Interns fired en masse for protesting dress code - Page 2

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 5:09pm

Yes, questioning things. Sounds entitled to me.

Its cool when we did it years ago, but not now. I find our generations' need to insult millennials more annoying than millenials themselves. 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 5:25pm

I guess this makes me a lazy millennial, but I didn't think anything about what the interns did was so bad, or at least worthy of firing. Yes, it was certainly cringe-worthy that they didn't realize one employee was a vet, hence the need for different shoes, but it's not like they refused to do their jobs or anything like that.

 

They weren't very compassionate about the disabled vet. Their response to finding out why she had to wear different shoes because she lost a leg in service to our country was "if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument," meaning they still would have moved forward with their demands, but they would have included what I'm sure would be the pivotal reason why these self-entitled brats should get the same freedom to change their footwear as a wounded war vet who lost her leg defending this country. I mean, just because she lost a leg shouldn't give her the right to wear shoes that make her life a little easier and more comfortable, Right?

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 5:36pm

Again, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think they would have argued that the veteran *shouldn't* have had the right to wear comfortable shoes. 

"Seriously? They should expect that? Wow. You sound very millenial/entitled to me."

Well, feel free to think that, I guess. I just think that part of treating your employees like people includes paying them. If that makes me entitled, well, there are worse things to be. 

[binau]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 6:18pm

The millennial bashing here is so god damn cringeworthy. I absolutely love the older people I work with and assume that the views here aren't representative of most. By the way, I'm not sure what our demographics are here in terms of education and income but I'd take great pleasure in possibly being more successful than many of the 'millennial bashers' here. 

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 06:18 PM

[hork]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 6:52pm

If you're trying to defend your fellow millennials, you might want to try a different tack than bragging about how successful you are. Just a thought.

[Marianne2]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 7:32pm

I do see where this was a misguided thing to do. I guess I feel fortunate that I do work for a company that is pretty liberal with what we can wear. But, I would follow whatever was given wherever I work. I wonder if  there is more to this story. 

I'm actually not sure which group I belong in. Like I was born in 1984 and have seen things where I am considered a millennial, but others says I'm not. Same with generation Y. It's like nobody wants to accept us as anything. But, I see entitlement and bad behavior on both sides where I work. Like 1 person gets mad when she doesn't get the maximum amount of hours we are allowed to have as part timers. She has made some ridiculous claims about being entitled to that because she's always available versus others who have specific shifts they work for various reasons. Another one makes false claims about being the only 1 to work holidays, which I do end up working most. I've also seen people call out or leave early for stupid reasons. I guess I just care about getting through what I need to do and try to ignore the ridiculousness. But, I think entitlement is definitely more of a personal thing versus an entire generation.

[binau]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 9:06pm

hork said: "If you're trying to defend your fellow millennials, you might want to try a different tack than bragging about how successful you are. Just a thought.

 

"

Obviously I realise that it is not a method to facilitate positive relationships, and I love the irony of my typo. But I don't care to build positive relationships with people that express such ridiculous attitudes.

As I've gotten older I've begun to realise that most of the population is not well educated and not successful. They are the last people I think should be complaining that younger people are lazy or entitled. It is annoying to read people generalising about a whole generation when I have worked extremely hard my whole life.

I'm not convinced that there is any real evidence these stereotypes exist. In fact, as someone who works in an industry where 'thought leaders' try to profess that there are stark generational differences and the incoming generation of our workforce are motivated by different factors, some studies with actual data suggests that at a group level no such differences exist. People are people, they want the same things.

  

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 09:06 PM

[javero]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 9:25pm

At least Millenials didn't come on the heels of the Greatest Generation aka G.I. Generation.  Like many Boomers, I abhor war-mongering partly in reaction to the non-ending "war-talk" of elders that I consumed while growing up.  I really admired the men in my family of that generation but I'm not willing to canonize that group yet for my own reasons.  I vividly recall their tendencies toward misogyny, bigotry, and utter homophobia.  The word hyper-masculinity that surfaces on here from time to time is not an apt enough term to describe the zeitgeist that fomented the 1960s Civil Rights Movement and the Women's Liberation Movement a decade later.

Heck,sometimes I marvel at how easily dismissed claims are today that a candidate for the office of POTUS without a military background is unfit to be commander-in-chief, saving those from a few hard-right loons.

Flash back to 1993 on the eve of the swearing-in of The Other Clinton

and don't even get me started on Archie Bunker of All in the Family fame

The Coons are Coming

England is a Fag Country

Women's Liberation

Don't mean to boomer-man-splain things...just wanna provide some perspective.

 

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 09:25 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 9:33pm

The stereotype of millennials is not that they're lazy. It's that they have an unwarranted sense of entitlement. "This is what I want and I deserve to have it."

This group of people fit that stereotype. The article begins by saying the group wanted to "enact change". That sounds very noble until you look at the kind of change they wanted to enact. Their goal was very immature and self-serving.

The change they wanted to enact was not an idea to make the company more productive, or profitable. It was not a plan that would benefit their education, or help them become a better employee. Neither was this a matter of "questioning things". If they had asked a few questions before acting, they might have known why the employee was allowed an exemption from the dress code.

Their self-centeredness is mind boggling. The reasoning behind their petition is basically that of a six-year-old. "If she gets to wear flats, then I deserve to wear flats, too!" "It's not fair!"

The response when told why the veteran was allowed to wear flats is a slappable offense. "You can’t even tell," (What??? Do you feel you were tricked in some way?!?)  "and if we had known about this we would have factored it into our argument."   (What does that even mean?) How might you have twisted a veteran's disability into making an argument that you are selfishly entitled to what you want. I shudder to think...

Kudos to the one person who chose not to sign that petition. I bet he/she took some undeserved flack from the rest of that millennial bunch.

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 09:33 PM

[binau]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 9:38pm

What I also want to say about age is, I think it's often just a number. I hate age or generational discrimination. It's not just young people that are discriminated against, but older people too. Somehow there seems to be a 'perfect age' between say 40-50. As you get younger you're apparently naive and stupid. As you get older you're also apparently naive and stupid. I've encountered so many inspiring, knowledgeable, insightful people in all age ranges. Similarly, I've also encountered so many stupid and stubborn people in all age ranges. There is no point generalising across an entire age or generational bracket because people are so diverse (i.e., you are going to often be wrong when you look at individual cases) and you are drawing unnecessary barriers between groups of people that should get on well. 

For me, when I meet someone I think very highly of them if they are insightful (i.e., offer perspective that might challenge my thinking or introduce me to new ideas) and open to new ideas themselves (i.e., really carefully think about what they believe, why they believe it and think about whether they are potentially better ideas or ways of thinking). This is what should matter in my opinion - not age. 

"This group of people fit that stereotype. "

This is one group of people! How can you then generalise their behaviour to an entire generation of other people? In any case, while I agree that the way they went about responding to this particular rule might not have been the most effective way to create change, the actual idea wasn't a 'bad' one and is the way the workforce seems to be slowly moving towards as people realise that 'substance' over 'style' is what is actually important in the workforce. 

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 09:38 PM

[javero]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 9:51pm

In any enterprise or government agency or NGO there exists an organizational culture.  If an intern or employee's values don't align with the organizational culture, then the obvious choices are either: (1) adapt, or (2) work to enact changes to the extent practical, or (3) move the hell on by choice or force.  

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 10:41pm

qolbinau said: ""This group of people fit that stereotype. "
This is one group of people! How can you then generalise their behaviour to an entire generation of other people? "

I did not stereotype a generation based on this one group's behavior. I did the opposite. I singled out this group from the rest of its generation as fitting the stereotype.

If you want to be angry over the millennial stereotype, aim your anger at this bunch. They (and others like them) are the ones setting the examples that perpetrate the stereotype.

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 10:41 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 10:58pm

Well, feel free to think that, I guess. I just think that part of treating your employees like people includes paying them. If that makes me entitled, well, there are worse things to be. 

 But that wasn't my point. The part of your post that I   Quoted was my point. You think the employers should expect what they got which was all the interns complaining. In my advanced age and "successful" experience that sort of behavior is not and should not be what's expected.

"

 

Updated On: 7/2/16 at 10:58 PM

[binau]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 11:26pm

John Adams said: "qolbinau said: ""This group of people fit that stereotype. "
This is one group of people! How can you then generalise their behaviour to an entire generation of other people? "

I did not stereotype a generation based on this one group's behavior. I did the opposite. I singled out this group from the rest of its generation as fitting the stereotype.

If you want to be angry over the millennial stereotype, aim your anger at this bunch. They (and others like them) are the ones setting the examples that perpetrate the stereotype.

 

"

Yes I see your point, thank you. 

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 11:31pm

wonderfulwizard11 said: "I just think that part of treating your employees like people includes paying them. If that makes me entitled, well, there are worse things to be."

But these interns are NOT employees. They are interns. As dramamama pointed out, they are on par with student teachers. They are there to learn from, and get 'hands-on', practical experience with the people who actually ARE employees. If anything, they should be paying to be there. 

Interns that receive pay for being a student (even if their classroom is a work practicum classroom) should consider themselves lucky.

If the very best these interns could contribute to the company that was educating them was a self-serving petition regarding the dress code, then they absolutely did not prove their worth and deserved to be expelled from the program.

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/2/16 at 11:34pm

qolbinau said: "Yes I see your point, thank you."

I have mad respect for you right now, qolbinau!

 

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 12:26am

As a newspaper editor, I am fortunate to get a number of high school/college students as interns over the course of a year. In addition to journalism, I always hope my interns learn life lessons as well working with me.

In the case at hand, these interns got some very valuable life lessons. They learned to do their research on an issue, and to make sure they are right, before opening their mouths about it. They learned to ask questions, to look at all sides of an issue before drawing conclusions. They learned to show respect for their co-workers, and to communicate with them before complaining about them to the boss. And most importantly, they learned there are consequences to their actions.

While their "firing" may seem harsh, they are young, they will rebound, they will move on. This internship has taught them a lot, and if they take these things to heart, what they have learned will serve them well.  

[SNAFU]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 12:31am

John you are right, in some cases they SHOULD be paying to be there. I run a small studio where I use techniques and materials that are not taught in any Art college, they are techniques I have picked up with experimenting and working in the field for almost 40 years. I do bring in interns yet, I pay them just a bit more then minimum wage IF they are useful in working on a project we have in house. I have been told by almost all that what they have learned working under me was more worthwhile then many of their college courses. Internship is a very valuable learning experience and in cases like the one being discussed, learning to conform and to fit into a business situation. These kids deserved to be fired, it was a very important lesson for them. They need to know their place in the corporate structure. With knowledge, skills and time, they will advance, One does not come in with entry level skills and change an established milieu which has worked successfully and is the chosen way.

 As I was reading the article, I guessed the person dressed differently was allowed to for medical reasons. I think that comes from experience.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 12:56am

"But these interns are NOT employees. They are interns. As dramamama pointed out, they are on par with student teachers. They are there to learn from, and get 'hands-on', practical experience with the people who actually ARE employees. If anything, they should be paying to be there. 

Interns that receive pay for being a student (even if their classroom is a work practicum classroom) should consider themselves lucky."

I don't mean to be rude, but am genuinely curious- have you ever actually been an intern? This varies from profession to profession, of course, but there are many internships that essentially function as entry-level jobs- that was the case with the one I just concluded. I was paid for that work (though certainly far below anything resembling a living wage, and as such I still worked two other jobs just to make ends meet), and while I certainly did learn new skills, my being there was essential to the function of the company. So yes, there are things to learn (as I think there are in any new workplace), but at the end of the day interns are still working and providing a service. I can understand not paying interns a lot of ,money, to be sure, but I just don't buy the argument that someone who is providing labor for a company does not deserve any compensation in return. And while I can understand how the interns in this situation were out of line, I ultimately don't think any of their actions (as described in the article, of course) were worthy of the reaction they've received, nor do I think it means that all younger people deserve to be painted with a broad brush of laziness or entitlement. 

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 2:03am

1. I am not a Millenial.

2. I have severe issues what these interns did.

3. I am offended at what severalnofnyou think interns to be. They are no longer "learning experiences". Companies HAVE turned them into entry level positions. In MORE THAN one place, I have had business people and recruitment specialistis recommend that experience adult bread winners in their 30s and 40s take unpaid internships with major companies to get a foot in the door because companies may not take note of them otherwise inless they are high up the food chain. Internships were meant as learning experince, they often no longer are. 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 2:52am

and don't even get me started on Archie Bunker of All in the Family fame
 

You mean the character from a TV show that was a caricature of the hardline conservative that was to be laughed at, not with, played by a bigger Liberal than Rob Reiner?

[HorseTears]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 5:17am

Yawn.  Another AARP thread trying to extrapolate a larger trend from an isolated incident involving those dreaded MmmMMmmmmillennials? The plural of anecdote is not data, people.  But since we're painting with the broadest strokes...

 

[BroadwayNYC2]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 8:59am

Come on HorseTears, now you're just perpetuating stereotypes. All millenials can do is post memes and tweet and complain. Duh. 

[HorseTears]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 9:05am

LOL!  Ya got me!  

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/3/16 at 9:12am

wonderfulwizard11 said: "I don't mean to be rude, but am genuinely curious- have you ever actually been an intern?

Yes, and I also did a semester of student teaching my senior year of college. My internship came much later in life during summer break from teaching.

This varies from profession to profession, of course, but there are many internships that essentially function as entry-level jobs- that was the case with the one I just concluded.

Well, YES. That's the whole point of an internship - to function like an entry level position so the intern can get their feet wet, learn how the business/company functions, and get a 'real-world' learning experience. Internships are not meant to be simulations.

But you also listed an essential characteristic that differentiates an internship from a real, entry level position when you wrote, "...I just concluded". Your experience was not an entry level position. Entry level positions have no pre-defined end date.

I was paid for that work (though certainly far below anything resembling a living wage, and as such I still worked two other jobs just to make ends meet), and while I certainly did learn new skills, my being there was essential to the function of the company.

Maybe we have a disconnect regarding the meaning of the word, "essential" and its use in regards to "my being there". If your presence was "essential to the function of the company", they certainly must have shuttered their doors by now (because you are no longer there). Is that the case?

So yes, there are things to learn (as I think there are in any new workplace), but at the end of the day interns are still working and providing a service.

Yes, interns are working and providing a service, but the primary reason the company is providing and allowing them that opportunity, and even providing the intern a small stipend in return is for the betterment of the intern. Of course, the company benefits, too. Basically, they get a temp that they can abuse during the length of their internship, and it costs them less money than hiring a "real" temp. (I'm aware that companies can be abusive of the system.) The fact is though, that the purpose of an internship is to benefit the intern by a) providing a 'real-world' learning experience, and b) providing the intern with work experience they can put on their resume, so that they can then apply for an actual entry level job and not be turned away for lack of experience.

I can understand not paying interns a lot of ,money, to be sure, but I just don't buy the argument that someone who is providing labor for a company does not deserve any compensation in return.

The compensation interns receive in return is not monetary. Internships were not designed to be entry level jobs. If an intern expects to be monetarily compensated, why not just apply for a job instead of participating in an internship?

Could it be because without having practical experience on a resume, it's so incredibly difficult to get an interview? Maybe... just maybe, an internship provides professional references that are essential to the interview process, and may tip the scales in their favor of landing a job?

And while I can understand how the interns in this situation were out of line, I ultimately don't think any of their actions (as described in the article, of course) were worthy of the reaction they've received, nor do I think it means that all younger people deserve to be painted with a broad brush of laziness or entitlement."

I completely agree with you regarding the need for not "painting with a broad brush". As is the case with all stereotypes, they do not define an entire group. But again, this particular set of individuals exemplified the stereotype.

Updated On: 7/3/16 at 09:12 AM