Dreamgirls - The Flaws

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 10:25am

***Warning: This thread contains spoilers.***

Overall, I think Dreamgirls is a great movie. However, I have a few quibbles.

The dates in the movie seem a bit off. I'm assuming that the riot scene is illustrating the Detroit riots in 1967. Effie says later that Magic is 9 years old (changed from the stage show where she says "Almost 7"). That puts the disco "One Night Only" in 1976. The passage of time doesn't seem to be reality. The movie completely ignores the blaxploitation genre (maybe on purpose). Disco was being established in the early 70s and by 1976 was in full swing. It seems like Curtis is behind the music style rather than leading it.

Jimmy Early's funeral is held while it's snowing. This may be a debateable point, but many funerals are put off in the winter because the ground is frozen and they can't dig a grave.

I didn't feel there was enough tension in the Deena character. I didn't believe that she was headed for superstar status like Diana Ross. Unfortunately, one of the places they took out her drive was by dropping her part in "When I First Saw You." We really only see the emphasis on moving her from head of the trio to superstar by having her picture plastered all over the place. And we don't see the Machiavellian nature of Curtis as much as we should. To me, "Listen" sort of comes out of nowhere. The Deena/Curtis relationship needed a stronger lead up to that song.

The Deena/Effie reunion scene needed stronger writing. This is a defining moment in the show for both of their characters. In the stage version, there is a nice bit of music to heighten this moment. (Of course, they couldn't sing "I saw you at your Mama's funeral", but the theme from the music of "I kept wondering..." should have been reflected in the dialogue). The movie could have shortened or dropped Deena's poolside meeting in favor of strengthening the reunion scene.

The final costume for Effie is a bad choice. A sleeveless dress for Jennifer Hudson at this point in the show was wrong. Hudson's arms are not her best feature and the costume should have made her look more glamorous.

The final moment of Curtis standing in the aisle looking at Magic was awkward. The closeups moving from the Dreams, to Curtis, to Magic were trying to say too much.

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 10:54am

Some of my quibs:

Deena and (really the other girls; but mostly Deena) simple are TOO GOOD, TOO SOON. Look at their faces in the second half of "Fake Your Way to the Top," she is in full Destiny's Child mode, selling that #. I don't see the slow progression leading to the number Dreamgirls.

In "Steppin' to the Bad Side" the tamborines come out of nowhere...i think it's bad editing. (BTW at this point in the movie I have no idea why Deena is not doing a solo record; she is again TOO GOOD...she definitely outshines Effie on that stage).

The above might explain and contradict this problem. I liked how in the stage show the Dreams slowly become more famous through the 2nd part of Act 1. From Dreamgirls on to Love Love You, they are American stars, but it seems that in Act 2, they are now Int'l Superstars. In the movie, they sing Dreamgirls, and in the next scene they are singing with the Beatles...a bit too disconnected.

I wish they had cut family; I was trying to think as to reasons why some SUNG scenes were kept and I thought I had cracked the case. Family and Effie's dismissal take place on a stage...however this does not explain "When I First Saw You" which should have been MORE...the photo shoot was laughable and the love scene was awkward. (maybe some wedding scenes or something to establish that they were in fact in love).

Not sure if One Night Only was supposed to be rushed; bec. they where competing with Effie's record, but that # with the boys was just sloppy and I don't think something "curtis" who cannot stand a bad curl on his wive's head, would have approved.

The ending was just so rushed...I think perhaps Effie had the same Dreams costume as the other girls (she used to on the website), but her wig was gross. They may have reshot it with the diff. dress.

Updated On: 12/29/06 at 10:54 AM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 10:54am

I thought the meeting by the pool was necessary to set up Deena's need for freedom.

I have never heard of putting off a funeral because of frozen ground, but I was raised in the south, so it was never THAT cold.

I agree that the reunion was too easy coming. Taking Curtis out of the equation was not enough to solve the blow up. There were a lot of hateful words between Deena and Effie.

I agree about the final costume.

The ending scene was overkill. The cutting back and forth was just silly. Curtis could have seen the child from the balcony and it would have been fine. The final scene should have been about the Dreams, not Curtis.

I thought Eddie was good, but parts of his performance I found myself waiting for him to sing about getting in a hot tub. It made me laugh, but you never forget that it's Eddie Murphey. Beyonce blew me away. I have never liked her, but I loved her in this. She was stunning on screen.

If Diana Ross was pissed about the stage version of this show she must be LIVID about the movie.

Updated On: 12/29/06 at 10:54 AM

[soapguy17]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:00am

Well, the movie made Deena's character look a little better than the play did.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:06am

It really played up the Deena/Diana similarities.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:14am

I agree about the ending. It took focus away from the main point of the scene, which was the reunited Dreams. And I hated that waving thing. I know it's a musical but that waving thing with the whole audience was so cheesy.

And what was that dead animal on John Lithgow's head?

[soapguy17]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:15am

Oh, I wouldn't know. I wasn't alive in the disco age. But, did the other original supreme say that Diana had more to do with Flo leaving than Deena had to do with Effie being fired.
____________________________

The Michael Jackson look-a-like waiting for Deena outside of her room made me laugh.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:17am

"In "Steppin' to the Bad Side" the tamborines come out of nowhere...i think it's bad editing."

I noticed that as well.

"however this does not explain "When I First Saw You" which should have been MORE"

I agree with that. That whole sequence was glossed over.

"I thought the meeting by the pool was necessary to set up Deena's need for freedom."

I agree in theory, but the scene was poorly written and acted. By the time we got done laughing at John Lithgow, we missed the point. I don't feel Beyonce was able to sustain the independent superstar in this scene. It was an awkward scene.

"I agree that the reunion was too easy coming. Taking Curtis out of the equation was not enough to solve the blow up. There were a lot of hateful words between Deena and Effie."

Not only that, but Deena and Effie were childhood friends. There was a lot of history in their relationship prior to the blow up.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:20am

I think the reunion scene was heavily edited. I saw a behind the scenes thing on The Site That Dare Not Speak Its Name and there was a short snippet where Deena says, "You know how many times I wondered about my girl, Effie. How is she feeling. Is she all right? Are you all right?" "I'm happy now, Deena." Don't know if that helps at all.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:21am

"But, did the other original supreme say that Diana had more to do with Flo leaving than Deena had to do with Effie being fired."

I think some of it had to do with Flo having a voice. I read something one time that said when they were recording, Flo had to stand far away from the mike because her voice was so powerful compared with the others. So part of her exit was the fact that her voice didn't fit in with the sound Motown was trying to fashion in The Supremes.

[Funny Face]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 11:50am

It really played up the Deena/Diana similarities.

You think so? I feel Deena's character in the film is what greatly removed it from Diana Ross and the Supremes. Deena is way more sympathetic and likable than Diana Ross ever was.

I actually do agree that Effie and Deena's reunion could've been beefed up some, but I feel the final scene made up for that and was very rewarding. It was a little bit cheesy, but I cried like a baby.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 12:23pm

I know everyone is gushing over Eddie Murphy but in the screening I was in the audience was laughing at him when he wasn't trying to be funny. His affected speech reminded me of about 5 SNL characters and I wasn't moved by him at all.

On the other hand, I thought Beyonce was fantastic, despite alot of bad things I had heard. I think she was a multi-layered Deena. I really like how the film kept the viewers seeing her as the "doll" and "product" that Curtis had fashioned her to be. She really had no voice in the film. I lost my s#@t during "Listen."

I also thought Anika was amazing and did alot with her supporting part as Lorelle.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 12:35pm

Ed Gonzalez on the film:

"When it premiered on Broadway in 1981, Dreamgirls held a mirror up to Diana Ross's desperate careerism, from the time she replaced Florence Ballard as the lead singer of The Supremes during the height of the Civil Rights Movement to the dissolving of the group in the late '70s. The Henry Krieger and Tom Eyen musical understandably roused Ross's righteous indignation, but the singer was angry for the wrong reason: Though Dreamgirls accurately reflected the way Ross turned her back on her race, it was the show's pop banalities that truly shamed the legacy of The Supremes. The show's unfortunate irony is that it reflects but doesn't critique the pathology of The Dreamettes, pandering as The Supremes once did to a predominantly white audience that seems oblivious to the musical's cliché depiction of music-business politics and lazy expression of black life."


Slant Magazine Dreamgirls Review

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:19pm

I thought Deena was an underwritten role and I thought Beyonce was weak in the pool scene, a scene I thought was key. In the film Deena is merely a toy for Curtis to play with, her character is dull and you never get how she became a superstar. I thought the scene after "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going" where Deena is looking at the documentary on the Dreams should've featured an interview with Deena where she talks about growing up with Lorrell and Michelle, that way we'd see more of her taking some action.
I do have to say the movie just felt too rushed for me, as if Condon was just trying to go from musical number to musical number instead of taking time to make us care about the characters. Also, Condon was way too scared of the book songs and by the time "Family" starts it seems out of place. When I saw the film, the audience started laughing and I thought the fact he set it on a stage was a cop-out. The book songs did not feel organic, IMO, except for "It's All Over" and "And I Am Telling You I'm Not Going." I thought "Listen" should've been a book song instead just a song Deena is recording, would've Curtis let her record that song? The lyrics fit Deena's character so well but the context in which it was song felt wrong to me.
Also, there's a weird scene during "Steppin' to the Bad Side" where they are walking on an alley, singing apparently. It was so confusing. And I did notice the tambourines came out of nowhere.
I think Condon should've showed us Deena's and Effie's reunion from the beginning, from the moment they look at each other for the first time in nine years. In film there's so much that can be said with a close-up without using words, it felt like a wasted opportunity.

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:39pm

Yah, I also thought "Step in the Bad Side" was about paying off DJs, not gambling...not sure but I think the # was originally sung and perhaps the boxing/gambling stuff was added when the decision was made that the singing was too distracting.

I also think that Curtis would have cut Deena's listen many many times to correct her and take out the growls, etc.

[best12bars]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:41pm

Dreamgirls has no flaws. It's a perfect movie.

It's all of YOU who are flawed!!!!!

You FAILED to see this.

FAILED, I said!!!!

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:43pm

"In film there's so much that can be said with a close-up without using words, it felt like a wasted opportunity."

I agree with that. But I think Condon knew he was working with two inexperienced actresses and didn't want to chance it. There's also some weird cutting during "And I Am Telling You" and I think it's because Condon couldn't get what he wanted acting wise.

Another moment that was lost was right before "I Am Changing". Effie is standing outside of the building and there wasn't enough time to establish that she was scared about walking in. At first, I thought she was looking for an apartment.

[Marlothom]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:45pm

You know what else I miss, not sure if it's a flaw...but I think the whole, phone booth scene with Deena's mom, and Deena wanting to be a teacher and do something important, would have beefed up Deena's role.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:53pm

Rayandallthat's post addresses my feeling -- the inconsistent use of "book" song stylization. If I remember correctly, Curtis sings on camera only twice, one odd snippit of "Bad Side" when they semi-dance down a dark ally, and during "It's All Over." Either he never sings, or he sings into the camera. It was as if Condon tried to keep us from noticing.

"Family, "It's All Over--thru--Telling You" make up the only section that plays as a traditional musical, and the latter stands out as the most theatrically exciting on film as it did on stage. I would've welcomed more. There are little inserts of sung dialogue, but why not have more? If Condon had started the convention confidently at the top, we'd buy it. But "Family" is late and jarring.

I had a bigger structural quibble that harks back to Broadway. The show never really decides whose story is being dramatized. If it's Deena's, and a case is made in act 2 that it is, then why isn't she more active -- a true player -- in "It's All Over?" If her personal stakes -- and ambivalence at losing Effie-- were a part of that key beat, we'd feel it was HER story, as the 2nd act construction still supports. In a way, "It's All Over" too quickly despenses with Deena, when her ascendency is the core issue. The story suddenly becomes moreabout Curtis and Effie.

But DREAMGIRLS has always been oddly weighted, pushing Effie front and center with two of the better numbers, "Telling you" and "I Am Changing," and the film doesn't dispell that. "Listen" still sounds (only) like a top 40 Beyonce song to me, not a Deena number, and doesn't do much for the story arc, other than allow Beyonce to open up and do a an Effie/Jen. Krieger's a great tunesmith who seemed uninspired writing this melody; it doesn't land for me, but then, I found it lacking musical theater emotional weight. It's just a pop song, one we'll endure too many times on AMERICAN IDOL (I dread that).

And does anyone else think the movie veers eerily into VALLEY OF THE DOLLS territory once Deena and Curtis are in LA, and we see all the glitz and drugging inside glass houses? I kept expecting Neely O'Hara to wander in looking for a vodka. It's just so hard to film those lush Hollywood scene sequences without self-parody rearing its head.

But I still loved every minute.

Updated On: 12/29/06 at 01:53 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 1:58pm

You think so? I feel Deena's character in the film is what greatly removed it from Diana Ross and the Supremes. Deena is way more sympathetic and likable than Diana Ross ever was.

I guess I wasn't clear, I meant the costumes, makeup, the love of the little "Micheal" character. They made her look as much like Diana Ross as I think was possible. Maybe that is because they seemed to soften her up.

Updated On: 12/29/06 at 01:58 PM

[WalkOn]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 2:09pm

I loved the movie.

But my major problem was the constant dips in energy. The stage version starts high and keeps you up there. This is mostly acheieved by being almost completely sung through.

However, int he film's dialouge scenes we come crashing down to naturalism that was a little off putting. Only to be bumped up again for the next musical number.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 2:10pm

I've lived in Germany and the East and Midwest US and have NEVER in my lifetime heard of waiting for a funeral just because it's winter.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 2:14pm

I was a little put off when Deena ended every number with a dove lighting on her hand.

[AshleyBrownFan123]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 2:23pm

I really wish Anika did a little more in the film. Also, what did Jimmy's death have to do with anything except that he was failing so he took waaaaaay too many drugs and died?

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 12/29/06 at 2:51pm

In my opinion, the reason why the "final confrontation" of Deena and Effie was AS beefed up as the stage's version, is because Deena finds Effie's record in Curtis's desk drawer (as well as his journal) and she tips her off to it. In the show, Deena is kept completely out of the dark and it is CC who informs Effie (I assume).

Plus, Deena should have smacked the living hell out of Curtis before she walks out (in my humble opinion).