Crash's Upset- Page 2
Crash's Upset
#25re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:36pm
No, Jane, I'm saying that maybe people just sort of tip the proverbial scales at their convenience; when it looked like Brokeback had a huge shot at the win (and an all sorts of past incidences of which I'm unaware, I'm sure -- I hardly pay much attention to Hollywood to be honest), Hollywood was so liberal and it was so great. But now that Brokeback's lost the Oscar, oh, wait, maybe Hollywood's oh-so homophobic after all! I think maybe it's still... ambiguous (for lack of a better term) enough that people can use terminologies to their convenience for feelings of triumph and for those of feeling betrayed. Making what you will, I suppose. And that maybe nothing has changed. Hollywood hasn't suddenly become drastically less liberal. At least overnight, like I feel like some of the argument holds.
ETA --
just becuase one movie that delt with gay themes got best picture that homophobia would disapear in a snap?
This is a circular can of worms, but I have to wonder how many people truly, literally thought that. I think people hold that it would've been a big step in the right direction, but even more than that, a lot of the heartbreak here is that now it looks to some like this... liberalization of sorts may have backtracked.
#26re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:40pmemcee-I'm still confused after reading your post. Is Hollywood liberal or isn't it? Notwithstanding what people WANT it to be at the moment. I think it's universally accepted as a liberal community.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#27re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:41pm
Thank you so much, priest, for posting that. I was going to post the same thing. Insightful, honest, and direct. I agree with everything he says, including the accusations about the film's loss. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
I'm getting tired of people trying to pretend that Crash was some terrible film unworthy of even being in the running.
I'm not sure if you're referring to the original article, but it never said anything really bad about Crash.
NYadgal
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/18/04
#28re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:42pmThe other explanation that makes sense is that the industry supported a different film because it thought it was a better film.
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#29re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:42pm
I edited for clarity, I'm sorry for the confusion.
I mean to say that some of the reactions to this lead me to believe that people think Hollywood has suddenly become tons less liberal than it was like... the day before the Oscars. I think Hollywood's becoming quite liberal, personally, though I know I'm hardly the best judge, but my point in the posts I made was that I don't think anything has changed so drastically in this short period of time between thinking Brokeback would win and seeing it lose.
Kringas
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/27/05
#30re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:43pm
The other explanation that makes sense is that the industry supported a different film because it thought it was a better film.
Silly woman. Where would you ever get a thought like that? That's like saying some gay people didn't like Brokeback Mountain!
"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey
NYadgal
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/18/04
#31re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:44pmI forgot. But, then, I'm a homophobe and a bigot, so what do I know?
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#32re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:45pm
The major films of the year that were honored at the oscars with nominations were Brokeback Mountain, Crash, Munich, Capote, Good Night and Good Luck, The Constant Gardner, Syriana, etc.
How exactly is Hollywood this backward conservative place again?
-Anyone want to turn anarchist with me?"Bless you and all who know you, oh wise and penguined one." ~YouWantItWhen????
#33re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:47pm
The other explanation that makes sense is that the industry supported a different film because it thought it was a better film.
Judging from most of the spot-on points that the article brought up (and even points that it didn't), I just don't think that's possible. First of all, it won the PGA, DGA,and WGA. Not to mention the fact that some (and, apparantly, many) voters simply refused to see the film. Top that with Lions Gate's unprecedented marketing campaign, you have a win for Crash
I said it several weeks ago: If Brokeback doesn't win, it wouldn't be an issue of people not liking it.
Updated On: 3/6/06 at 11:47 PM
#34re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:47pm
and i'ma bad homo to addy cus i hated it lord
i wonder if march of the penguins didnt win if everyone would say the acedemy was penguinphobic
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NYadgal
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/18/04
#35re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:48pm
"Top that with Lions Gate's unprecedented marketing campaign, you have a win for Crash"
...so, there's another explanation that makes sense?
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#36re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:48pm
i honestly don't see this as hollywood being homophobic. i mean come on, look at all the buzz that was around brokeback when it first came out. everyone said it was amazing. and it was the front runner. but i honestly don't think it came down to who stands where on what issue. yes, it was a huge year for current social issues. it all deals with realistic issues, whether it be racial prejudice, homosexuality, or transgender (is that term right?). i do think it comes down to what was a better movie. crash came out so long ago compared to the other nominated films its tough to compare the buzz around them.
brokeback came later and it was talked about so much because its a mainstream movie with mainstream actors portraying characters that audiences are not used to seeing. it is an excellent movie in that the actors really put a lot into it and made you feel for them. (i praise michelle williams way too much for this.) you really do get sucked into it because it is something that could really happen.
when crash first came out on dvd, everyone that saw it was saying to go rent it because it was a GREAT MOVIE. they loved it and thought it was worth seeing. it has the action. it has a huge cast. it has realistic issues (although i wont lie... i think it was a little more exaggerated... but hey, its a movie). it has the huge twist that brings all of the characters together. it was a well made film.
again, both are great movies, but i think it really comes down to which was better. for me, brokeback was good, but felt so long and drawn out. that's why i wasn't big on it winning. but that's not saying i wouldnt have been happy to see it win. i just felt crash was more appealing in that there was so much more going on.
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand i'm done... whether it makes sense or not!
::bust a move::
#37re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:49pmHow do we know how many, if any, academy members did not see the film? Especially a film as controversial as BBM.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#38re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:49pmAnd were any of the nominated films worthy of "Best Picture"?
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#39re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:50pm
...so, there's another explanation that makes sense?
Had the Academy voters done what they should have done, seen all the nominated films (which is something that I don't believe they always do), then I think the film would have probably won with no problem. That's all I'm saying.
And were any of the nominated films worthy of "Best Picture"?
Well, yes.
ETA: How do we know how many, if any, academy members did not see the film? Especially a film as controversial as BBM.
Tony Curtis has said that he, and many other voters that he knew, refused to see the film. If more than a couple people shared this sentiment, then that probably ended up as a big problem.
Updated On: 3/6/06 at 11:50 PM
#40re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:54pmi think the way we feel about these films isn't necessarily the way the academy feels about them, so i don't think we can say that if they saw all of the films, they would go for brokeback
::bust a move::
#41re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:54pm
But these debates are often coming with the wrongly assumed notion that all Crash lovers hated Brokeback and that all Brokeback lovers hated Crash. I did not hate Brokeback. I just liked Crash more. A LOT more.
Why is THIS not a legitimate argument for the Academy? Why is "it was homophobia!" the only valid reason? That's BS!
NYadgal
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/18/04
#42re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:54pm
The inner workings of the industry aren't quite that simple, 86...
The statement that the only explanation the movie didn't win is because it's gay (from the original article) is absurd. There are lots of reasons why a movie might or might now win an award.
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#43re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:54pmI can believe that some academy members fail to watch every single dvd that they are sent. However, you'll have a hard time convincing me that lots of them did not watch BBM, THE most talked about film in ages. I don't buy it. Especially in a community like Hollywood.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#44re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:54pm
Jane2 asks: "I've always heard and seen evidence of the Hollywood community's notorious liberal agenda all these years. We all know that a good portion of any creative community is made up largely of gays, also. Soo-my question is-when did this change? when did the Hollywood community and its academy voters become homophobic?"
I'll take a stab - though the article StickToPriest posts alludes to the answer, which is that Hollywood isn't actually that liberal (certainly not as Clooney would want you to think). Forrest Gump and Braveheart have best picture wins (Braveheart - that's another stinker - openly homophobic too) - both have very conservative politics. Clint Eastwood is an icon, as was John Wayne. Hollywood is a place that is about making money, not being liberal. I do think that artists (actors) tend to be more liberal if only because it coincides with the need for freedom to perform their craft (for instance, the freedom a Jake G. needed to play a gay cowboy).
More to the point, the Hollywood "community" and the Academy are two different things. The community certainly includes many gay men and women. But the academy tends to be older, whiter, straighter and much more male. This may be changing, but change is slow (Tony Curtis is a member, and he refused to see BBM). And many self-described liberal white guys might never say they wouldn't see a movie with two handsome young men having sex, but frankly it's likely that many did not, or could not warm to the film for that reason.
Finally, the idea that Hollywood is some liberal bastian, just like the idea that the media is liberal, is a talking point that conservative media outlets have been hammering into the public consciousness since the early 70s, starting with Hanoi Jane (who was as much Hollywood as Bing Crosby and then Arnold Schwartenagger). Now whenever they need someone to pound on to rile their base, Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh pull out the "liberal" Hollywood or media myth and beat people up with it.
BTW - did you know that last Christmas there was a war on Christmas?
#45re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:55pm
"Why is THIS not a legitimate argument for the Academy? Why is "it was homophobia!" the only valid reason? That's BS!"
jerby, i love you
::bust a move::
#46re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:56pm
zepka-
I'm just making that guess based on the amount of acclaim and prizes the film has received. Compared with the enormous number of prizes and acclaim the film received, and Oscar history (in which, most of the time, the BP frontrunner usually wins), that's a damn good guess.
Updated On: 3/6/06 at 11:56 PM
#47re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:57pm
"I did not hate Brokeback. I just liked Crash more. A LOT more."
You and a lot of other people. Ebert and Roeper on their "If we picked the Winners" show both said that they would have chosen Crash to win Best Picture. I just don't see a conspiracy here.
"Smart! And into all those exotic mystiques -- The Kama Sutra and Chinese techniques. I hear she knows more than seventy-five. Call me tomorrow if you're still alive!"
#48re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/6/06 at 11:58pm
it doesn't always have to follow the rules. every year is different with different films created (except for the LOTR era :-P)
pab - there is no conspiracy. whatever happened to "let the best [film] win"
::bust a move::
Updated On: 3/6/06 at 11:58 PM
kissmycookie
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/21/04
#49re: I'm Sorry to Do This, Really, But I Think This is So Well-Written and H
Posted: 3/7/06 at 12:00am86: One could say the same for the Screen Actors' Guild awards... As their best ensemble award usually predicts the best picture. And it did not go to BM. It went to Crash.
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