Serious Discussion-Stress and Psych Disorders — Page 6

I also believe it's a personal decision, although I've debated this issue many times and I found that more people take the attitude of "how dare that person take their own life when so many people love him/her and will miss her". They also term that person as selfish in taking their life.

Selfish? I don't agree. While some call it cowardly to take your own life, I call it brave. A member of my immediate family tried several times to commit suicide (and is still living). I could understand her anguish, being severely mentally ill and never having a happy moment. Admittedly, I'm happy she was unsuccessful in her attempts. Things have improved over the years.

Here's where I make a differentiation. Those who are suffering from physical ailments in which they are in such pain or handicap that it makes living a hell on earth, I'm totally understanding in their decision. However, in the case of mental illness, severe depression, etc. I advocate trying everything to alleviate the mental anguish before making the decision to end it all. After that, if living is just too unbearable, then I think it's a personal decision to be respected instead of criticized for being selfish to others.

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Nevertheless, iflit, this is the precise topic that spawned that ugly comment on papa's part and it brings back the memory of his despicable behavior. I think both DG and bway knew when they made this today's topic that papalovesmambo considered it appropriate to defile my mother's death.

As I have said time and time again, this could be resolved very easily, with a public and sincere apology.

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Updated On: 1/23/06 at 10:37 AM

Tell that to papa.

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I agree: living wills are for sure the way to go. And also that this topic is going to hit home for a lot of people (myself included), so there should be a lot of sensitivity exercised in this debate. There's very little in life that's more difficult than being a family member and having to make one of these types of decisions.

The thing is, when we're discussing something like this you also have to take into account a person's faith as well as their concepts of what death is. For many people, it is a final thing; you go to heaven/hell, you turn to dust, etc. For Buddhists, and many followers of the ancient Indian traditions which accept the karma and re-birth theory, it is an opportunity to use your most subtle level of consciousness, transforming death, in a way, into a path of wisdom, which will then guarantee you a better life in the next round. Some people are taught that taking your own life under any circumstances would immediately guarantee you a place in Hell (except for when you're fighting for the sake of your religion, in which case *surprise!* it's okay -- but that's a whole different thread entirely) - and I can see why the family may not want to consider it. In the teaching of the latter (karma/re-birth believers), peace of mind at the time of death is the most important thing, and the job of the living is to ensure that this is the case, as much as it is possible. You're there to provide comfort, to be a solid presence, and to give them as much happiness and peace of mind as possible. Those things, they say, are the greatest gifts you can give. (This is my understanding based on my studies, but I should say that I'm not Buddhist. Nor am I a subscriber to any other religion, now.) That teaching doesn't automatically extend to meaning that it allows assisted suicide, of course. But what I take away from it is that: the focus should not be on what the family want, but on the well-being of the person who is suffering most.

Of course, if someone turns to you and say, "I've had enough," you have the responsibility, I think, to help them see whether there's another way. Ten years ago, a friend of mine - a doctor - told me a story about two of his patients who basically said those words. I don't remember the specifics (and if I do I shouldn't write them in anyway), but in this case, it meant taking away treatments, which he did. But with one of them, the thing was: the treatment was causing a lot of the pain, which led to the depression the patient was experiencing, which made him feel like he didn't want to go on, etc., and after all that was removed and the depression lifted, the patient's will to live returned. So I think you have to know how to reach the suffering person and see why he/she really feels that this is their only choice. But the choice should be there, and if they've made the choice with a clear mind, then it needs to be honored.

Well, those are my thoughts. G'night, everyone.

Updated On: 1/23/06 at 11:03 AM

I had a professor of a bioethics course who, on the first day of class, passed out living will forms to everyone im the class.

C - I advocate the use of Power of Attorney in addition to a Living Will. Generally, a Living Will is a statement of intention. A Power of Attorney allows an individual to appoint a representative to make decisions on their behalf in the event of mental or physical incapacity.

Everyone should check with their state laws to see if there are Health Care Attorney Statues. Illinois actually has a statutory form that is easily recognized by health care providers.

Illinois Legal Aid

Thanks for that info Brdlwyr...

I have not made my wishes known in writing but I have discussed it with all my family members.

Same goes for organ donation. Rip it all out. I won't need anything back until the resurrection and surely God can find all the bits which were me and put them back together. That's why He is who He is. Corneos, kidneys, liver, lungs,...take it all.

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my partner has power of attorney and knows my wishes. I also have a living will.
So many people are afraid to deal with these issues until too late, or forced to......

With two parents right at 80, my Mom will be 80 this year, my dad was 82 this month, I am keenly aware of what I may be called on to do. And while just the thought makes me want to start sobbing, I will honor their wishes.

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Your AG has a great packet with forms.
NY Planning Health Care

Brdlwyr - is there a similar form for Michigan, or where could I find out if there were one?

My parents absolutely refuse to talk about the topic of their death. This frustrates me to no end. I've asked if they had a living will sharing their wishes on their death, hinted at all the reasons to have one in place, and then just flat-out asked them to make one. At 41 and 43 with a teenager and a young child I think they just consider themselves too young to have to think about such things. It worries me, though - there are no custody wishes in place for my younger brother and sister, no documentation as to their wishes about life-saving measures... how does one approach such a subject with her parents? What is the right way to say, "Listen, like it or not, you're going to die, and as the oldest child, I have no idea what you want, WRITE IT DOWN ALREADY!"

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This is such a complicated topic. I am unwaiveringly in support of withdrawal of treatment in medical situations where life is being unduly prolonged by the miracles of modern medicine.

As some of you know, I struggled through this last fall with my mother. I was named as her health proxy and also had Power of Attorney. And as a nurse, I am more comfortable with end of life issues than are many people who have had less exposure to the process of dying.

I know in my heart and in my head that the decisions I made to withdraw treatment were made out of love, and were the very same decisions I would want someone to make for me. Even so, I have to admit that as secure as I am with my beliefs and motivations, while actually experiencing the process, there were times when I felt like I had blood on my hands.

In the end, it took far more strength to actively "pull the plug" (metaphorically speaking), than it would have taken to keep throwing medical miracles at each new problem, only to have the treatment create brand new problems and suffering.

My mom was a religious woman in a pretty conservative Christian denomination in a red state. Her minister, a man I thought might be inclined to find fault with my decisions, told me that he thought maybe her time had come and gone a couple weeks earlier, and that we were perhaps standing in the way of nature's (OK, so he said God...) intentions by going above and beyond.

I guess I've forgotten the point I was trying to make... but there's my own story which I have chosen to share. I'll get back to you all when I regain my focus.

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