LOOKING- Page 17
LOOKING
#400EMBARRASSED OF
Posted: 2/25/14 at 12:15am
I'm embarrassed of people who use "whence" without irony.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#401EMBARRASSED OF
Posted: 2/25/14 at 12:34amI only got around to watching the last episode tonight and one of the things that hasn't sat well with me was the condescending way the elder queens in the scene with Scott Bakula and Dom were treated by the script. They happened to be talking about Jose Sarria who was a really important figure in gay history and who died last Summer. It was handled like it was just some trivial thing and it actually wasn't. I don't know why the scriptwriters treated that story that way when you consider how embarrassed they should be of the stuff they foreground.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#402EMBARRASSED OF
Posted: 2/25/14 at 12:35am
"Embarassed of" makes perfect sense to me.
Embarassed for means there is no shame on your part.
Embarassed by means there is shame on your part.
Embarassed of is like a cross between the two, with no direct shame, but some by association.
Does that make any sense? Probably not.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#405LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 3:34am
I think "embarrassed of" is common poor grammar now, the same way so many people say (and this is one of my pet peeves) "should of" instead of should've/should have.
Namo said: "I only got around to watching the last episode tonight and one of the things that hasn't sat well with me was the condescending way the elder queens in the scene with Scott Bakula and Dom were treated by the script. They happened to be talking about Jose Sarria who was a really important figure in gay history and who died last Summer. It was handled like it was just some trivial thing and it actually wasn't. I don't know why the scriptwriters treated that story that way when you consider how embarrassed they should be of the stuff they foreground."
This was the one bit that did bug me. It seemed too obvious -- they were like the caricatured old wealthy gays in Tales of the City who Mouse has dinner with, but at least they fit the tone of that--they seemed to come out of nowhere in terms of this show.
#406LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 3:37amAs for the episode on the whole--I still really enjoyed it, but it did feel like suddenly they decided they have to ramp up the drama with only a few episodes left (and the trailer for the final two episodes played that up.) I don't really mind that, but it did feel like a big change in pace for the show to me (though maybe I'm just exaggerating, I dunno, it's been a long day.) I have to say I felt pretty happy at the end when Auggie suddenly looked kinda miserable when Frank seemed to be getting so into being ****ed by the escort...
#407LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 3:41am
Loved this ep. I thought they rather seemlessly reintegrated the ensemble--what better place to do that than Dolores Park? For a supposedly "boring" show, they sure do cover a lot of interesting dynamics in under 30 mins--from age/generational divides to socio-economic clashes. It's the latter that I think is the most interesting thus far. After last week's dream-like lost weekend, I am really pulling for Patrick and Ritchie. Sure, they have very different backgrounds and lifestyles, but I think they could both be positive influences in each others lives. Ritchie's directness and earnestness could help Patrick relax and be truly comfortable in his skin. While Ritchie is certainly the more self-aware of the two, I think that Patrick could help challenge Ritchie's expectations for the future and even help him confront some of the family issues that have been hinted at in prior eps. Will be very interesting to see if/when Patrick meets Ritichie's social circle.
Lots of interesting stuff going on in this ep--mainly about the characters having to confront whether what they now have is really what they were looking for all along.
Two side notes:
1 - Although Augustin's threesome with Frank and an escort he's secretly paying to spend time with felt all kinds of icky, I think it would very interesting if this show would eventually explore a healthy open/"monogamish" relationship. Not everything has to be heteronormative to be healthy and satisfying.
2- Dorris remains a delight. I think "You are so gay fired" was my favorite line.
#408LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 4:05am
I forgot to say that I did think the point of the scene Namo mentioned with the "older gays" was to show how clueless and out of touch Dom was with anything like gay politics (it may be a bit too facile, but I guess the implication is partly due to his obsession with getting bushy tail.)
Love Dorris--I didn't really clue in that she is having a relationship with that Bear-ish guy from the Folsom episode (at least I think so--she was making out with him in the background wasn't she?)
Horsey, I agree with you about the open relationship thing (particularly since when shows, *cough* Queer as Folk, have tried to cover that before they've done such an awful job) although I think it's pretty obvious that's not what they're going for with Auggie and Frank.
I admit, I cringed a bit in recognition of myself with Patrick. I am pretty sure I wouldn't have handled all the stuff with Richie so epically bad, from not introducing him to his boss as his bf and the whole shaming thing (at least at his age--ten years younger, I probably would have,) but unfortunately his "quick fix" idea of suddenly announcing he wants Richie to come to his sister's wedding in two weeks is exactly the kind of thing I tend to do in situations like that, and I always immediately after realize that it sounds insulting or desperate when announced just to prove that I genuinely am interested in someone.
#409LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 4:19am
While perhaps not a shocking insight, I liked this paragraph from avclub's review--I liked the episode more than them (they gave it a B, one of the lower ratings if not the lowest) but I agree some of the few issues I do have are symptomatic of having to do all this in just 8 episodes (as Horse, you pointed out, a lot actually does happen in each episode.)
"The problem with having eight episodes to tell this much story is that one week Patrick and Richie are showing every other romantic hero on television how it’s done and the next Patrick’s falling in their footsteps. After the disastrous picnic, Patrick tries to prove to Richie that he isn’t embarrassed of him. So this is what he says: “What are you doing two weeks from now?” He’s trying to invite Richie to his sister’s wedding, but Richie understandably isn’t having it. So he keeps kissing him. Notice the pattern yet? “Looking In The Mirror” is about people using sex to solve non-sexual problems. But they aren’t solving them. They’re distracting from them. When Dom kisses Lynn, it’s because that’s the kind of relationship he’s used to. Frank just wants to make Agustín feel better, but Agustín needs a different kind of support. Now Patrick is so desperate to keep Richie that he makes a big leap without considering if that’s what he wants, if that’s fair to Richie, and if that really addresses the issue at hand."
http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/looking-looking-in-the-mirror-201399
#410LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 6:27am
This episode pissed me off to no end.
On the one hand you have Augustine with his self-hating-wanna-be-white attitude putting down a Latino brother by accusing Patrick of slumming for going out with Ritchie.
and then you have Ritchie uttering the ignorant line: "boyfriend... and a WASP too.... score!" as if dating someone outside his race (read: white) makes him better.
I literally wanted to throw things at my television.
The whole episode was a cringe-fest.
My favorite character was Doris. More Doris please.
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 06:27 AM
#411LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 8:05am
and then you have Ritchie uttering the ignorant line: "boyfriend... and a WASP too.... score!" as if dating someone outside his race (read: white) makes him better.
You're not the first person to react negatively to that moment, but I'm a bit puzzled by such a strong reaction. Surely it's pretty apparent that in this playful moment, Richie's lengua was placed firmly in his cheek. (Is that offensive?) While Patrick certainly has some major questions about race (and I think, more tellingly, socio-economic differences) to work through, in the previous 5 episodes, I never got the impression that Richie was the least bit ashamed of his own background or culture or that he viewed WASP culture as truly superior to his own. In a way, I thought this comment was a friendly and pretty gentle bit of ribbing against a newly crowned boyfriend who, only a couple of episodes back, was clumsily honest about the novelty of dating of a Latino man for him.
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 08:05 AM
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#412LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 8:53am
Horsetears, I agree that Castillo played that line glibly (I said so above as well; that is if my post made it on to the thread... ah, I see it did) but it still wreaks of such ugliness and sends a message of perpetuating self-loathing that I would hope the writers would avoid (and I don't see any great coup in the line in terms of character or narrative which would counter the line's potent negativity).
Castillo wisely played it off the cuff, but it is still an irksome line. I found myself imagining how I would feel if that line came from a black character or a Jewish character and, so doing, envisioned myself having the same reaction, whether the character was male or female, gay or straight.
The show managed two decent-very good episodes (3 and 4) after two horrible ones (1 and 2) but after episode 5's return to bad writing, facile character development, and an annoying bitchfest of epically stereotypical stature (Augustine's line about slumming? really?), I'm done. As a whole, I find these guys not only unlikeable but dull as dirt.
I am so with Carlos on this one!
And I agree with Namo as well about the trite scene in which Dom was judged by the two money guys.
Of course there are a lot of mean gay men out there. But dramatizing gay men being mean to each other is tricky, it runs the same risks of dramatizing women being mean to each other. And I don't just mean political risks. I mean cliches, triteness, predictability. And above all obviousness.
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 08:53 AM
#413LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 9:24am
Yes, the line was said glibly, but I don't think it was as carelessly placed as you're suggesting. I think you could argue that Richie is gently mocking the idea that a WASPy high tech well educated boyfriend is an upgrade for a Latino hairdresser. And even while he's saying that--if that is what he's doing--he could also be unconsciously echoing what so many of us get indoctrinated with. Richie appears to be proud of his background and racial identity, but he also lives in a world in which gay men, from a young age, are flooded with imagery--from mainstream media, gay media and even pornography (which, I think plays a bigger role in shaping young men's sexual identity than we sometimes give it credit)--which still largely perpetuates the myth that the ideal form of male beauty and desirability is intrinsically tied to whiteness, heteronormativity and the highly visible accumulation of wealth.
I doubt Patrick is self-aware enough to fully realize this. I think Richie is, but that doesn't mean he isn's susceptible to those pressures. These are characters are real men, not perfect specimens of politically correct, social progressiveness. I'm kind of grateful that the writers trust us to be sophisticated enough to realize this on our own, rather than them getting all After School Special on us and explicitly lecturing us on the amount of progress our community still needs to make. Acknowledging these issues and having characters articulate--even slyly, cryptically or inartfully--that we are programmed to think one thing is "the norm" and that everything else exists outside of it, is not the same thing as approving that message. In fact, I'd argue that it's the opposite. It's a very subtle way to say, "hey, there's more than one path to love/happiness/fulfillment."
BTW, I'm not trying to argue you or anyone else into liking this show. We all have different sensibilities and connect with different things and there's far too much good tv out there to try to force something that isn't working for you. It's just a shame that, due to the lack of quality gay-themed scripted television and film, this one show has to be the stand-in for all of our expectations and hopes, when what it really wants to do is simply tell us a pretty quiet, subtle story about the intersecting lives of three or four friends in the Bay Area.
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 09:24 AM
henrikegerman
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/29/05
#414LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 9:50am
Horsetears, if your interpretation is correct, the show may have even fell further down in my estimation than it already has. Richie is by far the most interesting character in the show. And the most likable. Thus far I didn't see him as buying into the kind of indoctrination you are talking about . If that's who he is, then the show hasn't done anything to make that clear... at least before this and if that's the intro to it - it's a sledgehammer intro.
If that's not who he is, if he doesn't consciously buy into that but is not immune from it, than the script might have found a far more sensitive and interesting way of presenting it.
No matter how you slice it and who Richie is in terms of the issue of what a boyfriend like Patrick's demographics might mean for him, the line is a dramatic disaster. It's too "on the nose."
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 09:50 AM
#415LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 11:44am
I cannot, CANNOT bear another minute of Richie. He has taken the concept of mumblecore (already a thing that drives me up a stick sideways) to knew and terrifying levels. I can't understand what he's saying. Throughout the entire episode, I kept thinking of that Star Wars parody, Hardware Wars, where the Princess Leia character kept saying to the Chewbacca character, 'What are you saying? I don't understand what you're saying.'
The handling of the 'old queens' was the serious misstep. In a show that feels populated by very real people, the Statler and Waldorf of The Castro were jarring.
The 'WASP' line didn't bother me. I thought it was more a gentle dig at Patrick than any revealing bit of self-hatred on his part. But who can say? Maybe I heard it wrong because I CANNOT UNDERSTAND A WORD HE'S SAYING.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#416LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 11:51am
We have to get back together like Taylor and Burton (after the recent Veruca Salt imbroglio). You absolutely articulated what I couldn't nail about Richie and why he has to go and YES to the Hardware Wars reference. And of course, the fact that his "sexy" speaking voice, his "regular" speaking voice, and his "I'm just ****tin with ya" voice are EXACTLY the same so poor Jonathan and we have NO IDEA what emotion is behind that blank wooden face. Once he removes the facial hair I fully expect him to fade into the background.
I was surprised to see this season is only 8 half hour episodes. I guess HBO just isn't that into the show at all.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Updated On: 2/25/14 at 11:51 AM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
Roscoe
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#420LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 12:21pmIs Richie really so incomprehensible? I've never had any trouble understanding him.
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#424LOOKING
Posted: 2/25/14 at 12:58pmThe problem is, he delivers the joke line about the WASP and the serious line about "you want to throw me in with your family, it's too soon bro-heem" and the angry line after overhearing Augustin dishing about him like a typical scene in General Hospital where NOBODY ever seems to notice people hovering around to hear something they shouldn't until it's too late, in exactly the same tone.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Videos