must be interred or cremated. (What kind of a person wants to punish a parent or mother like this?) Oh yeah....these kind and caring "Pences". Thank God the bill was struck down by a Federal Judge as being unconstitutional.

http://www.vox.com/2016/7/14/12190380/mike-pence-trump-vice-president-abortion-funerals-fetuses

Heartless and homophobic and hate; no Matthew Shepard, no Women's Rights for her own body, no same-gender marriage or LGBTQ Equality. Yes, Pence 2.0 is gonna be great.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/mike-pences-blatant-anti-lgbt-extremism-completely-ignored-in-debate_b_12353590.html?


 

Updated On: 10/5/16 at 09:15 AM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 10:29am

As mentioned by others, I think they were on two separate missions, both of which succeeded.  Kaine was intent on getting Pence to defend Trump, which he couldn't do, and Pence was auditioning for 2020.  I did not like Kaine's style and the interruptions, and thought he seemed a little too hyped/eager  - but substantially he did a fantastic job.  The new ads are already out with Pence being contradicted by his or Trump's own words. I also think the split screen was no help to Pence.

Pence as a person is odious to me - but based on his performance last night, I expect him to be a strong candidate for the 2020 GOP nomination.

Kaine will be sitting VP.

On a site note, Trump is apparently in a bit of a snit that Pence did not defend him properly and performed better than he.

[javero]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 10:30am

I agree that Pence will likely be rewarded by the party in 2020 for his master class in obfuscation and bull****tery last night.  He moves to the top of the heap above Ted Cruz,former golden boy Marco Rubio, and yesterday's news John Kasich. After Mitt Romney lends him a tube of Just for Men Touch of Gray, he'll be the perfect top-of-the-ticket candidate for social conservatives when Hillary/Kaine will be at their most vulnerable should they be sworn in come Jan.  Pence can be packaged as a less offensive alternative to Ted Cruz.  I personally don't think shaite of Pence, but Paul Ryan was scheduling the next GOP circle jerk during last night's debate.

Updated On: 10/5/16 at 10:30 AM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 10:44am

I don't know about that last sentence, javero.  Paul Ryan very obviously has himself penciled in for the nomination in 2020.  If anything, Pence's performance last night should worry him, as Ryan's nomination will no longer be as much of a sure thing. 

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 10:50am

With respect to the GOP in 2020, don't forget Nikki Haley.  She is term-limited, and is a likely contender for 2020;

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 10:57am

 

Paul Ryan was never a sure thing. He is detested by the right wing of the GOP and the Trump fanatics as an "establishment Republican"--which they hate as much as they hate progressives.

I don't think Nikki Haley has enough charisma to last through the primary process.

As much as we hate him, Mike Pence became the GOP front runner for 2020 last night.

And Hillary will cream him.

 

[javero]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:04am

@adamgreer, I see Ryan as more a king-maker than king but am open to the idea that he's really interested in becoming POTUS.  I give the edge to Pence only because he's a sitting Rust Belt governor who'll be able to make the case that Obama and Hillary's lack of executive experience is a manifest liability.

@madbrian, Nikki Haley's prospects are not lost on me.  A Pence/Haley or Haley/Pence ticket in 2020 is not outside the realm of possibility.  I'd never vote for ticket either way but I imagine Hillary's re-election being a huge challenge unless there's a major up-tick in job creation in regions like the Rust Belt and the Old South, and she's Thatcher-like in dealing with Putin, Assad, Kim Jong-un, and ISIL.

This is not a popular opinion in these parts, but as POTUS Hillary will have to tack just right of Obama.  Putin will force her hand.

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:06am

It will be fascinating to see how Trump handles losing this election, and his behavior may impact the GOP for years to come.  In 2020, will they be fighting for his endorsement, or running from him?  The Dems need to make an albatross.

[Kad]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:10am

If Pence's debate strategy was indication, they're just gonna pretend it didn't happen.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:11am

What's to stop Trump coming back in 2020? I know he'll be 74, but even if (when) he loses, he's hardly likely to step out of the picture gracefully.

Updated On: 10/5/16 at 11:11 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:20am

I imagine he'll kill off any support when he tries to sue the people of  America after he loses the election.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 11:21am

Pence was not asked last night about his LGBTQ record, including the well-publicized and disastrous Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

It was as if no one, including Kaine, cared.

All the more disheartening given that so many laud Pence for his debate performance, particularly as it relates to a 2020 run.

He needed to be confronted on his record all around.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/10/mike-pence-isnt-boring-hes-one-americas-most-extreme-governors

Updated On: 10/5/16 at 11:21 AM

[theaterdrew]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 1:21pm

I'm suspecting a strategy not to attack Pence much, luring him into running in 2020 and then whacking him with his abysmal record and hateful rhetoric.  The Clinton camp is pretty confident that Pence is not going to change the direction of the campaign, so they kept the focus on the top of the ticket.

[madbrian]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 1:25pm

The Clinton campaign already has an ad calling out all Pence's lies in the debate.

http://www.salon.com/2016/10/05/watch-new-clinton-ad-demolishes-every-mike-pence-lie-from-vp-debate/

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 2:11pm

A behavioral psychologist should study Pence's head shaking.  It was bizarre and seemingly a disapproval of Trump's own words.  

Kaine was definitely the most interesting of the 4 debaters. 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 2:19pm

Let's just hope Clinton gets to elect 2 or more to the SCOTUS before 2020. 

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 2:33pm

Ginsberg will retire. Maybe Thomas will retire? Seems rather bored on the Court. 

[South Florida]

Posted: 10/5/16 at 2:55pm

"As much as we hate him, Mike Pence became the GOP front runner for 2020 last night.

And Hillary will cream him."

Was Gene in Brigadoon?